Bush went to Baghdad?

[mrskippy]

Damn!!! Amazing, how they pulled that off. NBC broke into the Macy's parade with a Special Report. Though, even with all the secrecy, it seems like a risky move to me.

[maximus]

Just goes to show you thatr our president isn't a sissy. lol

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

[mrskippy]

Hopefully his visit will boost troop morale a little.

[maximus]

Originally posted by maximus
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

..and that includes you too SkyDog. I still love ya bro.

[chinaski]

yea, he's just a sneaky lieing scum bag!

[BigJohn&TheLions]

Iraq is safe for Bush. They don't have pretzels there...

[Leonidas]

Bush has a knack for when he seems to be stumbling the most to pull something like this out of his butt. Lots of behind the scenes things going on in the Middle East that make this just the perfect time for such a thing. Al Qaeda and the opposition in Iraq really thought they were getting the upper hand in the media, then this. They have Al Jezeera showing vidoes of them supposedly shooting down planes around Baghdad, then all of the sudden AF1 jets into BIAP with no sweat. This has a much larger impact than most in the West will ever realize.

[CamEdwards]

I've been thinking the same thing, Leonidas. In fact, I just wrote (at another website)

"I don't think it was all a photo-op, but you'd have to be pretty stupid not to see the public relations benefit in this. The real question is... who was intended to see this message?

I'll argue that this has nothing to do with the election next year. You won't see Bush shaking hands of soldiers in Baghdad during a campaign commercial (unless it's one the Democrats run... kind of like the new John Kerry ad). No, this photo-op is another piece of the War on Terror. It's our answer to the audiotapes by Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.

Think about it. This is the equivalent of Osama or Saddam showing up on the campus of Berkeley, a Wahabist mosque in Houston, or some similar "safe location" within the United States. Our president went into Baghdad and addressed the troops, saying:

'We did not charge hundreds of miles through the heart of Iraq, pay a bitter cost of casualties, defeat a ruthless dictator and liberate 25 million people only to retreat before a band of thugs and assassins.

We will prevail. We will win because our cause is just. We will win because we will stay on the offensive.'

Great for the troops to hear. Even better for our enemies to hear the words of the president.

[Nyarlahotep]

Originally posted by chinaski
yea, he's just a sneaky lieing scum bag!

Isn't this a little redundant as we are speaking about a president?

[sabotai]

Anyone else get the feeling that Cam would be first in line to give Bush a handjob if he requested one?

[kcchief19]

You saying he hasn't already?

[portnoise]

It's amazing to me that there are people who don't see this for the blatant propaganda move it so clearly is.

[EagleFan]

Dear God, please give me the wisdom of portnoise...

[Dutch]

In Turkey, my family and I were under constant threat conditions, my kids were bused to school escorted by armed turkish soldiers, my car was checked for bombs at home and work facilities every single time I entered either, and I had the displeasure of being a couple of blocks away from a double bomb blast in Ankara that injured 17 Turks, some with loss limb, hearing, sight....just nasty tactics these terrorists use.

But that's just being in the enviroment, the terrorists in Turkey have generally targeted Turks, not Americans. But a visit from Colin Powell was uplifting to our mission there and provided us focus.

Now, the real deal in Iraq, we can complain about Bush all we want about him "vote grabbing again", but the importance of the President of the USA going to visit troops in Iraq is huge. It's uplifting. To a solider, a visit by the President is like a visit by the Pope to Catholics. It means alot. Let's remember that these guys are dying over there and tracking down terrorists in the nastiest parts of Iraq. They will be there on December 25th and January 1st as well.

So before we bag on our President for going and saying thanks, think about the troops who truly appreciate his gesture before you politicize it as worthless.

And with half the military being Democrats these days, it's not a partisan issue. I'm sure everybody was glad to see Senator Clinton visit the troops in Afghanistan as well. I'm sure somebody could say she's trying to raise her own popularity, but I think she probably is showing her support for the troops as a leader of our country. That should be as far as the investigation into motive should go. At least as far as I'm concerned anyway.

