Roll Call/Discussion: City Affiliations

[cuervo72]

I think one thing we can go about doing is determining which cities are going to be affiliated with which franchises from a game point of view. I will list the teams and locations, and to start will identify which of these cities are already in the city file (along with Pop, for the heck of it).

We can discuss this, but with the city editor I believe we should be able to edit some of the cities in the file that aren't going to be used (well, to get the names right in the game we will HAVE to). The question is to what extent we edit them. I'm all for changing weather, lat/long etc. I'd also support having a population floor established, to help make things a little more even financially (doesn't need to be a huge number, Green Bay for instance is around 200k).

What to do with the Virginia/Atlanta teams is an issue that will need to be discussed. Here are the teams as they've been identified:

AFC

Northeast (north)
-----------------
Buccaneer	Syracuse, NY		Syracuse, NY (741,000)	
cthomer5000	North Plainfield, NJ
Kodos		Rochester, NY		Rochester, NY (1,086,000)
primelord	Boston, MA		New England (4,487,000) -> Boston 			


Georgia (east)
--------------
Celeval		Georgia			Atlanta, GA (3,627,000)
GrantDawg	Covington, GA	Jacksonville, FL (1,035,000) -> Covington, GA
KWhit		Conyers, GA		Augusta, GA (457,000) -> Conyers, GA
SkyDog		Tucker, GA


Deep South (south)
------------------
Buzzbee		Vicksburg, Miss
HornedFrogPurpleFort Worth, TX
Senator		San Antonio, TX		San Antonio, TX (1,511,000)
TroyF		Stillwater, OK


Frequent Flyers (west)
----------------------
albionmoonlight Fairbanks, AK
Darkiller	Paris, France
MIJB#19		Maassluis, Netherlands
Alf		Bordeaux, France	SF (1,655,000) -> Bordeaux, CA :)



NFC

Midwest (north)
---------------
FBPro		RayCo			Tennesee (1,135,000) -> RayCo, TN
Daimyo		Columbus, IN		Indianapolis (1,503,000) -> Columbus, IN
mckerney	Minnesota		Minnesota (2,792,000)
Solecismic	Ann Arbor, MI		Ann Arbor, MI (530,000)


Mid-Atlantic (east)
-------------------
cuervo72	Frederick, MD
Hell Atlantic	Astoria, NY
QuikSand	Cheasapeake, MD
SackAttack	Brooklyn, NY


Virginia (south)
----------------
Bee		Fairfax, VA	
Fritz		Hampton Roads, VA
Samdari		Springfield, VA
Subby		Leesburg, VA


West (west)
-----------
Blackadar	Boulder, CO
Chief Rum	Anaheim, CA		Anaheim, CA (2,637,000)
JasonTobiasIV	San Jose, CA		San Jose, CA (1,838,000)
Vince		San Luis Obispo, CA	

[cthomer5000]

I think for situations where the teams would be grouped incredibly close together (georgia) they should just select some unused cities that are reasonable to use. Georgia might as well raid the Florida cities for instance, since none of them are being used.

Being that there are basically already two NYC teams (astoria, brooklyn), I guess I'd like Newark, NJ or Philly, PA to be the base for my team.

[cthomer5000]

some suggestions:

• Astoria and Brooklyn take over the existing Giants/Jets cities.
• Boston takes over "New England"
• Cheasapeake and Frederick take over Baltimore/D.C
• The other Virginia teams take cities in that state and/or the Carolinas
• Columbus use Indianapolis

Does the city editor allow us to edit geographical location? If so, we can edit the weather for any city to be accurate to that real world spot, yet stick the city (as far as the game is concerned) somewhere completely different.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by cthomer5000
some suggestions:

• Astoria and Brooklyn take over the existing Giants/Jets cities.
• Boston takes over "New England"
• Cheasapeake and Frederick take over Baltimore/D.C
• The other Virginia teams take cities in that state and/or the Carolinas
• Columbus use Indianapolis

Does the city editor allow us to edit geographical location? If so, we can edit the weather for any city to be accurate to that real world spot, yet stick the city (as far as the game is concerned) somewhere completely different.

There are 4 cities in Virginia, so those teams could take those. Lats/Lons can be edited in the city editor, so teams can be relocated a bit physically.

The biggest problem as far as cities is the international teams. If we give them their real lats/lons, how will that affect the simulation?

[albionmoonlight]

The weather in Fairbanks is unrealistic (weeks where it does not get above 20 below. The winter that I was there, it got down to 60 below).

I would just as soon make Fairbanks a city with weather like Green Bay and a reasonable population (~1,000,000).

