Perfect strategy game

[wbonnell]

After a 6 month hiatus from pc gaming (although I *have* been playing my XBox, specifically Knights of the Old Republic) , I'm looking to sink my teeth into an engrossing strategy game (when I'm not reading and writing papers). There looks to be several excellent choices, but I don't have the time to sort through them. That's were you guys come in. Here's my *ordered* list of preferences:

1. must be a strategy game
2. must have long-term replayability
3. must have depth
4. must not be a sports sim
5. should have an active, mature, and intellectual community (like FOFC)
6. prefer turn based but open to real time
7. prefer historic to modern or sci-fi
8. prefer realistic to fantasy
9. doesn't require multi-player

Strategy games I've enjoyed in the past (in no particular order):
- OOTP
- FOF
- Civ 2
- Heroes of Might and Magic
- Warcraft III
- Starcraft
- Rollercoaster Tycoon
- Railroad Tycoon II
- Red Alert
- Age of Empires II
- Medieval Total War

[tucker342]

Age of Mythology - Fantastic game

[sabotai]

EU2 sounds like what you are looking for. Either that or Hearts of Iron.

[daedalus]

For me, it's Alpha Centuri. But it does take place in a science-fiction setting and I'm not sure how active the community is nowadays.

For your purpose, I'd go with Europa Universalis 2. As it seems to qualify all conditions. As a bonus, if you can get your son hooked on it too, maybe you can get him to research the historical leaders that appears. That maybe an interesting activity.

[johnnyshaka]

Where's Stratego???

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by daedalus

For your purpose, I'd go with Europa Universalis 2. As it seems to qualify all conditions. As a bonus, if you can get your son hooked on it too, maybe you can get him to research the historical leaders that appears. That maybe an interesting activity.

Good idea. I forgot to mention that I already have Civilization 3, and my son loves to play with me. Does EU2 move quickly enough to hold his interest?

[Marc Vaughan]

Age of wonders is imho a very good game - if they emphasised the individual personalities of the heroes and creatures in it more and carried things over more from scenario to scenario it'd be near as damn it perfect in my eyes ...

[KWhit]

Originally posted by wbonnell

5. should have an active, mature, and intellectual community (like FOFC)

Um, did you read the "Sky" thread?





I say Alpha Centauri, by the way. By far my favorite of the Civ series.

[Honolulu Blue]

Sounds like Imperialism II is right up your alley. Let's go down your list:

Originally posted by wbonnell
Here's my *ordered* list of preferences:

1. must be a strategy game - CHECK. Imperialism II is very much a strategy game.
2. must have long-term replayability - CHECK. For me it's survived four different installations over 4 1/2 years and I STILL play it every couple of months or so.
3. must have depth - CHECK. Imperialism II has a lot of things to think about every turn; I think that's what you mean by depth.
4. must not be a sports sim - CHECK.
5. should have an active, mature, and intellectual community (like FOFC) - Sorry.
6. prefer turn based but open to real time - CHECK. Imperialism II is turn-based through and through.
7. prefer historic to modern or sci-fi - CHECK. Imperialism II is set in the Age of Discovery (1500-1850).
8. prefer realistic to fantasy - CHECK. Imperialism II has a realistic setting and realistic goals.
9. doesn't require multi-player - CHECK. Imperialism II has multiplayer available, but the AI is so wicked it's not really necessary.

So that's what, 8 out of 9? I think you'll get a kick out of it if you haven't played it before. I should note that Imp II has some flaws that don't bother me, but may bother others:

1) The game is close to 5 years old
2) The graphics are more functional than dazzling
3) It's out of print
4) The AI may be too much for some people, even at the lower difficulty levels

Anyway, of the games you have listed, you have two of my most disappointing games (SMAC and Civ III) and sequel to another disappointment (Europa Universalis). I haven't played any of the others, so I can't recommend any of them.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Honolulu Blue
Sounds like Imperialism II is right up your alley. Let's go down your list:



So that's what, 8 out of 9? I think you'll get a kick out of it if you haven't played it before. I should note that Imp II has some flaws that don't bother me, but may bother others:

1) The game is close to 5 years old
2) The graphics are more functional than dazzling
3) It's out of print
4) The AI may be too much for some people, even at the lower difficulty levels

Imperialism II, huh? I've heard good things about it, especially here at FOFC. Do you happen to know if it supports 1280x1024? It sure would be nice to play a game in my LCD's default resolution.

Anyway, of the games you have listed, you have two of my most disappointing games (SMAC and Civ III) and sequel to another disappointment (Europa Universalis). I haven't played any of the others, so I can't recommend any of them.

Why did EU disappoint you? I was actually leaning in that direction...