Happy Thankgiving everyone!

[Anthony]

are you kidding me portnoise. i'm the last one to say"YAY! let's go Bush!", but this was very necessary and whatever it aimed to pull off it accomplished. i don't condone us being in Iraq, but even when i woke up and saw him in Iraq i was impressed.

he's lots of things, but he's no coward. he has a great way of pulling off these things every once in a while. the last time i felt proud to have Bush as our president was during the World Series 2 years ago after 9/11 when he threw out the first pitch. sure, he was packing some major bullet-proofing under his jacket, but what he did was so inspriring.

let the terrorists say what they will - but our president just barged into their country to motivate our troops on our nations' most important holiday outside of July 4th. it says a lot, even if it was just him giving his tired old "we'll stay the course" routine.

[Ben E Lou]

I wonder if the DE-moralizing effect this could have on the resistance fighters/terrorists ("Damn, we've been doing everything we can, and Bush himself shows up and says they won't back out.") will be even greater than the morale boost for our troops. Like him or not, (and lately I've been rather displeased over his general over-governmentalization and the political posturing of the senior prescription debacle,) this was probably as stunning, brilliant and gutsy of a move that we've seen out of a President in our life time.

[sabotai]

Originally posted by SkyDog
I wonder if the DE-moralizing effect this could have on the resistance fighters/terrorists ("Damn, we've been doing everything we can, and Bush himself shows up and says they won't back out.") will be even greater than the morale boost for our troops. Like him or not, (and lately I've been rather displeased over his general over-governmentalization and the political posturing of the senior prescription debacle,) this was probably as stunning, brilliant and gutsy of a move that we've seen out of a President in our life time.

The Deleware-moralizing effect?

Seriously, after all that we have done to the terrorists, they are still willing to do what they do. I highly doubt it's even possible to demoralize them. If anything, it'll make them focus more. These guys are willing to strap bombs to their chests and go die for what they beleive. I just don't see how this (as opposed to everything else) would make them think twice about doing what they do.

If anything, it'll piss them off more.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by sabotai
Seriously, after all that we have done to the terrorists, they are still willing to do what they do. I highly doubt it's even possible to demoralize them. If anything, it'll make them focus more. These guys are willing to strap bombs to their chests and go die for what they beleive. I just don't see how this (as opposed to everything else) would make them think twice about doing what they do.

If anything, it'll piss them off more.

You may be right there. It definitely remains to be seen, but it is hard for me to see this as anything but a very good move by Dubya.

[chinaski]

sorry if this has been posted here before.

---------------------------------------------------------
GUESS WHO I AM?

*I attacked and took over 2 countries.

*I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the US
Treasury.

*I shattered the record for the biggest annual
deficit in history (not easy!).

*I set an economic record for the most personal
bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

*I set all-time record for the biggest drop in
the history of the stock market.

*I am the first president in decades to execute a
federal prisoner.

*In my first year in office I set the all-time
record for most days on vacation by any president
in US history (tough to beat my dad's, but I
did).

*After taking the entire month of August off for
vacation, I presided over the worst security
failure in US history.

*I set the record for most campaign fund raising
trips by any president in US history.

*In my first two years in office over 2 million
Americans lost their jobs.

*I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work
Americans than any other president in US history.

*I set the all-time record for most real estate
foreclosures in a 12-month period.

*I appointed more convicted criminals to
administration positions than any president in US
history.

*I set the record for the fewest press
conferences of any president, since the advent of
TV.

*I signed more laws and executive orders amending
the Constitution than any other US president in
history.

*I presided over the biggest energy crises in US
history and refused to intervene when corruption
was revealed.

*I cut health care benefits for war veterans.

*I set the all-time record for most people
worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets
to protest me (15 million people), shattering the
record for protest against any person in the
history of mankind.

