What I Hate Most about FOF2004

yabanci · 11-18-2003, 03:49 PM

opening up the damn game. Opening window after window, moving everything around and getting it perfect. Then having to redo it every single time you open the game. It really sucks that the game is incapable of saving window positions.

VPI97 · 11-18-2003, 03:53 PM

Don't ever exit out of the game. Problem solved.

Maple Leafs · 11-18-2003, 03:53 PM

I don't mind having to open them each time. I do mind that the default placements for the windows require moving them. It it possible to fit everything neatly into one screen, so why doesn't the game do so (and let me resize or move them if necessary)?

Another annoyance: if you have windows overlapping, clicking on the "under" window doesn't necessarily move it to the front.

rlfreeze · 11-18-2003, 03:56 PM

That does it for me. I am not buying this game. What went wrong Jim? Everything looked so promising.

Bonegavel · 11-18-2003, 04:05 PM

This has been added to the list of "gimmies" I believe.

QuikSand · 11-18-2003, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bonegavel
This has been added to the list of "gimmies" I believe.

I'm not sure what that means... but I wouldn't be certain that this will get fixed. I have a sense that this has been a very tough problem to tackle... the different versions of Windows being a contributing factor (though I don't understand how or why). I know that Jim wanted to make the window position "remembered" but it caused lots of trouble in beta.

Bonegavel · 11-18-2003, 04:23 PM

This is listed in several threads (one is the Bug list, but it isn't a bug as you mention) so I called it a 'gimmie.'

The funny thing is that I thought this was a simple addition. Each window in every version of Windows can be fed information on where to be placed when it appears. Most times, it is simply written to the registry as coordinates for the upper left point. Depending on how Jim has over-ridden OnDraw(), the upper left of the screen is 0,0 (can change, but this is default I believe).

So, when the program exits, the code writes the last known coordinates for the dialog boxes to the registry, which are then read-back upon opening.

QuikSand · 11-18-2003, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bonegavel
This is listed in several threads (one is the Bug list, but it isn't a bug as you mention) so I called it a 'gimmie.'

The funny thing is that I thought this was a simple addition. Each window in every version of Windows can be fed information on where to be placed when it appears. Most times, it is simply written to the registry as coordinates for the upper left point. Depending on how Jim has over-ridden OnDraw(), the upper left of the screen is 0,0 (can change, but this is default I believe).

So, when the program exits, the code writes the last known coordinates for the dialog boxes to the registry, which are then read-back upon opening.

You clearly know more about the programming than I do, and it certainly sounds easy enough to me. It may not be so, though.

Daimyo · 11-18-2003, 05:01 PM

I think all these FOF complain threads are about the best advertising Jim can get for the game. If things like forgotten window position, incorrect QBR figured after 0 passing attempts, and slightly inflated passing stats are the chief complaints I take that to mean the rest of the game is tight.

yabanci · 11-18-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daimyo
I think all these FOF complain threads are about the best advertising Jim can get for the game. If things like forgotten window position, incorrect QBR figured after 0 passing attempts, and slightly inflated passing stats are the chief complaints I take that to mean the rest of the game is tight.

I sort of had that in mind when I titled the thread so strongly

FloridaFringe · 11-18-2003, 05:16 PM

My thinking over the past couple of days has been leaning more on the above statement as well. My wallet may be opening up just after the first patch is released dependant on what is addressed and what still remains.

Buccaneer · 11-18-2003, 06:37 PM

Have only one window open at a time. What's so hard about that?

yabanci · 11-18-2003, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buccaneer
Have only one window open at a time. What's so hard about that?

So you're saying open the roster window, then when you want to go to the almanac I should close the roster window and open the almanac, then close the almanac and open the roster again, always keeping only one window open at a time? Seems like even more of a pain in the ass.

