A funny thing happened in college soccer last night

heybrad · 12-07-2003, 10:20 AM

Last night #8 seeded Indiana defeated top seeded and defending National Champion UCLA in college soccer. UCLA is now out of the National Championship picture. This shows what a farce the playoff system is. UCLA was the number 1 team in the nation coming into this game. One loss this late in the season should not eliminate them from playing in the title game. I think they still should still advance to the Final Four due to their #1 ranking throughout the season and because I know they are a better team.

oykib · 12-07-2003, 10:24 AM

From the title of the thread, I thought that you were going to say,

"... someone not related to a participant payed attention to a game."

oykib · 12-07-2003, 10:25 AM

The_herd · 12-07-2003, 10:26 AM

I think this is the wrong crowd.

Shouldn't it be in the Hattrick forum instead?

heybrad · 12-07-2003, 10:27 AM

I figured one of two things would happen...

Either nobody would get my point or nobody would get past the college soccer title.

Samdari · 12-07-2003, 10:33 AM

And it looks like both so far brad

The_herd · 12-07-2003, 10:36 AM

Point was taken, should I add a smiley to my post?

Glengoyne · 12-07-2003, 11:03 AM

Other than the topic of soccer and your incorrect opinion, this is a good thread.

What this shows, is that the ratings system is all wrong. The playoff format helped get it right. When an 8 seed beats a 1 seed. The one seed clearly isn't championship material.

Airhog · 12-07-2003, 11:22 AM

Yeah, but UCLA lost a game that mattered....

heybrad · 12-07-2003, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Glengoyne
Other than the topic of soccer and your incorrect opinion, this is a good thread.

What this shows, is that the ratings system is all wrong. The playoff format helped get it right. When an 8 seed beats a 1 seed. The one seed clearly isn't championship material.

Either you're joking or you've completely missed the boat.

Pumpy Tudors · 12-07-2003, 12:46 PM

Hey, Brad.

Both sides of the obvious argument can take this result and twist it to support their ideas. So, based on that fact, I'll say that I agree wholeheartedly.

heybrad · 12-07-2003, 12:51 PM

That was what I was getting at.

kcchief19 · 12-07-2003, 01:11 PM

So it comes back to the original question -- which is better, having humans and computers decide who the national champion is or give everybody a shot decided it on the field.

The NCAA basketball tournament works pretty darn well, and I never hear anybody saying that Kansas should get to play in the title game after they choke on the road to the Final Four.

sterlingice · 12-07-2003, 01:24 PM

Is this men's or women's soccer? If it's men's, wow. I didn't know there were any men's soccer teams left in the country- they all got axed for Title IX.

SI

QuikSand · 12-07-2003, 01:42 PM

Certainly can use that factoid to support almost any point of view.

What if UCLA was 25-0 all season long, and Indiana just sneaked into the tourney with a record like 19-6.

As we know, things can happen from game to game - and here, the presumably inferior team (as demonstrated over the course of the entire season) managed to win.

Since it's a Tournament (capitalized to show the immediate reverence that we seem to award to such things), the regaulr season doesn't matter. All those games UCLA won don't matter -- they should have just mailed in the regular season, and cruised to a #5 seed or so, because that's all they needed to get into the tournament -- and as we know, anything that happens before a tournament means nothing. Nothing.

Hooray. Let's hope that Indiana wins two more games, and they can finish at 22-6 and be #1, whils UCLA and other teams who proved to be better over the long haul get left out in the cold.

Pumpy Tudors · 12-07-2003, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kcchief19
The NCAA basketball tournament works pretty darn well, and I never hear anybody saying that Kansas should get to play in the title game after they choke on the road to the Final Four.

Think back to Villanova's championship back in the 1980's. Everyone said that they played the perfect game against Georgetown (which they did), but it was very clear that Villanova wasn't the best team in the country that season. They weren't even close. The played a couple of very good games and one perfect game, but the best team didn't win the championship that year. They simply had the best six-game stretch.

