Building a Computer Question...

[Godzilla Blitz]

I've been thinking about buying a new desktop, but some people are telling me that building is cheaper than buying and that I'll end up with a much better computer as well. They're also telling me that it isn't so hard to do.

I've been doing a little searching on the net, and I'm starting to agree: it looks like I could build an absolute top-of-the-line system for about $1500-$1700, which is what I was willing to spend to get a mid-range Dell. From reading some of the tutorials online, it doesn't look impossible to put the thing together either. It actually looks like the process has gotten simpler in the past couple of years (no more heat sink glue, parts that clip together easily, etc.).

I was wondering if anyone here might have some advice regarding building a computer. Was it easy to do? Worthwhile? Any big problems?

Was also wondering if anyone has some advice regarding good places to buy components, or any particular brands they liked.

I don't have to build on a tight budget, so I can spend for quality, but I'd like to keep everything in that $1500-$1700 range.

Any advice would be appreciated!

[cartman]

Yep, it's not really rocket science anymore. The cases come apart easily, allowing the parts to be mounted with almost no effort.

Since this is your first time, I'd recommened picking up a book on building computers, or invite a friend over who's built a computer before.

I've found one of the best places to purchase parts online is http://www.newegg.com I've had no problems ordering from them before, and I've built a couple of systems with parts bought from them.

I'm sure there will be others chiming in. Good luck!

[BucDawg40]

Here is another vote for Newegg.com.

I build many systems, and I get a lot of parts from them.

Here is a great case for a good price (with free shipping):

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...ion=amb%2C3700

[Kam]

I third Newegg.

In the past year I have probably placed four orders with them (including one large order where I got case, motherboard, processor, RAM, and a few other items). The stuff is sent from California and I have received it here in Maryland in either two or three days every time. And that is without "Special Delivery".

The stuff is high quality and the prices are great. Oh and they usually have some cool freebie stuff too (t-shirts, pens, paper weights, etc.)

[Draft Dodger]

I just built my first computer (just barely finished it a week ago). and most of the stuff I bought was from newegg.

The only "difficult" thing about BYO is if something goes wrong - you put everything together and it wont boot, and then you have to try to figure out if its a bad processor, motherboard, loose cable, bad power supply, etc etc etc. I ran into this trouble, and after replacing several components, had a friend come over and determined that the power switch in the case was bad. I don't think I would have EVER figured that out on my own - and by then I had already RMA'd the motherboard, replaced the processor, and bought a new power supply.

one suggestion - don't save on the case; my first cases was pretty cheap; when I returned it, I bought a nice, nice Antec Case (Plusview1000 AMG LE). It made putting stuff together 1,000 times easier.

[Tasan]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
no more heat sink glue

[pc soapbox]
Not quite sure what you mean by this, but you DO have to put some kind of thermal compound between the heatsink and the processor still. Sometimes the heatsink will come with some "thermal tape" on it, which is about worthless. I've seen systems die because all that was used was the thermal tape on the bottom of the heatsink. My recommendation to everyone is carefully remove this tacky substance from the heatsink and buy a little tube of Artic Silver. Put a thin layer on the heatsink, and wide enough to cover the area of contact between the processor and the heatsink. Attach and go. Using the cheapo stuff that comes with the heatsink may not kill the system outright, but it will take months/years off the life due to poor heat transfer.
[/pc soapbox]

Anyway, that bit aside, I build all my PCs, except for the laptops. I've currently got 4 on a little home network, everyone of them built myself. I'm always game to help out in anyway I can. Today it is mostly a simple tab a to slot b type thing, the main problem is sometimes configuring the BIOS, depending on how autosensing the one you get is. Things like the front side bus are typically not auto detected, so it'll be something you have to watch for.

Oh and there are some new harddrive interfaces out there, make sure you get everything the same, motherboard and harddrive. The new SATA has a different connection than the old EIDE. Most new motherboards that offer SATA also have EIDE on them, but a couple of the newest ones only have one channel for CD/DVDs. It can be a pain if you bought a new SATA HD, but also have an old HD you want to migrate over, along with a CD Writer and a CD Reader.

[Airhog]

Heres another tip I can give you.

