Brett Favre got robbed.

Axxon · 11-15-2003, 03:55 AM

I have just finished my first season in 2k4. I did a draft league. Brett Favre lead St Louis to the superbowl, beating me in the conference final.

All year Brett and my qb Manning were 1 and 2 in qb rating but Favre was killing the league in yards.

He ended up throwing for 5088 yds, 36 tds, 12 int's and a qb rating of 101.4

Manning was the only other qb to rate over 100 and he ended up throwing for 4059 yds, 31 tds, 12 ints and a 100.1 rating.

So, I figure this is how the voting for o player of the year and all league qb's would go but to my surprise, the winner of poty o-poty and all league first team qb was...

Steve McNair who lost in the divisionals to St Louis.

He threw for 4340 yds, 23 tds and 13 ints with a 90.0 rating.

WTF?? Better get Rush on the phone. I feel bad for Peyton but Brett got hosed big time.

JAG · 11-15-2003, 04:41 AM

Hm, rushing yards/TD's maybe? Even still, I wouldn't have voted against those stats for Favre.

Axxon · 11-15-2003, 04:55 AM

You know, I thought of that. IN fact, I'm not really criticizing the game at all because it's a judgement call.

McNair rushed for 668 yds and 2 tds with a 7.0 ypc but...

adding his rushing and his passing he still falls short of Favre's passing yds and tds alone.

Again, I'd say Favre got robbed but it's certainly not unrealistic to think this could happen in real life. My impressions on the first season are a lot like that; there's some stuff that makes me go hmmm, but nothing that makes me go bs. Know what I mean?

Now, I've also been thinking about peoples inflated passing numbers and down running and I can see it this season but not too extreme.

But, does this mean that the engine is flawed?? I can't say. It's just as likely that the roster set is unbalanced and/or flawed. I'd need to see several more seasons and notice if there are any trends before I'd be ready to jump on this bandwagon but there does seem to be a bit of a passing trend with the current roster set.

Travis · 11-15-2003, 05:09 AM

I don't have the game yet, but I'll throw this into the fray to see if it helps/hinders the discussion.

How good were the supporting casts for Favre and McNair? If McNair put up his numbers behind say a vastly inferior line to Favre's, or with receivers that just aren't on the same level as the Rams, then that could be taken into consideration as well.

Again, I'm just hoping it's something to that effect as that would be an awesome bit of coding to have the game take something like that into effect, as would happen in real life.

Axxon · 11-15-2003, 05:26 AM

Good thought Travis. Let me take a look at that. Now, before I even look they were both playoff calibre teams and each got at least 12 wins in the season so we kinda have an all things being equal results wise.

Lets see if I can break it down further.

Noop · 11-15-2003, 05:37 AM

McNair has won every All-Pro QB and League NFL in my career ( 3 years) I had Ricky Williams who ran for 1892 yds 11 tds with 781 cths 5tds still not win MVP, or OPofY hell Jay Feilder had a QB rating of 100.4 and didnt even get All League Seacond Team considering his talent level he should be MVP of the League. Oh and he played on a 13-3 team also super bowl champs. Oh well I'm still waiting to draft me a decent QB instead of these sorry bunchs who fake like one guess my system is good.

Axxon · 11-15-2003, 05:52 AM

Some simple stats to look at.

Minnesota ( McNair ) had the 9th highest rushing total in the league and averaged 3.7 ypc. McNair was a huge part of that. Take out his yardage and they end up dead last in the league. Well, maybe not as I have no clue what other qb's were running for but at face value they drop to last.

St Louis ( Favre ) finished 26th in the league in rushing and averaged 3.o ypc. Take out Favre's 119 and they'd have finished 30th.

St Louis of course led the league in passing yds, yards per completion, yards per game, yards average while only finishing 10th in attempts.

In the same categories Minnesota was 4th, 8th, 4th, 4th and 12th in attempts.