[gstelmack]

I could offer you some good choices, but I'm not sure about long-term replayability without involving multiplayer. Rise of Nations and Age of Mythology were both a lot of fun to play through the campaign, but I had no interest in quick battles after that. Civ III sucked me in like the first Civ did, but after a while I started getting tired of that combat model (where a musketeer still has a chance to take out that armored formation rolling through it). I never got into Alpha Centauri. I have not played the others, but have heard good things about most of them. In short, you aren't likely to go wrong with most of these games, but for me it's hard to find a strategy game that lasts more than a few months, as you either get frustrated with it or figure out the AI.

Some other choices to consider:

1. Combat Mission (www.battlefront.com)
2. Warlords Battlecry II
3. Galactic Civilizations (really solid AI, and good support)

[Buccaneer]

HB, I get turned on every time you or I mention Imperialism II.

To me, I still choose Civ2 scenarios. Even though the main game has been beaten to death, there were superb scenario designers making Civ2 fresh and exciting - even to this day. They do it because of Civ2's infinite replayability and customizability - something Civ3 can't even come close to with its linearity and lack of true customizability.

William, don't forget to consider my favorite series: Impression Games' City Building Series (Caesar, Pharaoh/Cleopatra, Zeus/Poseidon, Emperor). These can be found in bundles at a great deal.

FWIW, I am very much turned off by EU and anything Paradox has made. It's not they are bad games, they have design decisions and gameplay models that does not appeal to me as a historical strategy gamer.

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally posted by wbonnell
Imperialism II, huh? I've heard good things about it, especially here at FOFC. Do you happen to know if it supports 1280x1024? It sure would be nice to play a game in my LCD's default resolution.

It doesn't really support 1280x1024 (it's an 800x600 game), but you don't have to change resolutions to play the game as it is done automatically at startup.

Why did EU disappoint you? I was actually leaning in that direction...

It's been awhile since I played it, but I remeber two things. One is that the games were S-L-O-W to develop. Another is that territories taken you don't necessarily get to keep; it's subject to negotiation after the war ends. Both of those things annoyed me enough to keep it buried.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by Honolulu Blue

It's been awhile since I played it, but I remeber two things. One is that the games were S-L-O-W to develop. Another is that territories taken you don't necessarily get to keep; it's subject to negotiation after the war ends. Both of those things annoyed me enough to keep it buried.

I didn't have a problem with these. Building and troop movements were slow but they were *meant* to be slow. I didn't mind the territory thing, either, as that's how they meant it to be. I think they wanted to make that resemble the negotiation situation of real life. EU isn't really meant to be a war game in the sense than many 4X are meant to be. If you really want to, you can play a warmonger. But you don't have to.

[Glengoyne]

Master of Orion, the first one got it right.

The second one had fatal flaws, and introduced micro-management.

The third one should be an example of how a game should not be developed.

[sachmo71]

Empire Deluxe. Great fun.

[wbonnell]

wow! no votes for Rise of Nations?

[daedalus]

I've never played Rise or I'd probably vote for it. I usually like games that Brian Reynolds makes. Ben played it, you may be able to get an opinion on it from him.

Originally posted by wbonnell
Good idea. I forgot to mention that I already have Civilization 3, and my son loves to play with me. Does EU2 move quickly enough to hold his interest?

Forgot to answer this. Yes, the game is slow. It's meant to be that way. You're suppose to care about what you choose for your cities. But you can control the time speed so it's not like you'll be sitting there reading War and Peace waiting for time to pass. Paradox has a fairly active forum on their games, you can find the EU forum [ here ]. If you read dynasties here, you might check out the AAR over there as well. There's some REALLY good one.

[wbonnell]

I was silently rooting for EU2, but it looks like Alpha Centauri is still going strong. Any more votes?

[sabotai]

If you were silently rooting for one game over another....I think you made your choice.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by sabotai
If you were silently rooting for one game over another....I think you made your choice.

Maybe. However, I just so happen to have a copy of Alpha Centauri, so I think I'm going to (finally) actually play it. I've heard that it has a nice philosophical bent.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by wbonnell
Maybe. However, I just so happen to have a copy of Alpha Centauri, so I think I'm going to (finally) actually play it. I've heard that it has a nice philosophical bent.

IMHO, Alpha Centauri is the best of the civ style games that I have played. That said, you can;t go wrong with a patched version of EU2.

[Buccaneer]

Originally posted by wbonnell
Maybe. However, I just so happen to have a copy of Alpha Centauri, so I think I'm going to (finally) actually play it. I've heard that it has a nice philosophical bent.

Well, that shoots your "prefer historic to modern or sci-fi" all to hell. AC is a glorified Civ2 scenario and there are better ones available that is more in line with history and historical events.

[Bonegavel]

Korsuns Pocket fits every point you make.

http://www.korsunpocket.com/features.asp

SMAC is for pussies.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Buccaneer
Well, that shoots your "prefer historic to modern or sci-fi" all to hell. AC is a glorified Civ2 scenario and there are better ones available that is more in line with history and historical events.

ya, but that's okay. Prefer was the weakest of my preferences (must, should, prefer).