When you first build the computer, install the processor and memory on your motherboard. Then instead of mounting the mb in the case, sit it on top of the case on top of the bag it came in or some of the foam that came with it. Make sure none of the mb is touching your case. Install a video card, and plug in the power. and a keyboard. hook it up to a monitor and boot it up to make sure the motherboard works. This is a real timesaver if your motherboard doesnt work. After it boots you can install everything in the case.

[Buccaneer]

GB: To get an idea of where to start, go through the Configurator

http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/custom/thunderbird.htm

Then do like what I did and research the best components (like MB, RAM, CPU, video, etc.). Right now, I can build a top-of-the-line PC myself for under $1000. This would include the superb Asus A7N8X MB with AMD 3200+ and 1gb PC3500 DDR, as well as a 256mb GeForce plus an Antec tall tower case.

You made the right first step in not going with an assembly-line, low-bid parts PC - you pay a lot more for less performance. I was going to go with the above components but I decided to wait till next year for the AMD 64 components.

[Dutch]

I have been building my own and co-workers machines for years. But since I do it for free, I always make sure people understand that building your own system has it's ups and downs.

You get the components that YOU want, but you don't get much support if things go wrong.

Many companies like AlienWare and Falcon Northwest are terribly over priced, so stay away from them.

But check out the latest from Dell, for instance.

For $1,449 (after $200 rebate) you get,

Dell Dimension 8300
2.6Ghz Pentium 4 w/800Mhz FSB
MS Windows XP Pro
512MB DDR SDRA
80 GB 7200RPM Hard Drive
16X DVD-ROM Drive
48X CD-RW including Sonic RecordNow (whatever that is)
Keyboard
Optical USB Mouse
17 inch CRT Monitor
Sound Blaster Audigy 2
Harmon Kardon Speakers w/ Subwoofer
56K modem
10/100 Lan Card
128 MB DDR ATI RADEON 9800 Graphics Card

with Software bundles and for 50 bucks more they will hook you up with a wireless router and their True Mobile Wireless Adapter if this is a second or more computer in your household.

It's a hard deal to pass up if you are anything less than the most hardcore of hardcore gamers.

Just my .02 cents.

[FloridaFringe]

I am in the processes of building what will end up becoming my 3rd working computer in my office and essentially the 7th computer that I have built in the past 6 years. Your price range is rather high in certain regards. For example:

800mhz Abit Mother Board with built in 5.1 Surround Sound $106
800mhz Intel P4 2.4c Processor $178 with true Hyper Threading Technology
800mhz 512mb DDR3200 Ram $75
128mb 8x AGP Graphics Card $100
80gig Hard Drive $80
CDRom Drive $30
Case with 400watt Power Supply $50
S&H $50

There really isn't much need to spend $1500 or more on a top of the line custom built computer. Part of the beauty of doing it yourself is that you can get it up and running at above standard specs for cheap and then start upgrading as needed or desired. The computers that you buy at Gateway and Dell are great and all but they are built with certain specs in mind and are mostly not upgradeable in the best of respects.

Even if you throw in some more fancy items like a DVD or CDRW depending on where you get them and what rebates might apply you would still end up under a $1000. Hell you could even add a monitor for less than $150 if you shop around and take your time.

There are computer shows like the one that will be at the War Memorial in Fort Lauderdale this upcoming weekend that are great places to buy inexpensive parts. Check your local listings or visit www.marketproshows.com for more information.

[FloridaFringe]

BTW, Newegg is hands down the best place to order parts online.

Also, since I am personally in the ordering process right now I could supply you with links to product pages as well as pricing pages for each of the items that you would need.

[Tasan]

Another thing, if you are going to game on this machine, don't skimp on the video card. Look around for deals and make sure you come away with a top of the line 256 meg video card, either the Nvidia or Raedon one. Both have their ups and down but are overall really great cards. You always want to come away with a fairly tip top vidcard, as those really age quick, so getting something midrange right now will just wind up costing you more in the short run.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Thanks for all the replies! It's a great help!

cartman, Bucdawg, Kam, DraftDodger, FloridaFringe: Thanks for the info on Newegg. I bumped into ads for them last night when I was looking at some parts and they looked reputable. It's nice to hear that others have had good experiences with them.

DraftDodger: I hadn't thought about possible problems with a component that doesn't work properly. That's something to consider, as I too would have no clue what to do (beyond checking cables, etc.) if there is something wrong after I get the thing built.

