Front Office Football Central  

Go Back   Front Office Football Central > Archives > FOFC Archive
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read Statistics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-19-2004, 03:53 PM   #1
lcjjdnh
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NJ
Movies better than the book

All this talk about movies prompted me to think about this question as someone said they made the mistake of reading Seabiscuit before watching the movie. There are plenty of movies that are much worse than the books they are based on but what movies are actually better than the books they are based on?

I can only think of select few that are even equal to the book. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest is both a great book and movie but they are really radically different because Chief narrates the book. To Kill a Mockingbird the movie is almost as good as the book but I don't think it tops it in anyway.

Are there any other movies to add to this list?

lcjjdnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 03:56 PM   #2
Aylmar
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Los Angeles
The Rings trilogy. Great movies (as a whole), but awesome books.
__________________
"At its best, football is still football, an amalgam of thought and violence, chess with broken bones and shredded ligaments." -- Dave Kindred
Aylmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 03:56 PM   #3
HornedFrog Purple
Hattrick Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Fort Worthless, Tx
I can think of three off-hand that at least enhanced the book or novella they came from:

The Green Mile
The Shawshank Redemption
Band of Brothers (ok a mini-series)
__________________
King of All FOFC Media!!!
IHOF: Fort Worthless Fury- 2004 AOC Deep South Champions (not acknowledged via conspiracy)
HornedFrog Purple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 04:00 PM   #4
Huckleberry
College Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
The problem, in my opinion, has a lot to do with time and attention span. People are not going to sit there through a 6-hour movie. But good books require that long to be turned into an equal movie. Despite the fact that a movie can set the visual scene instantaneously, character development still takes just as long in a movie as in a book. In some cases it may even take longer, depending, of course, on your reading speed.

Think about lots of the great movies. They were simply long, good movies. They took the time to develop the characters and story and did those things well. That's why big budget films are a risk. If it's a long movie that is well-done, it's going to be great. If it's a long movie that isn't well-done, it's going to be a tremendous bore that goes down in history as one of the greatest flops of all time.
__________________
The one thing all your failed relationships have in common is you.

The Barking Carnival (Longhorn-centered sports blog)
College Football Adjusted Stats and Ratings
Huckleberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 04:20 PM   #5
astralhaze
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
The Shining. Great book, but the book wasn't directed by Stanley Kubrick.
__________________
I can understand Brutus at every meaning, but that parahraphy threw me for a loop.
astralhaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 04:25 PM   #6
Groundhog
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
I tried reading Lord of the Rings, but I just hated the style of writing. I got half way through the first book and had to put it down.

I haven't read it, but from what I understand Fight Club is a better movie than it is book.
__________________
Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
--Ambrose Bierce
Groundhog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 04:27 PM   #7
Huckleberry
College Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
The Shining is as close as it comes, in my opinion, but even that one falls short.

I guess I'll explain my Seabiscuit opinion seeing as how I'm the one that made the comment that prompted this thread. The biggest complaint, if I had to name one, I have about the movie is character development. As if you couldn't guess. And the problem was with one character in particular. A minor player in the story, I guess. Went by the name Seabiscuit.

I guess I expected the movie to focus on the humans. But to ignore the relationship between Pollard and 'Biscuit as well as between Smith and 'Biscuit was almost criminal to me. Those relationships were only alluded to offhand throughout the film, at least when compared to the book.
__________________
The one thing all your failed relationships have in common is you.

The Barking Carnival (Longhorn-centered sports blog)
College Football Adjusted Stats and Ratings
Huckleberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 04:29 PM   #8
pskov
Mascot
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
I just cannot understand how J.R.R. Tolkien didn't make himself fall asleep writing those books. The movies however are very good, though for me, RotK was a bit of a dissapointment (still good though).
pskov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 04:30 PM   #9
astralhaze
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundhog
I tried reading Lord of the Rings, but I just hated the style of writing. I got half way through the first book and had to put it down.

Ditto. From what I understand, it picks up the pace later, but there was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much extraneous writing in there. We don't need to hear about everything the characters do. I was halfway expecting to read "At that point, the party was forced to make a stop as Frodo felt the need to relieve his bowels."
__________________
I can understand Brutus at every meaning, but that parahraphy threw me for a loop.
astralhaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 04:32 PM   #10
BillyPilgrim
n00b
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
I think Minority Report the movie was better than the short story, and the movie version of A Clockwork Orange was almost as good as the book, but for the most part, movie versions rarely come close to being as good as the book. Fight Club included, IMO
BillyPilgrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 04:39 PM   #11
Raiders Army
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Black Hole
John Carpenter's Vampires was "loosely" based on Vampire$, a book by John Steakley. Both were pretty good IMHO, but the movie was better. On a side note, John Steakley's other book, Armor, has the same main characters in it as Vampire$, at least in name...sorta like the Stephen King/Richard Bachman books, The Regulators and [can't remember what the other one was called off the top of my head].
Raiders Army is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 05:03 PM   #12
TLK
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Allen Park, MI
High Fieldity is a better movie, but also a very good read.....
TLK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 05:11 PM   #13
Glengoyne
Grizzled Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fresno, CA
The Firm. This is one of those that splits people down the middle. The people I know that read the book first, like the movie ending better. The people I know that saw the movie first, liked the book better.