*I dissolved more international treaties than any
president in US history.

*I've made my presidency the most secretive and
unaccountable of any in US history.

*Members of my cabinet are the richest of any
administration in US history. (The poorest
multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron
oil tanker named after her.)

*I am the first president in US history to have
all 50 states of the Union simultaneously
struggle against bankruptcy.

*I presided over the biggest corporate stock
market fraud in any market in any country in the
history of the world.

*I am the first president in US history to order
a US attack AND military occupation of a
sovereign nation, and I did so against the will
of the United Nations and the vast majority of
the international community.

*I have created the largest government department
bureaucracy in the history of the United States,
called the "Bureau of Homeland Security"(only one
letter away from BS).

*I set the all-time record for biggest annual
budget spending increases, more than any other
president in US history (Ronnie was tough to
beat, but I did it!!).

*I am the first president in US history to compel
the United Nations remove the US from the Human
Rights Commission.

*I am the first president in US history to have
the United Nations remove the US from the
Elections Monitoring Board.

*I removed more checks and balances, and have the
least amount of congressional oversight than any
presidential administration in US history.

*I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
I withdrew from the World Court of Law.

*I refused to allow inspectors access to US
prisoners of war and by default no longer abide
by the Geneva Conventions.

*I am the first president in US history to refuse
United Nations election inspectors access during
the 2002 US elections.

*I am the all-time US (and world) record holder
for most corporate campaign donations.

*The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign,
who is also one of my best friends, presided over
one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in
world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron
Corporation).

*I spent more money on polls and focus groups
than any president in US history.

*I am the first president to run and hide when
the US came under attack (and then lied, saying
the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

*I am the first US president to establish a
secret shadow government.

*I took the world's sympathy for the US after
9/11, and in less than a year made the US the
most resented country in the world (possibly the
biggest diplomatic failure in US and world
history).

*I am the first US president in history to have a
majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my
presidency as the biggest threat to world peace
and stability.

*I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals
to be awarded government contracts.

*I set the all-time record for the number of
administration appointees who violated US law by
not selling their huge investments in
corporations bidding for gov't contracts.

*I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties
for Americans than any other president in US
history.

*I entered office with the strongest economy in
US history and in less than two years turned
every single economic category heading straight
down.

*RECORDS AND REFERENCES: I have at least one
conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas
driving record has been erased and is not
available).

*I was AWOL from the National Guard and deserted
the military during time of war.

*I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any
questions about drug use. (wink,wink)

*All records of my tenure as governor of Texas
have been spirited away to my fathers library,
sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
view.

*All records of any SEC investigations into my
insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed
in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

*All minutes of meetings of any public
corporation for which I served on the board are
sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
view.

*Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my
VP) attended regarding public energy policy are
sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
review.

With Love,
GEORGE W. BUSH
The White House, Washington, DC

[Dutch]

Seriously, after all that we have done to the terrorists, they are still willing to do what they do. I highly doubt it's even possible to demoralize them. If anything, it'll make them focus more. These guys are willing to strap bombs to their chests and go die for what they beleive. I just don't see how this (as opposed to everything else) would make them think twice about doing what they do.

If anything, it'll piss them off more.

However, you were going to say....the better choice would been what? I didn't catch the rest of your thought process...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by chinaski
Blah....blah....blah

And if you can tell me how this post has any bearing whatsoever on the topic at hand, I'll take it into account.

[Dutch]

chinaski

Is that Russian?

[sabotai]

Originally posted by Dutch
However, you were going to say....the better choice would been what? I didn't catch the rest of your thought process...

Ok. Quote me where I said what he did was a mistake, or it was the wrong move.

EDIT: Kind of went overboard there...must be all those hormones they pump turkeys full of. (Ate a lot of turkey tonight...)