Buccaneer · 11-18-2003, 06:45 PM

No, what I mean is that you really are only looking at one window at a time. When the game starts up, why should there be any windows open? You don't have to close any windows if you are viewing another, the one you are viewing temporarily will be closed anyways. You were talking about having many windows open at the same time and wanting to keep it that way. That doesn't make any sense.

yabanci · 11-18-2003, 06:50 PM

Maybe I just wasn't being clear. By "windows" I mean the roster menu, the almanac, the simulation menu, the depth chart menus, the options menu, etc. A lot of us call them windows when menus may be the better word.

Buccaneer · 11-18-2003, 06:55 PM

Ok, why have all of those menus open at the same time? Only open the Options Menu when you want to change something. Only have the Simulation Menu open when you are ready to simulate (or any other the othe submenus). If I assume that you access the Almanac Menu via the Roster menu, when you are done with the almanac, close it.

In part, this is part of my UI design preference when I develop. I prefer menu wizards and simplicity in layouts. No reason to clutter up the screen and wanting to keep it cluttered, imo.

yabanci · 11-18-2003, 06:57 PM

No thanks, I prefer everything open for easy access.

ISiddiqui · 11-18-2003, 07:10 PM

I agree... it's annoying that I have to reset all the menus when I restart the game.

Ben E Lou · 11-18-2003, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buccaneer
Ok, why have all of those menus open at the same time? Only open the Options Menu when you want to change something. Only have the Simulation Menu open when you are ready to simulate (or any other the othe submenus). If I assume that you access the Almanac Menu via the Roster menu, when you are done with the almanac, close it.

In part, this is part of my UI design preference when I develop. I prefer menu wizards and simplicity in layouts. No reason to clutter up the screen and wanting to keep it cluttered, imo.

Cluttered, schmuttered. Buc, you sound like my wife!!!

Everything is ONE click away when all the windows are on the desktop.

Flasch186 · 11-18-2003, 08:45 PM

Let me ask you this:

Is Jim going to slap passwords on the teams so that owners cant cheat by changing other peoples gameplans and uploading them to the Commish? If not it almost renders any competitve league unusable.

Commish
USFL

QuikSand · 11-18-2003, 08:50 PM

I don't think there is any way for you, as the owner of the Cardinals, to change the game plan for the Texans and submit a revised game plan on their behalf. And if you did do this somehow, the commish would have to accept that extra game stage file from you (with a file name that would be a giveaway) on his end. I don't think the system is going to be foolproof, necessarily, but I don't think it's at all likely that any team will end up cheating quite as easily as you seem to suggest.

Celeval · 11-18-2003, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Flasch186
Let me ask you this:

Is Jim going to slap passwords on the teams so that owners cant cheat by changing other peoples gameplans and uploading them to the Commish? If not it almost renders any competitve league unusable.

I think someone who's been playing indepth needs to answer this, but after some experimentation, I think I was wrong before.

There may be protection already built in via the league save/load. Has anyone done research into this yet?

I see how to add players to the league upon initialization, via the 'New Career', etc. How do you add a 'new' owner to the career, or change owners halfway through?

QuikSand · 11-18-2003, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buccaneer
Ok, why have all of those menus open at the same time?

I know you pride yourself as the guru of sensibe user interface design... but if your preference for playing FOF is to open up the roster menu, click a roster option, close the roster menu, open up the almanac, review the almanac item, close the alamanc menu, open up the simulation menu, run the game simulation, close the simulation menu, open up the roster menu again, click a roster option, close the roster menu... ad nauseum... then I'm glad that you're not designing the games that I play.

If I were forced to play this game the way you apparently choose to, I would rescind my many previous comments expressing indifference over interface design issues, and I'd be joining the bellyaching faction saying the game's UI made no sense for me.

I just can't see how all those extra steps make the game more enjoyable.

Dutch · 11-18-2003, 09:12 PM

....but you can enjoy the background image more!