Tasan: Thanks. I think I'll go with your advice on the thermal compound, although I was surprised to see a couple of websites last night that said you don't need to use compound anymore. It's pretty easy to put on, eh? For some reason, I had heard this was a difficult step in the process. I'll probably not cut any corners with the motherboard, so I'll be sure to get a BIOS setup that is easy for me to figure out.

Airhog: Thanks for the tip!

Buc: Thanks for the link! You like the Athalon processors better than Intel?

Dutch: The system you priced out at Dell is very much like what I put together on their site last night. I've bought two Dells before and been very happy. However, when I started looking at what they charge for certain components, and then looked at what it would cost to build a computer myself, it looks like I can move up a step or two higher across the board and still have it cost about the same. Time is a factor in the cost, of course, so normally I'd be happy to spend some extra cash to have someone build a computer for me, but in this case I'm looking forward to the challenge of building my own computer, and it looks like Dell makes about $400-$500 just for putting everything together. All in all, it looks like making your own computer is a good idea if you feel reasonably comfortable with playing around with the inside of your computer. I've put in memory, hard drives, networking cards, sound cards, modems, etc., so I think I can take it to the next level.

Florida Fringe: I included a rough $200 for a monitor, $100 for Windows XP, and $200 for Office Pro (education price) in my $1500-$1700 figure, so I think that might be why it's high. Thanks, too for offering to put up some links.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Originally posted by Tasan
Another thing, if you are going to game on this machine, don't skimp on the video card. Look around for deals and make sure you come away with a top of the line 256 meg video card, either the Nvidia or Raedon one. Both have their ups and down but are overall really great cards. You always want to come away with a fairly tip top vidcard, as those really age quick, so getting something midrange right now will just wind up costing you more in the short run.

I'm initially looking at an ATI Radeon 9600 Pro. I think it is 128mb, but I read something that said the performance is better than the 256mb version?

[Godzilla Blitz]

This might open a can of worms, but would people recommend Athalon or Intel for the CPU?

Also, would people advise spending extra cash to get a power supply of 400 watts, or is 350 enough?

[Buccaneer]

I am admittedly an AMD bigot, have been for 7 years. You get the same amount speed using less power and heat while costing $100 less.

As far as power supply, I highly recommend these type of cases with 450w power:
http://www.antec-inc.com/pro_details...p?ProdID=81046

I made the mistake last time in getting a bad case and switching over to this (with additional fans) was one of the best things I did. It provides ample power for any future expansion, it is very, very quiet and plently of room to work inside. You can never overestimate those benefits.

[FloridaFringe]

My personal opinions are:

(1) 128mb video will do pretty much anything that you will need done for at least the next year or so. You will end up saving at least $100 dollars over the 256 and by the time you will need to consider upgrading to the 256 version the prices will have dropped a considerable amount. So much so that you will probably not spend any more than shelling out the money for the 256 now but will end up not having to pull so much out of pocket just to get things rolling. One of my computers is running 32mg 4x AGP and doesn't have too many problems running the high end games on the market. Therefore, 128 should be plenty in relation to the overall cost.

(2) ATI is probably better than going with nVidia for now considering that some benchmarks have the ATI 128mb 8x AGP cards running at 40% faster rates as opposed to similar cards with the nVidia cards. Also, something to consider is that Microsoft just signed a contract with ATI for the Xbox 2 and has completely abandoned the idea of using nVidia as they had for the original Xbox. All that said, I have always been a fan of nVidia and still feel that you probably can't go wrong with either. Bottom line is to make sure that you get a MB that supports 8x AGP and that the card you get is 8x AGP. Do not settle for 4x, as it will be at least half as quick.

(3) Intel is the way to go. AMD had a place in my systems years ago but it just seems as if the Intel P4 chips can't be beat. However, this is almost like asking if someone prefers vanilla ice-cream over chocolate. Personal taste is going to play a key factor in which chip someone recommends. One thing to note is that Hyper Threading is the wave of the future and Intel 2.4c is probably the best chip for the job.

(4) 350 watts is plenty and you shouldn't notice a difference between that and a 400-watt. Do not go with less than 350 though and if you find a deal for a 400 at the same or within $10 of the 350 cost then the choice should be obvious.