[TroyF]

Chinaski's post typifies the attitudes of the far left and right in our country. I can tell you I'll respect Hell Atlantic bashing Bush over a decision than I will Chinaski. He at least has the ability to look at both sides of the equation and see that Bush isn't the Anti-Christ.

Honestly, is it Bush's fault that all the dot.coms blew sky high? I mean, are you REALLY stupid enough to believe that?

If this pisses the terrorists off more, so be it. It's important that our troops understand their leader is behind them. It's important the citizens of Iraq know that we aren't going to run away and leave them with the same dictator the way we did the last time. And yes, it is important that those terrorists attacking our troops understand that their "mission" is failing.

The far right and the far left are things I could do without. Yet I realize even they serve a purpose.

TroyF

[sabotai]

Troy, I agree. I liked the move. It is important to keep the morale of the troops and the people of Iraq high.

[maximus]

Originally posted by chinaski
sorry if this has been posted here before.

---------------------------------------------------------
GUESS WHO I AM?

*I attacked and took over 2 countries.

*I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the US
Treasury.

*I shattered the record for the biggest annual
deficit in history (not easy!).

*I set an economic record for the most personal
bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

*I set all-time record for the biggest drop in
the history of the stock market.

*I am the first president in decades to execute a
federal prisoner.

*In my first year in office I set the all-time
record for most days on vacation by any president
in US history (tough to beat my dad's, but I
did).

*After taking the entire month of August off for
vacation, I presided over the worst security
failure in US history.

*I set the record for most campaign fund raising
trips by any president in US history.

*In my first two years in office over 2 million
Americans lost their jobs.

*I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work
Americans than any other president in US history.

*I set the all-time record for most real estate
foreclosures in a 12-month period.

*I appointed more convicted criminals to
administration positions than any president in US
history.

*I set the record for the fewest press
conferences of any president, since the advent of
TV.

*I signed more laws and executive orders amending
the Constitution than any other US president in
history.

*I presided over the biggest energy crises in US
history and refused to intervene when corruption
was revealed.

*I cut health care benefits for war veterans.

*I set the all-time record for most people
worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets
to protest me (15 million people), shattering the
record for protest against any person in the
history of mankind.

*I dissolved more international treaties than any
president in US history.

*I've made my presidency the most secretive and
unaccountable of any in US history.

*Members of my cabinet are the richest of any
administration in US history. (The poorest
multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron
oil tanker named after her.)

*I am the first president in US history to have
all 50 states of the Union simultaneously
struggle against bankruptcy.

*I presided over the biggest corporate stock
market fraud in any market in any country in the
history of the world.

*I am the first president in US history to order
a US attack AND military occupation of a
sovereign nation, and I did so against the will
of the United Nations and the vast majority of
the international community.

*I have created the largest government department
bureaucracy in the history of the United States,
called the "Bureau of Homeland Security"(only one
letter away from BS).

*I set the all-time record for biggest annual
budget spending increases, more than any other
president in US history (Ronnie was tough to
beat, but I did it!!).

*I am the first president in US history to compel
the United Nations remove the US from the Human
Rights Commission.

*I am the first president in US history to have
the United Nations remove the US from the
Elections Monitoring Board.

*I removed more checks and balances, and have the
least amount of congressional oversight than any
presidential administration in US history.

*I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
I withdrew from the World Court of Law.

*I refused to allow inspectors access to US
prisoners of war and by default no longer abide
by the Geneva Conventions.

*I am the first president in US history to refuse
United Nations election inspectors access during
the 2002 US elections.

*I am the all-time US (and world) record holder
for most corporate campaign donations.

*The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign,
who is also one of my best friends, presided over
one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in
world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron
Corporation).

*I spent more money on polls and focus groups
than any president in US history.

*I am the first president to run and hide when
the US came under attack (and then lied, saying
the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

*I am the first US president to establish a
secret shadow government.