St Louis receivers are:

Randy Moss ( 75 current )
Peerless Price ( 73 ) Led league in catches, tds, yac, avg and td's
Pollard ( 76 )

Minnesota:

Kevin Johnson ( 55 )
Andre Johnson ( 51 )
Todd Heap ( 79 )

No Minnesota receiver had a top ten season in any meaningful categories. They had no 1000 yd receiver. No receiver over 6 tds. They had 7 receivers in triple digit yardage. They threw to everybody.

St Louis had 6 in triple digits but behind Price ( 2022 14 tds ) and Moss ( 1262 7 tds ) only Pollard ( 701 7 tds ) contributed as much as any of the top six Minnesota receivers.

OLine ratings as per my scout.

Minn: 47 44 40 26 22
St Louis: 62 43 65 59 48

I don't know Travis, but it looks like you very well MAY be on to something there. That WOULD be huge wouldn't it?

Travis · 11-15-2003, 12:58 PM

That would be very excellent. And it really does look like that O-Line may be what's forcing McNair to pull the ball down and scramble for yards instead of passing, which of course affects his passing totals. Good thing he has a TE that can catch, because it doesn't seem like that line will give him enough time to find a WR very often...

SunDancer · 11-15-2003, 01:00 PM

How many 4th Quarter comebacks did they have?

MizzouRah · 11-15-2003, 01:09 PM

Axxon,

That would be unreal, but I think Farve just got ripped off. MVP's can be argued over in any sport, as it's very subjective.

If Jim programmed something like your are suggesting, I would be amazed at how intricate Jim's programming just is. Stuff like this can't be programmed, can it? That's way beyond anyone's thinking!

Todd

Fonzie · 11-15-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SunDancer
How many 4th Quarter comebacks did they have?

That's a good question. I also think it might be worth looking at their popularity and personality characteristics.

Travis · 11-15-2003, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MizzouRah
Axxon,

That would be unreal, but I think Farve just got ripped off. MVP's can be argued over in any sport, as it's very subjective.

If Jim programmed something like your are suggesting, I would be amazed at how intricate Jim's programming just is. Stuff like this can't be programmed, can it? That's way beyond anyone's thinking!

Todd

That kind of thing could be programmed in, depending on how in depth and analytical you want the program to be though, it could take a lot of time. If that is the answer, I honestly think it is great to take that kind of stuff into account. Then again, Favre may have just gotten ripped off and the game factors in QB rushing yards a little too heavily. Right now, I'm going for the cool answer

Axxon · 11-15-2003, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SunDancer
How many 4th Quarter comebacks did they have?

McNair had 4, Favre 1, but I don't think this is fair though. Favre rarely let the other teams in the game much less get the lead.

Axxon · 11-15-2003, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fonzie
That's a good question. I also think it might be worth looking at their popularity and personality characteristics.

Favre is idolized ( 100 ) with a fair (20) personality.

McNair is also idolized ( 100 ) with a strong ( 65 ) personality.

Really, I think it was that Favre was robbed but it is cool that after looking at it closely one can see the merit of making McNair the MVP.

Like Travis, until further review I'm going with the cool answer.

MizzouRah · 11-15-2003, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Like Travis, until further review I'm going with the cool answer.

Nothing wrong with that!

Todd

11-15-2003, 04:55 AM	#3
Axxon Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ	You know, I thought of that. IN fact, I'm not really criticizing the game at all because it's a judgement call. McNair rushed for 668 yds and 2 tds with a 7.0 ypc but... adding his rushing and his passing he still falls short of Favre's passing yds and tds alone. Again, I'd say Favre got robbed but it's certainly not unrealistic to think this could happen in real life. My impressions on the first season are a lot like that; there's some stuff that makes me go hmmm, but nothing that makes me go bs. Know what I mean? Now, I've also been thinking about peoples inflated passing numbers and down running and I can see it this season but not too extreme. But, does this mean that the engine is flawed?? I can't say. It's just as likely that the roster set is unbalanced and/or flawed. I'd need to see several more seasons and notice if there are any trends before I'd be ready to jump on this bandwagon but there does seem to be a bit of a passing trend with the current roster set. __________________ There are no houris, alas, in our heaven.