(5) The software is a price point killer and I can see why your initial costs were so high. Good luck with that.

The main trick to building your own computer and saving money is to take your time and find the best deals. Try not to buy from too many different Internet sites so that you can more than likely save on shipping & handling charges.

[klayman]

The P4's are out performing the XP's right now, but the XP's are cheaper. It's a trade off.

If you are at all interested in overclocking, then AMD is the only way to go.

Of course everything will change with the release of the AMD 64 and P5. I'd wait until they are both out, and then you could pick up a high end P4 or AMD XP considerably cheaper than they are now.

[Tasan]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
I'm initially looking at an ATI Radeon 9600 Pro. I think it is 128mb, but I read something that said the performance is better than the 256mb version?

I believe you are probably looking at a review that was done before the optimazation(sp) for the 256 megs. That is fixed now, and they are blowing the doors off of everything.

[Tasan]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
Thanks for all the replies! It's a great help!

Tasan: Thanks. I think I'll go with your advice on the thermal compound, although I was surprised to see a couple of websites last night that said you don't need to use compound anymore. It's pretty easy to put on, eh? For some reason, I had heard this was a difficult step in the process. I'll probably not cut any corners with the motherboard, so I'll be sure to get a BIOS setup that is easy for me to figure out.

Thermal compound is definately still needed, some people just choose to accept what is given with the heatsink, and in SOME cases it is okay. In most cases though, you'll want to replace that tacky(literally, its tacky feeling) tape with some real compound. Its easy to put on, just use something that has a straight edge on it and get a nice, smooth, thin layer of it. You don't want too much, or it WON'T transfer heat. Think about he thickness of a sheet of paper.

[HornedFrog Purple]

If you have a friend/neighbor/know a college kid that has experience in puting one together, invest in the cost of a 6-pack, pizza what have you and put it together. You can learn everything you need to know in an afternoon.

[kingnebwsu]

I'm upgrading my PC right now too! I'm having some PC-buddies of mine build them for me, as my experience is still limited.

I got most of my stuff from dealsonic.com and also got some video card-age from newegg. I went with the "RADEON9200SE 128MB" as my video card and it was only $59 (with free shipping). I ordered everything (minus monitor, software, and HD) for a decent $387. Not a bad deal for the stuff I got. I went middle of the line instead of top of the line, as I'm a po' boy

I got 512 MB DDR RAM for a decent price, also an athlon 1.8 GHz processor for $94, which ain't bad. It's got a 333 MHz bus on it, so I was happy with that.

My parts should be arriving early next week and hopefully everything transfers okay. I think this new machine will be a slight upgrade from my current 566 MHz E-machines bundle of joy...

[Dutch]

GB, if you have the time and inclination, I would buy my own parts. Especially if you are concerned about the parts that are going into your system.

The part about Dell is to show you that it's really not hurting you too much to go to a reputable country to buy your machine. It's a pretty good deal......that and I have stocks in Dell.

[Alf]

GB : one tip from my experience. Watch what "noise level" is produced by the alimentation (and the fan). You might find it annoying if it is too "loud". Same applies for the graphic card (as most powerful ones have fan included).

[Godzilla Blitz]

Thanks again for all the info!

Buc: Yeah, a couple of articles I read recommended the same thing: don't skimp on the case. I take it Antec is a reliable brand?

Florida: Thanks for all the tips! I've been leaning towards an Intel just because most the benchmark tests seem to indicate that the P4 with hyperthreading is a faster chip than AMD. I'll probably stay away from the P5 and the Athlon 64. I've heard bad things regarding heat on both of those CPU's, and don't want to spend top dollar for the newest CPU.

Klayman: I doubt I'll overclock the system. I don't think I'll be running too many games that push the edge of the envelope, and I'm happy if the games run smoothly on my computer. Right now though, my p3 800 is quickly dropping below the minimum specs for quite a few of the newer games that I would like to play, and I've been wanting to run Morrowind in all its glory for quite some time. I'll be really busy for the next couple of months anyway, though, so I might wait a bit and look for deals on parts over the course of the next couple of months, then get the CPU last.