Buccaneer · 11-18-2003, 09:17 PM

I think you guys are making too much of this. I can see only having one window/menu open at all times - Roster Commands. Let's take a look at the other ones.
Global Game Options - this is a one time deal (for the most part). No need to have this open at all times.
Roster Commands - each choice opens up a new window. View Rosters opens up the main roster screen. Most of the choices does not open a new window. The ones at the bottom do but they are basically single action screens (like Recommend and Cap List). All of the other Roster commands are basically the same way, just look at something and then Exit.
Depth Chart and Game Plan - only need to open when tweaking and none of those stay open. But for some, these series of screens are infrequently viewed.
Simulation Window - this is only opened during the pre-season and regular season and only for Simulate Games. All of the other screens are just look and exit types.
Email - probably a choice of whether to open and close, which is what I normally do with regular email programs. Only need to open when I have something to look at.
Almanac - okay, this I can see keeping up along with the Roster Commands. But still, each of these are your basic look and exit screens.
Multiplayer - no need to have open at all.

So, I see at most, two windows or menu systems: Roster Commands and Almanac. They take up perhaps 20% of the screen. FOF is a linear game (or at least how I like to play it). Things are done in order and there are appropriate screens for each task. If I am busy drafting, do I need to have the Simulation Window open? No. But if you want it open, just click on the icon and up it comes. Not too hard. When I'm done with the season and fully satisfied myself with the standings, no need to keep it open, is there?

Scoobz0202 · 11-18-2003, 09:19 PM

Just a little off-topic.. I hate the heartbreakers

Was 3-3. I am the Chiefs. Two games behind Denver.. 1 game behind Oakland.

Playing Oakland. Ahead by 7 going into 4th. Denver already lost this week. Could tie for second and be one behind first..

They came back. 12 seconds left. Tied up. Figured, what the hell.. lets put up a bomb... Intercepted by Woodson..for 65 yards and a TD. Game over.

Ben E Lou · 11-18-2003, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buccaneer
When I'm done with the season and fully satisfied myself with the standings, no need to keep it open, is there?

There is also no need to close it either, when you're just going to re-open it.

You must be one of those people who makes his bed every day...

QuikSand · 11-18-2003, 09:21 PM

Fair point - the way you play the game (with your rigid avoidance of anything that might be labeled as "micromanaging") it might well make sense to leave all the management tools (stuff that many of us use week to week) closed most of the time. I can see that, I guess. Not what I'd want to do, but for your style of play, not as serious an inconvenience.

Ben E Lou · 11-18-2003, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuikSand
Fair point - the way you play the game (with your rigid avoidance of anything that might be labeled as "micromanaging") it might well make sense to leave all the management tools (stuff that many of us use week to week) closed most of the time. I can see that, I guess. Not what I'd want to do, but for your style of play, not as serious an inconvenience.

Good point. I use Roster, Simulation, E-Mail, Almanac and Depth/Game Plans pretty much every week.

Buc loves to talk about customization, but odd that he still is trying to get us to play the game his way...

Buccaneer · 11-18-2003, 09:33 PM

FOF is all about the off-season and getting through the regular season as quickly as possible. What game are you guys playing???

All I am saying before you two got your panties in a bunch is that I like the way it is now, it works for me. If Jim makes it so that you can have stickied windows, that's fine too. I see both ways as viable instead of insisting that one has to play with all of the windows open and cluttering up the screen.

SnowMan · 11-18-2003, 09:34 PM

That's what I was gonna say. Isn't the point of this thread the ability to have it set the way I want it on startup, and the way Buc wants it on startup, and the way Jim wants it on startup, etc etc?

Buccaneer · 11-18-2003, 09:39 PM

But Jim didn't make it that way (I recall reading that it is difficult to do). I can see how it can be inconvenience for some but it's not that big of a deal the way it is now.

Ben E Lou · 11-18-2003, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buccaneer
FOF is all about the off-season and getting through the regular season as quickly as possible. What game are you guys playing???

Again, you're trying to get me to play the game your way.

Quote:

All I am saying before you two got your panties in a bunch is that I like the way it is now, it works for me.

...and what did this point have anything to do with others wanting stickied windows? You jumped in the thread with the brilliant idea of trying to get people to leave only one window open at a time.