*I took the world's sympathy for the US after
9/11, and in less than a year made the US the
most resented country in the world (possibly the
biggest diplomatic failure in US and world
history).

*I am the first US president in history to have a
majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my
presidency as the biggest threat to world peace
and stability.

*I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals
to be awarded government contracts.

*I set the all-time record for the number of
administration appointees who violated US law by
not selling their huge investments in
corporations bidding for gov't contracts.

*I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties
for Americans than any other president in US
history.

*I entered office with the strongest economy in
US history and in less than two years turned
every single economic category heading straight
down.

*RECORDS AND REFERENCES: I have at least one
conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas
driving record has been erased and is not
available).

*I was AWOL from the National Guard and deserted
the military during time of war.

*I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any
questions about drug use. (wink,wink)

*All records of my tenure as governor of Texas
have been spirited away to my fathers library,
sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
view.

*All records of any SEC investigations into my
insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed
in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

*All minutes of meetings of any public
corporation for which I served on the board are
sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
view.

*Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my
VP) attended regarding public energy policy are
sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public
review.

With Love,
GEORGE W. BUSH
The White House, Washington, DC

THIS POST SUCKS!

[chinaski]

a little off topic, but i sensed some anti and pro bush sentiments and just thought id throw this out there.

some of the statements in that post are a pretty broad and dont carry much weight, but a good deal of them are dead on facts. i dont think dubya caused the stock market too crash, but theres is no denying enron played a major role. i think its a interesting read, none the less.

im not a democrat or republican, i look at both sides with the same amount of disgust.

back to the topic of bush over baghdad. how can this be considered brave? he flew in, walked about 100 yards from his plane, slung some chow and came back home. broadcasted during the most watched event on thanksgiving, the macys day parade. i truely hope it boosted the morale of those unfortunate enough to have to stay behind, but other than.. bfd.

[Vince]

Originally posted by chinaski
back to the topic of bush over baghdad. how can this be considered brave? he flew in, walked about 100 yards from his plane, slung some chow and came back home. broadcasted during the most watched event on thanksgiving, the macys day parade. i truely hope it boosted the morale of those unfortunate enough to have to stay behind, but other than.. bfd.

Wow...as if the first post in the thread weren't bad enough...

Are you kidding me? Seriously? You really think that it was a walk in the park to get him over there, and he was at no risk?

[CamEdwards]

Originally posted by sabotai
Troy, I agree. I liked the move. It is important to keep the morale of the troops and the people of Iraq high.

yet you accuse me of wanting to give Bush a handjob because I agree with you. Unbelievable.

I don't love ANY politician, sabotai. I just happen to think that out of the nine choices we have to be our president for the next four years, this guy's the best choice. Does that mean he's perfect? Of course not... just means (in my opinion) he's the best option we have available to us.

And Chinaski... if I pony up the money, will you make that same trip?

[TroyF]

Originally posted by chinaski
a little off topic, but i sensed some anti and pro bush sentiments and just thought id throw this out there.

some of the statements in that post are a pretty broad and dont carry much weight, but a good deal of them are dead on facts. i dont think dubya caused the stock market too crash, but theres is no denying enron played a major role. i think its a interesting read, none the less.

im not a democrat or republican, i look at both sides with the same amount of disgust.

back to the topic of bush over baghdad. how can this be considered brave? he flew in, walked about 100 yards from his plane, slung some chow and came back home. broadcasted during the most watched event on thanksgiving, the macys day parade. i truely hope it boosted the morale of those unfortunate enough to have to stay behind, but other than.. bfd.

Even "facts" need to be taken in context.

Here are just a couple of your facts:


*After taking the entire month of August off for
vacation, I presided over the worst security
failure in US history.

I'm not going to even bother with getting into the vacation part of this. If you think a president ever really has a vacation, you have more issues than I could debate anyway. What exactly did he have to do with 9/11? Do you think he reads every single memo or conversation the FBI or CIA gathers?

or how about this gem:

*In my first two years in office over 2 million
Americans lost their jobs.