[Alf]

Alf Trickers : Bordeaux is a 500K people area (city + suburbs). Weather is approx like San Francisco. Any city on the West Coast between SF & LA would work.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
The weather in Fairbanks is unrealistic (weeks where it does not get above 20 below. The winter that I was there, it got down to 60 below).

I would just as soon make Fairbanks a city with weather like Green Bay and a reasonable population (~1,000,000).

It would be pretty damn interesting if it was a guaranteed snow game every time.. those girly offenses would be afriad to step foot into the place.

still, it might be better to make it a tad more sensible.

Is Anchorage in the game? I believe it was in FOF2001....

[cuervo72]

Anchorage is indeed in the game. I would say we could take Anchorage's weather, and change the name, lat, long. Population for Anchorage is 251k. 1M might be in the ballpark for a population floor. Can be up for discussion.

Alf - I think San Fran works fine (it is wine country too), we can take SF and edit the name. I don't think the lat/long would work for overseas, bc I believe the map files would be messed up (no map in there for France ). But San Fran can work.

I figured Indianapolis for Colombus, but didn't want to presume. I also figured New England would become Boston, but the name wasn't exact so I didn't list it.

cthomer, I think you'd be fine with Newark, actually, and Astoria/Brooklyn could be NJ/NY (or flipped). Or really just both NY if it will allow it. It does have a pop of over 11M.

I had been thinking of putting Frederick in its correct location, replacing some other smaller city, to leave DC for another team. Yes , they are close, so maybe that wouldn't work, I don't know.

[Subby]

We'll take DC or Alexandria, VA...we will switch our name to Alexandria in all probablility since it is so girly and pretty.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by Subby
We'll take DC or Alexandria, VA...we will switch our name to Alexandria in all probablility since it is so girly and pretty.

The Alexandria Generals? That would be a decidedly different historical perspective...


edit: BTW, the VA cities that come with the game are Richmond, Roanoke, Charlottesville and Norfolk. And I'd have assumed Fritz would be Norfolk.

[GrantDawg]

I'll take Jascksonville.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by GrantDawg
I'll take Jascksonville.

I've been wondering about the Georgia ones...I didn't know if it would be a big deal to have the game list this as "Covington, FL", or if I could change the state, but keep the same coordinates. I'm thinking that this will pop up GA when you go to look up the team, but will not show you a locator helmet, because the coordinates fall outside of that state. Other than that, I'd see nothing else bad that would happen.

[KWhit]

I'll take Augusta GA.



How will population size and geographic location effect us? I don't have a really good sense of this yet.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by KWhit
I'll take Augusta GA.



How will population size and geographic location effect us? I don't have a really good sense of this yet.

Not exactly sure. I'd guess it might influence entertainment competition within a certain radius. But given large enough populations, I wouldn't think that would matter unless it was to an extreme. Baltimore/Wash and NY/NJ are pretty darned close for instance.

[cuervo72]

Hmm, maybe my above assertion is incorrect.

City Information Screen

Use the City Information Screen to view information about a city.

This screen is useful for determining an appropriate location for a new team. Use the selection box at the top of the screen to select a city.

The fields in the middle of the screen show the number of teams within a certain radius of the city. Having closer competition can affect a city's willingness to host a new team - especially a small city.

Information about the city includes:

The population of the city and its surrounding area.

The average family income in the city.
The rate of growth for services and population within the city.
The percentage of the city's population living below the poverty level.
The competition level between forms of entertainment in the city. More competition means football might have a tougher time drawing fans.
How "hot" an area is right now. A trend-setting city has an increasing rate of growth.
Overall, how interested is the city in hosting a new team.
A description of weather in the city. The weather affects game play, and it can affect attendance under certain extremes.

Ok, so it affects the ability of a team to draw a new team. Says nothing about what proximity does for teams that are already placed...

[SackAttack]

I'll be damned before I'll recognize New Jersey. Gimme New York, please.

[Vince]

Not sure what I want for my city...SLO has more rain and 'extreme' (a VERY relative term) weather conditions than San Diego or Los Angeles. I'd be ok with taking either of them though, because the difference isn't very large.

[MIJB#19]

Concidering Maassluis, I'll try to dig up the correct numbers for all the used info in-game.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by MIJB#19
Concidering Maassluis, I'll try to dig up the correct numbers for all the used info in-game.

That's the spirit! We'll just need to be sure to give coordinates within the US.

Vince - feel free to adjust the weather for whatever city you choose. You could even take Bakersfield and slide it west some.