Personally, I really don't give a damn what system Division I-A uses for its championship, but a playoff will not necessarily produce the "best" national champion.

sooner333 · 12-07-2003, 02:04 PM

There is a huge difference, Oklahoma lost in the regular season, UCLA lost in a playoff. College soccer obviously has a system where the top 8 or whatever teams can be considered the best team at the end of the season based on the results of a Tournament. College football has a system which rewards the whole season and takes the best two teams on the basis of the whole season (thousands of games, not 65)

I think the reference that "the regular season is a playoff" is kind of wrong, because one loss doesn't necessarily knock you out. But, every game matters is important. If OU doesn't dominate those teams the way they do early on, then the loss hurts a lot more.

Ben E Lou · 12-07-2003, 02:07 PM

Quote:

A funny thing happened in college soccer last night

OK Alex. Now I'll take "Thread Titles In Which You Can Get Away With Saying Anything 'Cause You KNOW SkyDog Isn't Reading" for $800, please.

OldGiants · 12-07-2003, 02:32 PM

Yet another excellent example of an over-rated West Coast team not living up to the hype and getting creamed (Yes, 2-0 is getting creamed in soccer) as soon as they come up against a decent team from east of the Mississippi.

That's why playoffs are needed--to weed out the crap from the Pac10.

Airhog · 12-07-2003, 02:35 PM

OMG, Skydog looking at a post that has soccer in the title. Whats next, will he get a hattrick squad

Drake · 12-07-2003, 08:05 PM

Brad,

Indiana is a perennial NCAA soccer power, and coach Jerry Yeagley is retiring at the end of the season. I don't think UCLA losing to Indiana is as big an upset as it sounds. Indiana went into the tournament determined to send Yeagley out a winner (his 6th NCAA title, if I remember correctly). If anything, UCLA failed to recognize this and prepare accordingly. UCLA had a great season, but in crunch time, they failed to make the necessary adjustments to a hungry and talented team.

Not that I'm a homer or anything.

Indiana University, Class of 1998. Oh, and I work there, too. No homer here.

the_meanstrosity · 12-08-2003, 12:03 AM

If a #1 seed can't beat a #8 seed...then obviously they weren't worthy of a #1 seed. Indiana has been a very good program in recent years and as Drake said, it's not a big surprise to see them knock UCLA out.

I'm sorry, but I don't feel bad for anyone who loses the game on the field. If it were some computer system then sure. But the fact is, they got beat on the field. Clearly they weren't the top team in the land.

Glengoyne · 12-08-2003, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by heybrad
Either you're joking or you've completely missed the boat.

Nope I didn't miss anything. UCLA and Indiana won the regionals they were invited to, at least I think that is how the soccer post season goes. Then the NCAA seeded the surviving 8 teams, and the eight seed, the weakest seed beat the supposedly best remaining team. Done deal. In order to be a champion you have to beat the other teams in the final 8. If you can't beat those teams, you don't deserve to be champion.

ISiddiqui · 12-08-2003, 10:24 AM

People can't recognize sarcasm if it hit them over the head like a 50 lb weight

.

Radii · 12-08-2003, 10:27 AM

I was hoping this thread would be about UNC Womens soccer.

Nyarlahotep · 12-08-2003, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ISiddiqui
People can't recognize sarcasm if it hit them over the head like a 50 lb weight .

I can't recognize anything since I got hit in the head with a 50 lb weight.

Drake · 12-08-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ISiddiqui
People can't recognize sarcasm if it hit them over the head like a 50 lb weight .

Yikes. I completely missed the smiley at the end of Brad's post. You'd think I'd know his sarcasm better given our association in the FOBL.

I was just confused trying to figure out why Brad would be a UCLA fan in the first place.

heybrad · 12-08-2003, 01:22 PM

You were given a free pass because of your last name.

FishFan · 12-08-2003, 05:52 PM

I know what this thread is getting at, but if you relate this to the NCAA basketball tourney, then it is equivalent to a #2 seed knocking off a #1 seed. The Hoosiers are ranked 8th in the country in soccer, not an #8 seed that you think of in the basketball tournament. The soccer tournament does not have four #1 seeds, four #2 seeds, and so on.