Tasan: Thanks for the clarification on the video card. I wouldn't be surprised if the article I read was from the summer. I don't know if I'll drop top dollar to get the fastest video card out there. (I've tended to buy the second fastest of everything when it comes to computers, believing that you don't get much bang for the buck when you buy the latest, fastest component right as it comes out.) Thanks too for the info on the compound. The "sheet of paper" image is one I can keep in my head.

Horned: You're probably right about that one. I tend to try to do things by myself, but I should probably just get someone to help that knows what they are doing.

kingnebwsu: That sounds like you're getting quite a jump in performance for less than $400. Good move!

Dutch: I've been satisfied with the two Dells I've owned, and I think their price/performance ratio is pretty good for a major manufacturer. No complaints here. They were definitely the way for me to go when I knew little about the guts of a computer.

Alf: How noisy is bad? Is there some kind of a rating each component gets? I think I've had some reasonably noisy computers, but they don't seem to bother me much after the first week.

[Tasan]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz

Alf: How noisy is bad? Is there some kind of a rating each component gets? I think I've had some reasonably noisy computers, but they don't seem to bother me much after the first week.

I'll jump in and throw an answer out there on this, as I've just "cured" a noisy machine. Try to get system fans with decible ratings below 40 I believe. I can't find my boxes from the fans I got, but I believe that is what I was looking for. With less noise, though, usually means slower speeds which means less airflow. Its a tradeoff. And remember, you need to push out as much as you pull in, so try to get the total airflow in and out equal.

[FloridaFringe]

Also know that to get the benefits of TRUE Hyper Threading you will need an 800mhz MoBo that supports the feature + PC3200 or better DDR + the correct processor. Do not settle for a 2.4 or a 2.8 since they will only emulate HT. Instead you need to look for a 2.4c or a 2.8c or similar.

All three components (MoBo + DDR + CPU) must be included with the correct types or the HT will not be what you expect. Although, most people would never notice any difference any ways.

Best of luck.

[FloridaFringe]

Question on Video Cards for those who care to share:

I have been looking at the Radeon 9200 cards but have come to realize that for the money the best bet may be the 9600 series.

1. Is there a substantial difference in quality between the two?

2. There are several 9600 cards sold by outside companies like Xtasy, Connect3D, Sapphire and PowerColor. These cards sell for about the same as the actual ATI 9200 cards, which is about $50 less than the actual ATI 9600 cards. Are any of these companies worth buying from or would it be best to stick to ATI cards made and sold by ATI?

3. The 9600 Pro cards are running $20 more than the straight up 9600 cards. Are there any major differences that would justify the extra $20 or is that money better spent elsewhere?

Thanks.

[Tasan]

All of those companies use the same basic board as ATI. ATI finally decided about a year ago, much like NVidia has always done, that they are better off just making the processor and the standized board, and licensing that off to other manufacturers. You'll get varying memory qualities and a couple of different optional features with various companies, but on the whole you don't lose anything by not going strictly ATI. As far as the difference between the 9200 and the 9600, I'm not really sure. I think the 9200 is on the same "generation" as the GF3, and the 9600 is on the GF4 "generation" if that helps any.

[thealmighty]

Hey, GB, when the time comes, how about a 'dynasty' report.

Might spur someone to build one of their own.

[FloridaFringe]

Thanks for the info Tasan. I was hoping that was the case with ATI. I knew that nVidia had done that with their chip sets and it had worked out well. One of the best cards that I have ever had was made by LeadTek with an nVidia chip. Excellent performance at a reasonable price. Then again that is what it all comes down to in the end.

I am going to a computer show this afternoon without any expectations but hopefully something positive will come of it. I have just finalized my list and will start purchasing piece by piece as the deals come around.

[Draft Dodger]

GB:

I used a 9600 Pro in my machine - it's working pretty well, but, really, the reason I went for it was mostly because of cost vs performance (it's a good bang for a moderate amount of buck). Frankly, if I were in your shoes (a lot of money to spend), I probably would have gotten a better card. I expect that that's probably the first thing I upgrade, and then put this into my other machine.

Also, I went with AMD, but that's only because I was able to get the 3000+ processor for a really good deal. Before that opportunity came up, I was definitely leaning towards Intel after all the research I did - an 865 motherboard and the fastest p4 I could afford was where I was headed. In the end, because I got the AMD, I got a nice MSI K7 nForce Mobo...and it's definitely a nice setup.