Quote:

If Jim makes it so that you can have stickied windows, that's fine too. I see both ways as viable

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth: "Have only one window open at a time. What's so hard about that?"--Buccaneer, 3 hours ago.

Quote:

instead of insisting that one has to play with all of the windows open

No. You're the one who insisted that others shouldn't play that way

Quote:

and cluttering up the screen.

Again, you sound like my wife.

Buccaneer · 11-18-2003, 09:44 PM

Sigh.

SnowMan · 11-18-2003, 09:46 PM

I like pie

Daimyo · 11-18-2003, 09:50 PM

One window open at a time??

Worst. Idea. Ever.

Buccaneer · 11-18-2003, 09:50 PM

Here's my desktop

I think SkyDog's wife would approve.

Ben E Lou · 11-18-2003, 09:54 PM

Bet I can get to my files faster than you can.

korme · 11-18-2003, 09:56 PM

Bucc, you're crazy.

1) I use nearly every window every week of the season.

2) I like the season better than the offseason.

Buccaneer · 11-18-2003, 09:58 PM

Good lord!!!! You guys needs some serious counseling. j/k

korme · 11-18-2003, 09:59 PM

Wow SkyDog. Even I think that is a mess.

Bucc, that's too clean.

I am a tweener.

SnowMan · 11-18-2003, 09:59 PM

For the love of God, SkyDog......ever heard of keyboard shortcuts?

Ben E Lou · 11-18-2003, 10:00 PM

That was the desktop of the desktop.

Here's the laptop:

Buc, you may not believe it, but I know where every single icon is, so I can get to everything I need, without any visual searching, in one click.

Ben E Lou · 11-18-2003, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SnowMan
For the love of God, SkyDog......ever heard of keyboard shortcuts?

Yes, but I have an off-the-charts visual memory actually, so this is the easiest way to do it.

Daimyo · 11-18-2003, 10:03 PM

Well... its nice that the Front office football installer is right there in the middle for when you need it next!

Ben E Lou · 11-18-2003, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daimyo
Well... its nice that the Front office football installer is right there in the middle for when you need it next!

I tend to leave stuff up there for quite some time.

It'll be there in a year or so, most likely.

yabanci · 11-18-2003, 10:04 PM

skydog, those screenshots gave me a headache.

Buccaneer · 11-18-2003, 10:08 PM

This shows where my priorities are - besides internet and email and some Office stuff, it's all about games

Ben E Lou · 11-18-2003, 10:10 PM

Buccaneer · 11-18-2003, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SkyDog
Yes, but I have an off-the-charts visual memory actually, so this is the easiest way to do it.

And I've been known to have a one-track mind, hence, my arguments for keeping it simple.

11-18-2003, 03:53 PM	#2
VPI97 Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hi Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Kennesaw, GA	Don't ever exit out of the game. Problem solved. __________________ CT & Jivin - "Surprisingly Entertaining"

11-18-2003, 04:05 PM	#5
Bonegavel Awaiting Further Instructions... Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Macungie, PA	This has been added to the list of "gimmies" I believe. __________________

11-18-2003, 04:23 PM	#7
Bonegavel Awaiting Further Instructions... Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Macungie, PA	This is listed in several threads (one is the Bug list, but it isn't a bug as you mention) so I called it a 'gimmie.' The funny thing is that I thought this was a simple addition. Each window in every version of Windows can be fed information on where to be placed when it appears. Most times, it is simply written to the registry as coordinates for the upper left point. Depending on how Jim has over-ridden OnDraw(), the upper left of the screen is 0,0 (can change, but this is default I believe). So, when the program exits, the code writes the last known coordinates for the dialog boxes to the registry, which are then read-back upon opening. __________________

11-18-2003, 07:10 PM	#18
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	I agree... it's annoying that I have to reset all the menus when I restart the game. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