And to think Indiana's top two players left the team to play for their countries national teams overseas a couple of weeks ago...

Glengoyne · 12-08-2003, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ISiddiqui
People can't recognize sarcasm if it hit them over the head like a 50 lb weight .

He should have used the bigger cheesey Big Grin Smiley, like you. I saw he was from CA, and assumed that he was a front running UCLA fan.

Drake · 12-08-2003, 08:14 PM

Fish:

You are such a homer.

Brad:

Grandma and Grandpa want to know if you're coming home for Christmas.

dawgfan · 12-08-2003, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kcchief19
So it comes back to the original question -- which is better, having humans and computers decide who the national champion is or give everybody a shot decided it on the field.

The NCAA basketball tournament works pretty darn well, and I never hear anybody saying that Kansas should get to play in the title game after they choke on the road to the Final Four.

The NCAA basketball tournament works pretty well in that it's very exciting and produces a lot of cash. What it does NOT do, not even close, is accurately determine the best college basketball team in the country that season.

I have no problem with the NCAA basketball tourney staying as it is, as it has a long history behind it and it generates a tremendous amount of excitement for the sport.

I just don't think it's a great way to determine the 'best' team though, something that has always been the intention in college football.

12-07-2003, 10:26 AM	#4
The_herd College Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fort Lackland, Texas (San Antonio)	I think this is the wrong crowd. Shouldn't it be in the Hattrick forum instead? __________________ Oakland Raiders: HFL's 1970 AC West Champs

12-07-2003, 10:33 AM	#6
Samdari Roster Filler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cicero	And it looks like both so far brad __________________ http://www.nateandellie.net Now featuring twice the babies for the same low price!

12-07-2003, 10:36 AM	#7
The_herd College Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fort Lackland, Texas (San Antonio)	Point was taken, should I add a smiley to my post? __________________ Oakland Raiders: HFL's 1970 AC West Champs

12-07-2003, 11:22 AM	#9
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	Yeah, but UCLA lost a game that mattered.... __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

12-07-2003, 12:46 PM	#11
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	Hey, Brad. Both sides of the obvious argument can take this result and twist it to support their ideas. So, based on that fact, I'll say that I agree wholeheartedly. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

12-07-2003, 10:24 AM	#2
oykib College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	From the title of the thread, I thought that you were going to say, "... someone not related to a participant payed attention to a game."

12-07-2003, 10:25 AM	#3
oykib College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000

12-07-2003, 10:27 AM	#5
heybrad Norm!!! Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Manassas, VA	I figured one of two things would happen... Either nobody would get my point or nobody would get past the college soccer title.

12-07-2003, 11:03 AM	#8
Glengoyne Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fresno, CA	Other than the topic of soccer and your incorrect opinion, this is a good thread. What this shows, is that the ratings system is all wrong. The playoff format helped get it right. When an 8 seed beats a 1 seed. The one seed clearly isn't championship material.

12-07-2003, 12:51 PM	#12
heybrad Norm!!! Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Manassas, VA	That was what I was getting at.

12-07-2003, 01:11 PM	#13
kcchief19 Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO	So it comes back to the original question -- which is better, having humans and computers decide who the national champion is or give everybody a shot decided it on the field. The NCAA basketball tournament works pretty darn well, and I never hear anybody saying that Kansas should get to play in the title game after they choke on the road to the Final Four.

12-07-2003, 01:24 PM	#14
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Is this men's or women's soccer? If it's men's, wow. I didn't know there were any men's soccer teams left in the country- they all got axed for Title IX. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

12-07-2003, 01:42 PM	#15
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	Certainly can use that factoid to support almost any point of view. What if UCLA was 25-0 all season long, and Indiana just sneaked into the tourney with a record like 19-6. As we know, things can happen from game to game - and here, the presumably inferior team (as demonstrated over the course of the entire season) managed to win. Since it's a Tournament (capitalized to show the immediate reverence that we seem to award to such things), the regaulr season doesn't matter. All those games UCLA won don't matter -- they should have just mailed in the regular season, and cruised to a #5 seed or so, because that's all they needed to get into the tournament -- and as we know, anything that happens before a tournament means nothing. Nothing. Hooray. Let's hope that Indiana wins two more games, and they can finish at 22-6 and be #1, whils UCLA and other teams who proved to be better over the long haul get left out in the cold.