Ok, that's a fact. WHY did this happen? Did GW have anything to do with this on a personal level? I mean, it couldn't have been because of 9/11, the dot.com bankruptcies and a stock market level that was too high and ready for a collapse long before any of that even took place could it?

Oh, that's right, Bush is to blame for 9/11 because he was on vacation in August.

I'm sure if I came up with some more "facts" I could blame George W. Bush for every problem that has occured in the world over the past two years. He's EVIL!!! EVIL I SAY!!!!

Get a grip. If you disagree with the policies of this administration, the more power to you. I'll even be more than happy to engage a discussion of those issues and will even agree with you on a few.

If you want to buy into 15 word blurbs trying to portray the guy as a cross between Adolph Hitler and a retarted redneck, there is no way any of us will be able to hold a serious discussion with you.

TroyF

[HornedFrog Purple]

I agree this is a great thing for our soldiers, but it does nothing to change my opinion on gross overspending, dubious business practices and outright lying to the American people on other facets of this administration.

Like my dad said, anyone who can make the Texas Rangers worse when he was done with them doesn't deserve to be President.

[Senator]

Eddie Chiles?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally posted by Hell Atlantic
he's lots of things, but he's no coward. he has a great way of pulling off these things every once in a while. the last time i felt proud to have Bush as our president was during the World Series 2 years ago after 9/11 when he threw out the first pitch. sure, he was packing some major bullet-proofing under his jacket, but what he did was so inspriring.

Funny you'd mention that, it was the first thing that came to mind when I heard about the Baghdad visit. I think it's a fair comparison. I remember in the days after 9/11, people weren't sure what to do - can I go to sporting events, can I get on a plane, can I go outside? Having the president walk right out in front of 50,000 people without batting an eye sent the perfect message.

Compare that to the infamous jet landing, which seemed like an over-the-top PR move at the time and in hindsight comes off even worse ("major combat is over!"). Having Bush grinning like a child in his flight suit didn't help.

The Baghdad trip was a PR move to be sure, but sometimes you need some good PR (for the public's sake, and for the troops). PR is a hit-and-miss game. I think this one was a hit.

[portnoise]

I just wonder how people can say "good move" about this turkey thing when it was so obviously a photo op that couldn't actually change anything about what is still a bad situation in Iraq that Bush got the US into. Iraq is still in chaos, soldiers die daily, much of the world is still angry with the US, and no amount of stovetop stuffing is going to change that.

It's no secret Bush (and friends) like to obscure the truth by putting brave facades on bad situations. The "Clean Skies Act" allows for more corporate pollution; the "Patriot Act" allows the government to invade people's privacy. This was another example: "the president is a good guy who provides turkey to homesick troops at great risk to himself" instead of "the president starts wars without consensus, proof, or a plan for what happens afterward".

But I don't think most people were fooled by things like this, and yet we say "good move" about the turkey-- WHY? Did it really make us think Bush is one with the brave tragic soldiers? Or could it be that each of us thinking "public opinion of Bush is going to improve" makes us raise our personal opinions of him along with everyone else? Or are there really people who believe cranberry sauce actually matters when all it can change are opinions and, maybe, Bush's approval ratings?

Did I mention I've been teaching Orwell in my english class?

[CamEdwards]

Originally posted by portnoise
I just wonder how people can say "good move" about this turkey thing when it was so obviously a photo op that couldn't actually change anything about what is still a bad situation in Iraq that Bush got the US into. Iraq is still in chaos, soldiers die daily, much of the world is still angry with the US, and no amount of stovetop stuffing is going to change that.

It's no secret Bush (and friends) like to obscure the truth by putting brave facades on bad situations. The "Clean Skies Act" allows for more corporate pollution; the "Patriot Act" allows the government to invade people's privacy. This was another example: "the president is a good guy who provides turkey to homesick troops at great risk to himself" instead of "the president starts wars without consensus, proof, or a plan for what happens afterward".