[Ryche]

Good info from everybody. I'm in a similar boat to GB, looking at building a new computer for my wife...poor thing is stuck with a 400 Celeron.

[wbonnell]

I'm viewing this on a pentium II 300. For basic, text web surfing (and, lately, some FOF 2001), that's plenty of horsepower...

[cartman]

GB,

If you care to spring for a little more, you can make your computer really quiet and go the water cooling route. Or, if you go with a full tower case, Zalman makes some REALLY large heat sinks for the newer and hotter-running CPUs. I was suprised how much louder my new computer was with the stock P4 (3.06ghz) and GeForce 4 fans. Popped in the Koolance EXOS system for CPU, GPU, and Northbridge cooling, and the thing is super quiet.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Tasan: Thanks for the info on the fans. I've been looking at Newegg for info on the fans that come with Antec cases, but they don't seem to give any decibel information. I'll keep looking.

Florida: Thanks again. That is good info, and I doubt I would have figured that out on my own. I've been looking at a p4 2.4CGHz with 800MHz Hyper Threading. From the reports on it at Newegg, it looks like runs cool overclocked at 3.0GHz, and that Hyperthreading rocks when you get it working well. Sounds like a winner CPU.

Is it easy to overclock a CPU? I noticed that the readers there reported the operating temperatures of their CPUs as well. Do you find out the temperatures from BIOS? Is that easy to figure out as well?

Florida: I don't have a clue on the video card question, but I was reading a speed comparison a couple of days ago. I tried to find it again but couldn't. Before I buy a card though I'll look for some articles on video card speed and try to post links if I have some success.

thealmighty: I could post a journal (parts bought, problems encountered, thoughts, costs, time involved, etc.) of the process, but would it be better to keep everything here? If anyone else is doing likewise, maybe they could jump in with how it's going for them as well. Although I don't know much about what I'm doing, I know a lot more than I did from the posts that others have made over the past couple of days; it always amazes me how helpful and knowledgeable the people here are. Maybe by the time we're done we could have one thread with lots of information for people building a computer.

Florida: Good luck at the computer show. Let us know if you find anything good.

DraftDodger: I might take a closer look at video cards once I decide on the CPU, case, and motherboard. I don't feel like I have a lot of money to spend, but if there's good value in adding some cash to the video card, I might go for it. Thanks for the tip.

Ryche: Feel free to jump in with any questions or ideas!

wbonnell: My motivation comes from Railroad Tycoon III, Morrowind, Pirate Hunter (a lot of people are saying this reminds them of Pirates), Call of Duty, and some work-related speed issues. For just web-browsing and FOF2004, this P3 800 is great. I also intend to keep my current PC if I can't play XCOM on the new one. Can't give up that game.

My next step is to try to find some info on companies that make reliable cases (Antec is one of the best?), motherboards (no clue here), and CPUs (probably go with Intel p4 with HyperThreading). I'll probably spend some time this evening looking over website reviews, although I haven't yet found one site that has easy to view ratings on a number of components. Motherboards.org seems to be pretty good, though, and I think there must be a way to sort through their info better.

Anyway, thanks again for all the comments!

[cartman]

GB:

Since you asked...

For motherboards, I've always had good luck with Asus. My current mobo is the P4G8X.

For a video card, I'd recommend one of the GeForce 4200Ti cards. Plenty of bang for the buck.

And, as for a case, Lian Li, Antec, and Cooler Master are all fine cases. Look to see if the case comes with a powersupply. If not, then a good one to look for would be an Antec PS.

[FloridaFringe]

I just got home from the computer show and must say that although I was glad that I went I probably would not go again unless there is some older item that I may be looking for. Most of the stock was geared toward lower budgets looking for bare-bones bare-quality items. There were several vendors that had 1 or 2 of the items that I am interested in but the prices were actually more expensive than going through Newegg and paying for shipping & handling. O'well. Live and learn.

I have found some really good deals on several items at Best Buy and CompUSA believe it or not. I will post a follow up once I get some rest and can take the time to get all of my thoughts together. Last night was a long night of gaming and I am currently working on 2 hours of sleep. Time for a short nap and then back to the compulab, sort of speak.