12-07-2003, 02:04 PM	#17
sooner333 College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Norman, OK	There is a huge difference, Oklahoma lost in the regular season, UCLA lost in a playoff. College soccer obviously has a system where the top 8 or whatever teams can be considered the best team at the end of the season based on the results of a Tournament. College football has a system which rewards the whole season and takes the best two teams on the basis of the whole season (thousands of games, not 65) I think the reference that "the regular season is a playoff" is kind of wrong, because one loss doesn't necessarily knock you out. But, every game matters is important. If OU doesn't dominate those teams the way they do early on, then the loss hurts a lot more.

12-07-2003, 02:32 PM	#19
OldGiants College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Location, Location, Location	Yet another excellent example of an over-rated West Coast team not living up to the hype and getting creamed (Yes, 2-0 is getting creamed in soccer) as soon as they come up against a decent team from east of the Mississippi. That's why playoffs are needed--to weed out the crap from the Pac10. __________________ "The case of Great Britain is the most astonishing in this matter of inequality of rights in world soccer championships. The way they explained it to me as a child, God is one but He's three: Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I could never understand it. And I still don't understand why Great Britain is one but she's four....while [others] continue to be no more than one despite the diverse nationalities that make them up." Eduardo Galeano, SOCCER IN SUN AND SHADOW

12-07-2003, 02:35 PM	#20
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	OMG, Skydog looking at a post that has soccer in the title. Whats next, will he get a hattrick squad __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

12-07-2003, 08:05 PM	#21
Drake assmaster Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bloomington, IN	Brad, Indiana is a perennial NCAA soccer power, and coach Jerry Yeagley is retiring at the end of the season. I don't think UCLA losing to Indiana is as big an upset as it sounds. Indiana went into the tournament determined to send Yeagley out a winner (his 6th NCAA title, if I remember correctly). If anything, UCLA failed to recognize this and prepare accordingly. UCLA had a great season, but in crunch time, they failed to make the necessary adjustments to a hungry and talented team. Not that I'm a homer or anything. Indiana University, Class of 1998. Oh, and I work there, too. No homer here.

12-08-2003, 12:03 AM	#22
the_meanstrosity College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2002	If a #1 seed can't beat a #8 seed...then obviously they weren't worthy of a #1 seed. Indiana has been a very good program in recent years and as Drake said, it's not a big surprise to see them knock UCLA out. I'm sorry, but I don't feel bad for anyone who loses the game on the field. If it were some computer system then sure. But the fact is, they got beat on the field. Clearly they weren't the top team in the land.

12-08-2003, 10:24 AM	#24
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	People can't recognize sarcasm if it hit them over the head like a 50 lb weight . __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

12-08-2003, 10:27 AM	#25
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	I was hoping this thread would be about UNC Womens soccer.

12-08-2003, 01:22 PM	#28
heybrad Norm!!! Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Manassas, VA	You were given a free pass because of your last name.

12-08-2003, 05:52 PM	#29
FishFan College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA	I know what this thread is getting at, but if you relate this to the NCAA basketball tourney, then it is equivalent to a #2 seed knocking off a #1 seed. The Hoosiers are ranked 8th in the country in soccer, not an #8 seed that you think of in the basketball tournament. The soccer tournament does not have four #1 seeds, four #2 seeds, and so on. And to think Indiana's top two players left the team to play for their countries national teams overseas a couple of weeks ago...

12-08-2003, 08:14 PM	#31
Drake assmaster Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bloomington, IN	Fish: You are such a homer. Brad: Grandma and Grandpa want to know if you're coming home for Christmas.

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