11-18-2003, 08:45 PM	#20
Flasch186 Coordinator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL	Let me ask you this: Is Jim going to slap passwords on the teams so that owners cant cheat by changing other peoples gameplans and uploading them to the Commish? If not it almost renders any competitve league unusable. Commish USFL __________________ Jacksonville-florida-homes-for-sale Putting a New Spin on Real Estate! ----------------------------------------------------------- Commissioner of the USFL USFL

11-18-2003, 03:53 PM	#3
Maple Leafs Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002	I don't mind having to open them each time. I do mind that the default placements for the windows require moving them. It it possible to fit everything neatly into one screen, so why doesn't the game do so (and let me resize or move them if necessary)? Another annoyance: if you have windows overlapping, clicking on the "under" window doesn't necessarily move it to the front.

11-18-2003, 03:56 PM	#4
rlfreeze n00b Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Grenoble, France	That does it for me. I am not buying this game. What went wrong Jim? Everything looked so promising.

11-18-2003, 05:01 PM	#9
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	I think all these FOF complain threads are about the best advertising Jim can get for the game. If things like forgotten window position, incorrect QBR figured after 0 passing attempts, and slightly inflated passing stats are the chief complaints I take that to mean the rest of the game is tight.

11-18-2003, 05:16 PM	#11
FloridaFringe H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Fort Lauderdale Fla	My thinking over the past couple of days has been leaning more on the above statement as well. My wallet may be opening up just after the first patch is released dependant on what is addressed and what still remains.

11-18-2003, 06:37 PM	#12
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Have only one window open at a time. What's so hard about that?

11-18-2003, 06:45 PM	#14
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	No, what I mean is that you really are only looking at one window at a time. When the game starts up, why should there be any windows open? You don't have to close any windows if you are viewing another, the one you are viewing temporarily will be closed anyways. You were talking about having many windows open at the same time and wanting to keep it that way. That doesn't make any sense.

11-18-2003, 06:50 PM	#15
yabanci College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2003	Maybe I just wasn't being clear. By "windows" I mean the roster menu, the almanac, the simulation menu, the depth chart menus, the options menu, etc. A lot of us call them windows when menus may be the better word.

11-18-2003, 06:55 PM	#16
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Ok, why have all of those menus open at the same time? Only open the Options Menu when you want to change something. Only have the Simulation Menu open when you are ready to simulate (or any other the othe submenus). If I assume that you access the Almanac Menu via the Roster menu, when you are done with the almanac, close it. In part, this is part of my UI design preference when I develop. I prefer menu wizards and simplicity in layouts. No reason to clutter up the screen and wanting to keep it cluttered, imo.

11-18-2003, 06:57 PM	#17
yabanci College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2003	No thanks, I prefer everything open for easy access.

11-18-2003, 08:50 PM	#21
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I don't think there is any way for you, as the owner of the Cardinals, to change the game plan for the Texans and submit a revised game plan on their behalf. And if you did do this somehow, the commish would have to accept that extra game stage file from you (with a file name that would be a giveaway) on his end. I don't think the system is going to be foolproof, necessarily, but I don't think it's at all likely that any team will end up cheating quite as easily as you seem to suggest.

11-18-2003, 09:12 PM	#24
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	....but you can enjoy the background image more!

11-18-2003, 09:17 PM	#25
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	I think you guys are making too much of this. I can see only having one window/menu open at all times - Roster Commands. Let's take a look at the other ones. Global Game Options - this is a one time deal (for the most part). No need to have this open at all times. Roster Commands - each choice opens up a new window. View Rosters opens up the main roster screen. Most of the choices does not open a new window. The ones at the bottom do but they are basically single action screens (like Recommend and Cap List). All of the other Roster commands are basically the same way, just look at something and then Exit. Depth Chart and Game Plan - only need to open when tweaking and none of those stay open. But for some, these series of screens are infrequently viewed. Simulation Window - this is only opened during the pre-season and regular season and only for Simulate Games. All of the other screens are just look and exit types. Email - probably a choice of whether to open and close, which is what I normally do with regular email programs. Only need to open when I have something to look at. Almanac - okay, this I can see keeping up along with the Roster Commands. But still, each of these are your basic look and exit screens. Multiplayer - no need to have open at all. So, I see at most, two windows or menu systems: Roster Commands and Almanac. They take up perhaps 20% of the screen. FOF is a linear game (or at least how I like to play it). Things are done in order and there are appropriate screens for each task. If I am busy drafting, do I need to have the Simulation Window open? No. But if you want it open, just click on the icon and up it comes. Not too hard. When I'm done with the season and fully satisfied myself with the standings, no need to keep it open, is there?