I think that the buying phase will actually start tomorrow morning as I have figured nearly everything out. The case is the only thing holding me back since I am a bit reluctant to save money at the risk of getting crappy quality. This is the one aspect of my new machine that may be bought last and dependant on what my budget looks like after getting everything else ordered.

More to come soon...

[Tasan]

Originally posted by cartman
GB:


For a video card, I'd recommend one of the GeForce 4200Ti cards. Plenty of bang for the buck.

No offense cartman, but GB don't go with this. If you are going to put a top end system together like you are saying, don't hold it back with the video. Minimum you should look at is a nVidia FX 5600 and Raedon 9600. By going back to a GF4 line, you are just bottlenecking your system at the video end.

[Ryche]

Kind of a silly computer requirement for my wife, but can anyone recommend a good case that comes in colors? I showed her the Antec webpage and she thought all of the cases there were boring. Other then this requirement, she's being quite reasonable.

Overall for her computer, the main requirement is that it runs Everquest and Everquest 2 whenever that comes out.

[FloridaFringe]

Newegg.com has plenty of cases that come in various colors.

[FloridaFringe]

A couple of deals in this weeks ads that run until Nov 1:

CompUSA

Xtasy ATI 9600 256mb 8x AGP Graphics Card ($150 after rebates) this is probably the best card on the market considering that at this price it is practically a steal.

SeaGate Serial ATA 80gb 7200rpm 8mb Cache Hard Drive ($50 after rebates)

BestBuy

MeiaStor 52 x 24 x 52 Internal CD-RW Drive ($10 after rebates) claims $15 in the ad but listed as $10 in the store.

NewEgg

Intel P4 2.4c Socket 478 Hyper Threading Technology 800mhz FSB ($182)

2 x 256mb 184pin DDR PC3200 Un-Buffered Non-Parity Non-ECC 400mhz ($38 each / $76 total) really no need to go with less than 512mb since 256mb will only save you $18 total. This type of memory (PC3200 or better) is required for Hyper Threading to work properly and must be purchased in pairs as well. Otherwise the output will be limited and the benefits will be lost completely.

ABIT IS7 ($102) an excellent MotherBoard with built in 10/100 and 5.1 Surround Sound that competes with even some of the top of the line sound cards. This board deserves a look if nothing else.

Link

[cartman]

Ryche,

I got the "Cool Blue" case from CoolerMaster. It's got an acrylic blue front door that looks pretty sweet. And I got it from Newegg.

[cartman]

Originally posted by Tasan
No offense cartman, but GB don't go with this. If you are going to put a top end system together like you are saying, don't hold it back with the video. Minimum you should look at is a nVidia FX 5600 and Raedon 9600. By going back to a GF4 line, you are just bottlenecking your system at the video end.

No offense taken. But, if you are looking at shaving $100-$200 off of the price of the setup, then I think this is a reasonable option. The human eye has problems telling the difference between frame rates above 60 FPS. So if the video card can pump out 200 FPS vs. 100 FPS, then there isn't much tangible benefit.

But that being said, if you have the cash to spring for the FX5600 or ATI 9600, then by all means do so.

[Ryche]

Xtasy ATI 9600 256mb 8x AGP Graphics Card ($150 after rebates) this is probably the best card on the market considering that at this price it is practically a steal.

Anyone know anything more about this card? I'm seriously considering getting it for my wife's computer (and as a bonus I get to use it until the computer is built )

[Tasan]

Originally posted by cartman
No offense taken. But, if you are looking at shaving $100-$200 off of the price of the setup, then I think this is a reasonable option. The human eye has problems telling the difference between frame rates above 60 FPS. So if the video card can pump out 200 FPS vs. 100 FPS, then there isn't much tangible benefit.

But that being said, if you have the cash to spring for the FX5600 or ATI 9600, then by all means do so.

Actually the FPS thing is an old misconception. Yes, the eye can't see higher than 50 or so fps, BUT, the way a computer refreshes and updates, higher fps DOES give you a smoother blend of animation even above the normal human fps limit.

[FloridaFringe]

Originally posted by Ryche
Anyone know anything more about this card? I'm seriously considering getting it for my wife's computer (and as a bonus I get to use it until the computer is built )

First of all, make sure that the MotherBoard can handle an 8x AGP card otherwise it will only run at 4x AGP. In that case there are less expensive cards that will give you the same output.