11-15-2003, 05:09 AM	#4
Travis Pro Rookie Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Canada eh	I don't have the game yet, but I'll throw this into the fray to see if it helps/hinders the discussion. How good were the supporting casts for Favre and McNair? If McNair put up his numbers behind say a vastly inferior line to Favre's, or with receivers that just aren't on the same level as the Rams, then that could be taken into consideration as well. Again, I'm just hoping it's something to that effect as that would be an awesome bit of coding to have the game take something like that into effect, as would happen in real life. __________________ "I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." - Rogers Hornsby

11-15-2003, 05:26 AM	#5
Axxon Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ	Good thought Travis. Let me take a look at that. Now, before I even look they were both playoff calibre teams and each got at least 12 wins in the season so we kinda have an all things being equal results wise. Lets see if I can break it down further. __________________ There are no houris, alas, in our heaven.

11-15-2003, 05:37 AM	#6
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Florida	McNair has won every All-Pro QB and League NFL in my career ( 3 years) I had Ricky Williams who ran for 1892 yds 11 tds with 781 cths 5tds still not win MVP, or OPofY hell Jay Feilder had a QB rating of 100.4 and didnt even get All League Seacond Team considering his talent level he should be MVP of the League. Oh and he played on a 13-3 team also super bowl champs. Oh well I'm still waiting to draft me a decent QB instead of these sorry bunchs who fake like one guess my system is good. __________________ Living in an Oligarchy.

11-15-2003, 05:52 AM	#7
Axxon Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ	Some simple stats to look at. Minnesota ( McNair ) had the 9th highest rushing total in the league and averaged 3.7 ypc. McNair was a huge part of that. Take out his yardage and they end up dead last in the league. Well, maybe not as I have no clue what other qb's were running for but at face value they drop to last. St Louis ( Favre ) finished 26th in the league in rushing and averaged 3.o ypc. Take out Favre's 119 and they'd have finished 30th. St Louis of course led the league in passing yds, yards per completion, yards per game, yards average while only finishing 10th in attempts. In the same categories Minnesota was 4th, 8th, 4th, 4th and 12th in attempts. St Louis receivers are: Randy Moss ( 75 current ) Peerless Price ( 73 ) Led league in catches, tds, yac, avg and td's Pollard ( 76 ) Minnesota: Kevin Johnson ( 55 ) Andre Johnson ( 51 ) Todd Heap ( 79 ) No Minnesota receiver had a top ten season in any meaningful categories. They had no 1000 yd receiver. No receiver over 6 tds. They had 7 receivers in triple digit yardage. They threw to everybody. St Louis had 6 in triple digits but behind Price ( 2022 14 tds ) and Moss ( 1262 7 tds ) only Pollard ( 701 7 tds ) contributed as much as any of the top six Minnesota receivers. OLine ratings as per my scout. Minn: 47 44 40 26 22 St Louis: 62 43 65 59 48 I don't know Travis, but it looks like you very well MAY be on to something there. That WOULD be huge wouldn't it? __________________ There are no houris, alas, in our heaven.

11-15-2003, 12:58 PM	#8
Travis Pro Rookie Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Canada eh	That would be very excellent. And it really does look like that O-Line may be what's forcing McNair to pull the ball down and scramble for yards instead of passing, which of course affects his passing totals. Good thing he has a TE that can catch, because it doesn't seem like that line will give him enough time to find a WR very often... __________________ "I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." - Rogers Hornsby

11-15-2003, 01:00 PM	#9
SunDancer College Benchwarmer Join Date: Sep 2002	How many 4th Quarter comebacks did they have?

11-15-2003, 01:09 PM	#10
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	Axxon, That would be unreal, but I think Farve just got ripped off. MVP's can be argued over in any sport, as it's very subjective. If Jim programmed something like your are suggesting, I would be amazed at how intricate Jim's programming just is. Stuff like this can't be programmed, can it? That's way beyond anyone's thinking! Todd Last edited by MizzouRah : 11-15-2003 at 01:10 PM.

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