That said, I probably don't even have the time to play...

[daedalus]

I can't agree with the assessment that "AC is a glorified Civ2 scenario". Is the game mechanic roughly the same? Oh, Hell yes. But, then, it's the same guy who produced it. There're fairly drastic differences between the two games.

By the way, if you're interested and like AC, you might try keep an eye out at Target or Wal-Mart. There's a $20 "Laptop Pack" that includes SMAC and SMAX. SMAX is usually tough to find anywhere else.

[Edit: I'm too stupid for plurality.]

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by Bonegavel
Korsuns Pocket fits every point you make.

http://www.korsunpocket.com/features.asp

SMAC is for pussies.

the reviews from PC Gamer and CGW are especially impressive; however, my least favorite aspect of strategy games is war.

[wbonnell]

Wow! EU2 is now in the lead. But I can't get over the lack of love for Rise of Nations. I assumed Reynolds was incapable of crafting a less-than-great game.

[PraetorianX]

Not many voting for Victoria, eh?

Well, as a Beta tester for it, trust me guys when I say...it blows EU2 and HoI away, easily.

[PraetorianX]

Originally posted by wbonnell
Wow! EU2 is now in the lead. But I can't get over the lack of love for Rise of Nations. I assumed Reynolds was incapable of crafting a less-than-great game.

I liked RoN, it's an outstanding game.

[wbonnell]

Well, I picked up EU2 for a reasonable price ($15) and snagged Alpha Centauri (plus expansion in the "Laptop Collection") as well. Based on the results of this poll, I decided to tackle EU2 first. Big mistake! It is absolutely huge. Where do I start? If I wasn't working on a master's degree I might have the time, but this game seems to require a similar level of devotion.

Obviously, depth is very important to me (and do I plan to delve into it more deeply time permitting), but AC is gonna have to do for now. It seems to have a more gradual learning curve. In other words, I don't feel thrust into the middle of Spanish Armada (or whatever).

And I'm going to continue to play KOTR and GTA3 (only when the kids are sound asleep) on the XBox.

[wbonnell]

Hey! Poll's over!

[Bonegavel]

What I hated about SMAC is that each unit created could be unique and it was hard to tell them apart.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by wbonnell
Well, I picked up EU2 for a reasonable price ($15) and snagged Alpha Centauri (plus expansion in the "Laptop Collection") as well. Based on the results of this poll, I decided to tackle EU2 first. Big mistake! It is absolutely huge. Where do I start? If I wasn't working on a master's degree I might have the time, but this game seems to require a similar level of devotion.

I'd say give it a whirl as one of the major nations at a lower difficulty level. Challenges will come even when you play as one of those. But at least this will give you some room to get used to the game.

The other thing is to definitely check out the Paradox forum. There are a lot of good readings there.

[sabotai]

If I wasn't working on a master's degree I might have the time

That's what winter and summer breaks are for.

[Raiders Army]

I like Civ2 better than Civ3, so I voted for other. Also, I am a huge fan of Starcraft.

[OldGiants]

Originally posted by wbonnell
Well, I picked up EU2 for a reasonable price ($15) and snagged Alpha Centauri (plus expansion in the "Laptop Collection") as well. Based on the results of this poll, I decided to tackle EU2 first. Big mistake! It is absolutely huge. Where do I start? If I wasn't working on a master's degree I might have the time, but this game seems to require a similar level of devotion.

Obviously, depth is very important to me (and do I plan to delve into it more deeply time permitting), but AC is gonna have to do for now. It seems to have a more gradual learning curve. In other words, I don't feel thrust into the middle of Spanish Armada (or whatever).

And I'm going to continue to play KOTR and GTA3 (only when the kids are sound asleep) on the XBox.

I'm in much the same boat as you, although in my case its re-installing EU2 and SMAC on a USB hard drive (bought mostly for FOF and OOTP save files, but I told my wife it was for all her digital photos!)

PLay EU2 as Portugal in the exploration scenario to get your feet wet. Play "first to 500" wins, and you'll have a good time. THat's what got me going on EU2. Remember to take missions for points. Defending your home province is easy and rewarding.

[wbonnell]

Originally posted by OldGiants
I'm in much the same boat as you, although in my case its re-installing EU2 and SMAC on a USB hard drive (bought mostly for FOF and OOTP save files, but I told my wife it was for all her digital photos!)

PLay EU2 as Portugal in the exploration scenario to get your feet wet. Play "first to 500" wins, and you'll have a good time. THat's what got me going on EU2. Remember to take missions for points. Defending your home province is easy and rewarding.

Don't see you around here much anymore. Are you enjoying 2k4?

[OldGiants]

Originally posted by wbonnell
Don't see you around here much anymore. Are you enjoying 2k4?

Thanks for noticing. Since 2k4 came out, I've been playing and posting about it. It stopped my EU2 and SMAC playing, in fact.