11-18-2003, 09:19 PM	#26
Scoobz0202 Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dayton, Ohio	Just a little off-topic.. I hate the heartbreakers Was 3-3. I am the Chiefs. Two games behind Denver.. 1 game behind Oakland. Playing Oakland. Ahead by 7 going into 4th. Denver already lost this week. Could tie for second and be one behind first.. They came back. 12 seconds left. Tied up. Figured, what the hell.. lets put up a bomb... Intercepted by Woodson..for 65 yards and a TD. Game over.

11-18-2003, 09:21 PM	#28
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Fair point - the way you play the game (with your rigid avoidance of anything that might be labeled as "micromanaging") it might well make sense to leave all the management tools (stuff that many of us use week to week) closed most of the time. I can see that, I guess. Not what I'd want to do, but for your style of play, not as serious an inconvenience.

11-18-2003, 09:33 PM	#30
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	FOF is all about the off-season and getting through the regular season as quickly as possible. What game are you guys playing??? All I am saying before you two got your panties in a bunch is that I like the way it is now, it works for me. If Jim makes it so that you can have stickied windows, that's fine too. I see both ways as viable instead of insisting that one has to play with all of the windows open and cluttering up the screen.

11-18-2003, 09:34 PM	#31
SnowMan High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Georgia via Alaska via Washington	That's what I was gonna say. Isn't the point of this thread the ability to have it set the way I want it on startup, and the way Buc wants it on startup, and the way Jim wants it on startup, etc etc?

11-18-2003, 09:39 PM	#32
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	But Jim didn't make it that way (I recall reading that it is difficult to do). I can see how it can be inconvenience for some but it's not that big of a deal the way it is now.

11-18-2003, 09:44 PM	#34
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Sigh.

11-18-2003, 09:46 PM	#35
SnowMan High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Georgia via Alaska via Washington	I like pie

11-18-2003, 09:50 PM	#36
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	One window open at a time?? Worst. Idea. Ever.

11-18-2003, 09:50 PM	#37
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Here's my desktop I think SkyDog's wife would approve. Last edited by Buccaneer : 11-18-2003 at 09:50 PM.

11-18-2003, 09:54 PM	#38
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Bet I can get to my files faster than you can. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! Last edited by Ben E Lou : 11-18-2003 at 09:55 PM.

11-18-2003, 09:56 PM	#39
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Bucc, you're crazy. 1) I use nearly every window every week of the season. 2) I like the season better than the offseason.

11-18-2003, 09:58 PM	#40
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Good lord!!!! You guys needs some serious counseling. j/k

11-18-2003, 09:59 PM	#41
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Wow SkyDog. Even I think that is a mess. Bucc, that's too clean. I am a tweener.

11-18-2003, 10:00 PM	#43
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	That was the desktop of the desktop. Here's the laptop: Buc, you may not believe it, but I know where every single icon is, so I can get to everything I need, without any visual searching, in one click. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

11-18-2003, 10:03 PM	#45
Daimyo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Berkeley	Well... its nice that the Front office football installer is right there in the middle for when you need it next!

11-18-2003, 10:04 PM	#47
yabanci College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2003	skydog, those screenshots gave me a headache.

11-18-2003, 10:08 PM	#48
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	This shows where my priorities are - besides internet and email and some Office stuff, it's all about games

11-18-2003, 10:10 PM	#49
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Wow! __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!