SackAttack - Either way, it won't read "New Jersey". And there actually is quite a difference in population between New York and New Jersey in the game - about 10M. Still not sure exactly how we are going to handle population, but that might be something to consider. But you're on the record as having first dibs on NY proper.

[MIJB#19]

Originally posted by cuervo72
That's the spirit! We'll just need to be sure to give coordinates within the US.

That can be a real problem.
You know, Bordeaux fits in the NW part of the globe, lie the US, but Maassluis is located East of London...
That's why I would concider moving the team to oversees colony (ahem, I mean part of the Dutch Kingdom): The Netherlands Antilles.

EDIT: Or does FOF also work with a negative value of -10 for WL?
END EDIT

Besides that, I'm strarting to question my availability to play along, my lack of having FOF4 will be there for at least 3 more weeks.

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
The weather in Fairbanks is unrealistic (weeks where it does not get above 20 below. The winter that I was there, it got down to 60 below).

I would just as soon make Fairbanks a city with weather like Green Bay and a reasonable population (~1,000,000).

We could also associate your team with St. Louis's ID and give you a dome

[MIJB#19]

Originally posted by cuervo72
SackAttack - Either way, it won't read "New Jersey". And there actually is quite a difference in population between New York and New Jersey in the game - about 10M. Still not sure exactly how we are going to handle population, but that might be something to consider. But you're on the record as having first dibs on NY proper.

FWIW, in FOF2, New Jersey was actually Paterson, like New England was Boston, Tennessee was Nashville, Carolina was Charlotte and Arizona was Phoenix.

[cuervo72]

Good point, MIJB.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by cuervo72
We could also associate your team with St. Louis's ID and give you a dome

Actually, you just brought up an issue I had completely overlooked. We're going to forced to stick with the domes the game currently has in place. So we'll need some people from those divisions to suck it up an play indoors like pansies. Maybe they can draw straws or something.

• Real life domes
• Indy
• Minnesota
• St. Louis
• Houston - what does 2004 consider this stadium?
• Detroit
• Minnesota
• Atlanta
• New Orleans

That gives me a good idea for a league rule to be placed in the constitution:

No new dome stadiums! Teams can either renovate existing domes, or build new open-air stadiums. But under no circumstances will we build new domes.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by MIJB#19
FWIW, in FOF2, New Jersey was actually Paterson, like New England was Boston, Tennessee was Nashville, Carolina was Charlotte and Arizona was Phoenix.

the population should definitely be bumped way up though. The Jets and Giants both have waiting lists for season tickets that are 10+ years long.

I've been on the Jets waiting list for 7 years... and now I'm finally getting within sniffing range (I'm around #2000 on the waitlist...)

[SackAttack]

Originally posted by cuervo72
SackAttack - Either way, it won't read "New Jersey". And there actually is quite a difference in population between New York and New Jersey in the game - about 10M. Still not sure exactly how we are going to handle population, but that might be something to consider.

I'm okay with that. Population didn't even enter my thought process. It'll just be a cold day in hell before I recognize New Jersey, that's all.

[MIJB#19]

since we're discussing stadium info as well here now, should we all design a new stadium that fits the city profiles?
(this obviously goes hand in hand with wheter we'll have cities varying on population, as questioned in the "Population" thread)

[cuervo72]

Originally posted by MIJB#19
since we're discussing stadium info as well here now, should we all design a new stadium that fits the city profiles?
(this obviously goes hand in hand with wheter we'll have cities varying on population, as questioned in the "Population" thread)

MIJB, to the best of my knowledge we cannot change stadium information (yet), so we are stuck with what is in the game unless someone creates a utility for it. The most we can do is assign teams to certain team ID's to stadium match.

[Anthony]

being that i'm actually born and bread from NYC, and SA is a product of Caleefornee-a (if i'm not mistaken), i will be taking NY proper. if the league has to have two teams in the same city, well, MLB has it with the Mets/Yankees.

there is no New Jersey. just a whole lot of swamp land in between NYC and the rest of the country.

i'm already pissed as it is at not having actual NFL teams, dont make me have to get difficult.

[Fritz]

Hampton Roads is the regional name for the Norfolk area.

[FBPro]

If you want to go with "larger cities", Chattanooga is closest, Nashville is about 3 hours away but will work also.

[cthomer5000]

Originally posted by Hell Atlantic
there is no New Jersey. just a whole lot of swamp land in between NYC and the rest of the country.

This may be the worst exaggeration of any kind I've ever seen.


Please put me on your waiting list for arch rivals.

[Buccaneer]

That statement should have been modified as thus

there is no Northern New Jersey. just a whole lot of stinking, putrid swamp land in between NYC and the rest of the country.