But I don't think most people were fooled by things like this, and yet we say "good move" about the turkey-- WHY? Did it really make us think Bush is one with the brave tragic soldiers? Or could it be that each of us thinking "public opinion of Bush is going to improve" makes us raise our personal opinions of him along with everyone else? Or are there really people who believe cranberry sauce actually matters when all it can change are opinions and, maybe, Bush's approval ratings?

Did I mention I've been teaching Orwell in my english class?

I don't think anybody here has said their opinion of Bush has changed because of this. I think people have said it was a good thing to do, it was the right thing to do, and yes it was a courageous thing to do.

There's a dig about critical thinking and reading comprehension to be made... but I'm just going to let it go today (being the compassionate conservative that I am).

[portnoise]

Originally posted by CamEdwards


I don't think anybody here has said their opinion of Bush has changed because of this. I think people have said it was a good thing to do, it was the right thing to do, and yes it was a courageous thing to do.

There's a dig about critical thinking and reading comprehension to be made... but I'm just going to let it go today (being the compassionate conservative that I am).

You can make the dig, Cam. I don't mind, being the laissez-faire canadian that I am.

But I think we can only see the stunt as "the right thing to do" if we don't see it as being motivated by the recent bad news coming out of Iraq and/or the upcoming election. And I think it was definitely motivated by both those things; don't you?

Maybe I was going overboard in saying this stunt could totally change people's opinions. What it does do is subtly distract us from the continuing suckiness of the situation.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally posted by portnoise
But I think we can only see the stunt as "the right thing to do" if we don't see it as being motivated by the recent bad news coming out of Iraq and/or the upcoming election. And I think it was definitely motivated by both those things; don't you?

Of course it was motivated by recent events in Iraq. You can't disregard it on that basis. If they didn't react to those events, they'd be accused of being non-responsive, of ignoring what was going on.

So does it distract us from a bad situation, or does it offer some sort of evidence that maybe the situation wasn't as bad as we've been lead to believe? Obviously, we won't know the real answer any time soon.

[rexallllsc]

Originally posted by chinaski

some of the statements in that post are a pretty broad and dont carry much weight, but a good deal of them are dead on facts. i dont think dubya caused the stock market too crash, but theres is no denying enron played a major role. i think its a interesting read, none the less.

Not really a Bush supporter, but the market went bad in March 2000...Billy was still in there...

[sabotai]

Originally posted by CamEdwards
yet you accuse me of wanting to give Bush a handjob because I agree with you. Unbelievable.

Yup...becuase of this one and only time that you go and overly praise Bush...that's why I said it...

I don't love ANY politician, sabotai. I just happen to think that out of the nine choices we have to be our president for the next four years, this guy's the best choice. Does that mean he's perfect? Of course not... just means (in my opinion) he's the best option we have available to us.

Then show it. Rip into Bush and the republicans. When he does something you think is horrible, verbally rip his head off with the same passion that you rip into the teachers unions. All I get from you and several others is an attitude that no republican can do anything wrong and every single problem that exists is because of the democrats and how they "hate America" (not your words). That's why I said what I said before...

And Chinaski... if I pony up the money, will you make that same trip?

While it may have had some danger to it, there is no way that the secret service or the military lets the President go unless they can reasonbly ensure his safety. If you can get the money for me to make the same trip, with the same secret service and military preperation and security, I for one will go.

[CamEdwards]

Originally posted by sabotai
Yup...becuase of this one and only time that you go and overly praise Bush...that's why I said it...



Then show it. Rip into Bush and the republicans. When he does something you think is horrible, verbally rip his head off with the same passion that you rip into the teachers unions. All I get from you and several others is an attitude that no republican can do anything wrong and every single problem that exists is because of the democrats and how they "hate America" (not your words). That's why I said what I said before...