Secondly, check the power supply. This card is going to need at least 350 watts to run at full capacity. Otherwise you will run the risk of having problems such as computer freezes and the like.

I will be doing some research in the line of reviews and will share anything good that comes up.

[Godzilla Blitz]

Well, I didn't get much done with this tonight. Started doing some work while watching the football game and suddenly things got late. I'll try to find some time tomorrow.

cartman: Please feel free to jump in at anytime! Thanks for the advice. Antec seems to make a great case from what I can tell so far.

Florida: Too bad about the computer sale. They have them a few times a year here in Minnesota too, and I was disappointed with the quality and prices of stuff the last time I went. Like you said, a lot of the stuff was more expensive than some of the chain stores around here. Not only that, but they charge something like $7 to get in. I haven't been to one in a couple of years now.

Tasan, cartman: Thanks for the advice on the video card. I think I'll get at least an ATI 9600, just because it seems to fit well within the budget. I may even move up if I end up saving some bucks somewhere else in the system. (I'd allotted $300 for the CPU and might save $100+ there.) I think if I really wanted to save some cash I would pull out the GeForce3 Ti200 that's in my current machine and put that in the new one until I see a really good deal on a newer card.

Ryche: Regarding the case colors, have you seen the funky case lights that Newegg sells? Does anyone know if these are any good? They plug into a USB port and supposedly flash to the beat of music you play. Maybe your wife would like something like that? I think they're really cheap (under $20?).

Florida: Thanks for posting those prices. Regarding the Surround Sound on the mobo, I was reading an article that didn't recommend getting the sound with the mobo unless it was easily disabled. Do you have any thoughts on this? Are you thinking of skipping installing a sound card and just using the sound on the mobo?

Ryche: Everything I have read about that card (ATI 9600) so far has been good.

[Tasan]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
Florida: Thanks for posting those prices. Regarding the Surround Sound on the mobo, I was reading an article that didn't recommend getting the sound with the mobo unless it was easily disabled. Do you have any thoughts on this? Are you thinking of skipping installing a sound card and just using the sound on the mobo?

I'll take a stab at this. Just about every motherboard made today comes with onboard sound, and they are all easy to disable, its a BIOS option usually, in rare cases a jumper to change. The quality has been improving greatly as well. I believe the newer NForce2 boards have very good sound, but I can't find the article I read that in. I still usually go with a soundblaster line audio device, but I've been doing that since like 1993, so I might be a little biased there ;- )

[Ryche]

Ryche: Regarding the case colors, have you seen the funky case lights that Newegg sells? Does anyone know if these are any good? They plug into a USB port and supposedly flash to the beat of music you play. Maybe your wife would like something like that? I think they're really cheap (under $20?).

She did actually see that and considered it...but decided she would find it annoying pretty quickly. She's spent most of the day looking at prices and finding all the parts needed. Looks like I might be building this in the next month.

Here's the list she put together so far. Any glaring omissions or suggestions?

Video Card -
http://www.compusa.com/products/prod...ernal#moreinfo
(Xtasy 9600 Video Card, 8x AGP, 256MB DDR)
$150

Case -
http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage....123-040-03.JPG
(Chenbro BLUE w/Black Mid-Tower ATX Case, Model
PC61166 BLUE- Retail)
$50

Lighting kit and fans -
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...101&CatId=1237
(ULTRA Case Lighting Kit - Includes 1 Green Light, 2
Green 80mm LED Fans,1 Green Memory Cooler)
$20

Power supply -
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...&sku=A453-1060
(Antec SL400 400 W ATX Power Supply)
$55

Motherboard -
http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=P4S800&langs=09
(Asus Motherboard for Intel Processors Model P4S800
Retail)
$79 -at www.newegg.com

Processor -
http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage....116-159-02.JPG
(Intel Pentium 4 / 2.6CGHz 512k socket 478 Hyper
Threading Technology 800 MHz FSB - RETAIL)
$175

Hard drive -
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...roperty&DEPA=1
(Seagate 80GB 7200rpm SATA Hard Drive Barracuda V
ST380023AS- OEM)
$81

We're just planning on one cd drive for now as well, probably 512 memory to start and adding a sound card later.