While it may have had some danger to it, there is no way that the secret service or the military lets the President go unless they can reasonbly ensure his safety. If you can get the money for me to make the same trip, with the same secret service and military preperation and security, I for one will go.

First of all, I rarely start threads praising President Bush. I usually chime into threads and "defend" the President. There is a difference.

Secondly, despite the fact that I don't agree with NCLB, his stance on things like steel tariffs, and his refusal to actually veto a piece of legislation... I still think he's the best option available. I don't see a reason or a need to bash the guy that I think can do the best job.

Thirdly, a reasonable guarantee of safety isn't a guarantee of safety and you know it. If you're serious about going... I'd suggest running for president. Who knows, I might find you more palatable than the nine other declared candidates.

[sabotai]

Originally posted by CamEdwards
First of all, I rarely start threads praising President Bush. I usually chime into threads and "defend" the President. There is a difference.

Secondly, despite the fact that I don't agree with NCLB, his stance on things like steel tariffs, and his refusal to actually veto a piece of legislation... I still think he's the best option available. I don't see a reason or a need to bash the guy that I think can do the best job.

Thirdly, a reasonable guarantee of safety isn't a guarantee of safety and you know it. If you're serious about going... I'd suggest running for president. Who knows, I might find you more palatable than the nine other declared candidates.

First, so what? What does that have to do with you not ever ripping into Bush for something you don't like? A democrat does something you don't like, and it's open season. Bush? You hold your tongue.

Secondly, see first.

Thirdly, you can not guarentee safety anywhere. By your definition, every single thing he does is courageous because no one could ever guarentee his safety.

[ISiddiqui]

Personally I applaud the move. It was a good idea. Bush took a decent sized risk and chose to eat Thanksgiving dinner with troops in Baghdad rather than his own family. That, and he got to speak with some members of the governing council. All in all, not bad, Mr. President, not bad at all.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by ISiddiqui
All in all, not bad, Mr. President, not bad at all.

Whoa. If ISiddiqui utters those words about any Republican, especially Bush, you know he must have done something right.

[ISiddiqui]

Hmmm... I may have misrepesented myself on these forums .

I am a registered Republican, you realize? I also was President of the Rutgers College Republicans for 2 years.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by ISiddiqui
Hmmm... I may have misrepesented myself on these forums .

I am a registered Republican, you realize? I also was President of the Rutgers College Republicans for 2 years.

You......have............GOT...............to................be................kidding...............me.

[Dutch]

I was very moved by this gesture a few years ago...I wonder if those who are bashing Bush now also bashed Clinton? I honestly doubt it.

1999: President Bill Clinton addressed Kosovar refugees and NATO military personnel in Macedonia, two weeks after end of NATO airstrikes to drive Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic out of Kosovo. Five months later he addressed Albanians and shared a Thanksgiving dinner with U.S. troops in Kosovo.

[ISiddiqui]

You......have............GOT...............to................be................kidding...............me.

If I was, that club didn't have a President for 2 years or a VP for another one of those years .

Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by ISiddiqui
Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else?

Must be. In my mind, you were a little to the left of Easy Mac.

[sabotai]

Dutch, I doubt it too, and I honestly doubt most of those who are praising Bush over this praised Clinton as highly when he did it.

Just more political bullshit from both sides...

[portnoise]

Originally posted by Maple Leafs
Of course it was motivated by recent events in Iraq. You can't disregard it on that basis. If they didn't react to those events, they'd be accused of being non-responsive, of ignoring what was going on.

So does it distract us from a bad situation, or does it offer some sort of evidence that maybe the situation wasn't as bad as we've been lead to believe? Obviously, we won't know the real answer any time soon.

I don't get it, ML... how this can offer evidence that things in Iraq are better than we think? Nothing's changed...soldiers still die daily...there's still no plan to get them out of there. Bush's response is to feed them turkey? Not much of a response. He benefits a lot more from this than they do.