I read the book first, and although it was a page burner the end sputtered badly for me. When I saw the movie I loved the "twist".
Glengoyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 05:49 PM   #14
corbes
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
I could argue either side of Clockwork Orange.
corbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 05:51 PM   #15
astralhaze
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by corbes
I could argue either side of Clockwork Orange.

Likewise. Great book, equally great movie.
__________________
I can understand Brutus at every meaning, but that parahraphy threw me for a loop.
astralhaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 05:54 PM   #16
ahbrady
High School JV
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
I was the opposite of this on The Firm. I saw the movie first then read the book. I liked the book very well, but the ending of the movie was much better to me. I liked the ending of the book okay too, but I think it would have been a little boring to watch.
ahbrady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 05:56 PM   #17
mattwakeman
Mascot
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Cold, old England
Planet of the Apes, the book contains only the germ of the idea which the film then expands brilliantly. Point Blank is a terse kind of book and then becomes this amazing John Boorman film with Lee Marvin becoming simply terrifying.
__________________
Carpe Diem
mattwakeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 06:03 PM   #18
Draft Dodger
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
I thought the movie version of The Firm SUCKED, so there!

Besides LOTR, off the top of my head Silence of the Lambs may be as good as I can come up with. It wasn't better than the book but it was almost as good (and also very faithful). Most movie versions of books fall far, far shorter than that.

What about The Godfather - I've never read that book; is it as good as the movie?
__________________
Mile High Hockey
Draft Dodger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 06:04 PM   #19
Greyroofoo
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alabama
M*A*S*H
Greyroofoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 06:12 PM   #20
Qwikshot
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: ...down the gravity well
Stunned that no one, no one said Jaws yet...Benchley is not a good writer...but the movie was awesome.
Qwikshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 06:19 PM   #21
Bad-example
College Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: san jose CA
Hunt for Red October
__________________
Karaoke Katie drove the crowd wild
Every time she'd sing they'd come in for miles
Curtain came up, Katie came on
Drinking like a lumberjack and singing Delta Dawn
Bad-example is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 06:23 PM   #22
sabotai
General Manager
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Satellite of Love
I didn't know Jaws was a book before it was a movie...
sabotai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 06:41 PM   #23
Fonzie
Pro Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Illinois
I'll suggest Contact. Carl Sagan had some great ideas, but as a novelist he was a bit stilted.
Fonzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 06:48 PM   #24
Leonidas
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: East Anglia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draft Dodger
What about The Godfather - I've never read that book; is it as good as the movie?

The Godfather is the best example of a movie being better than the book. Puzo was really just a pop writer who liked to write mob books. Godfather really wasn't even that popular of a book until the movie came out, then it was a huge bestseller. And the movie is far and away better than the book.
__________________
Molon labe
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 07:39 PM   #25
SegRat
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Oshkosh, WI
First Blood, the movie was by far better than the book.
__________________
USFL: Charlotte Fightn' Squirrels
SegRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 08:04 PM   #26
gstelmack
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cary, NC
I thought the Jurassic Park movie complemented the book very nicely. It focused on the bits a movie could do well while maintaining the same theme. Reading the book doesn't ruin the movie, and watching the movie doesn't ruin the book.

Congo, on the other hand...
__________________
-- Greg
-- Author of various FOF utilities
gstelmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 08:08 PM   #27
SackAttack
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Green Bay, WI
Quote:
Originally Posted by gstelmack
I thought the Jurassic Park movie complemented the book very nicely. It focused on the bits a movie could do well while maintaining the same theme. Reading the book doesn't ruin the movie, and watching the movie doesn't ruin the book.

Two words: Jeff. Goldblum.
SackAttack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 08:22 PM   #28
Bearcat729
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
I've only heard of one movie that was supposed to be better than the book, and that was The Princess Bride, but I've never read the book to say for sure.

The Godfather to me is what all adaptations are compared to. I think that Puzo was able to adapt his book perfectly for the screen, and make it into 2 of the best films ever made.
Bearcat729 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 08:27 PM   #29
Draft Dodger
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Keene, NH
Quote:
Originally Posted by gstelmack
Congo, on the other hand...

not to mention Sphere or Timeline.

Congo, Sphere and Timeline are probably my 3 favorite Crichton books. The movies, however...
__________________
Mile High Hockey
Draft Dodger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 09:05 PM   #30
tucker342
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Iowa City, IA
Very rarely are movies better than the books.

I thought the LOTR movies were incredible, but I still think the books were way better
tucker342 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 09:24 PM   #31
klayman
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Edmonton
Blade Runner, which was based off of Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. Of course, I was quite young when I read it, so maybe I should read it again to make sure.
klayman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 09:26 PM   #32
Barkeep49
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Not too far away
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearcat729
I've only heard of one movie that was supposed to be better than the book, and that was The Princess Bride, but I've never read the book to say for sure.

It pains me to hear that you said that. The book as a satire works so incredibly well. The introduction alone had me nearly in tears from laughing.

As for movies that were better than the books:
I think Nick Hornsby and Phillip Dick both are better on the screen then on the page (though some of Dick's work has been really bad).

I also was very unimpressed with Talented Mr. Ripley (which was merely an above average movie) when I read it.

Last edited by Barkeep49 : 01-19-2004 at 09:26 PM. Reason: Stupid formatting
Barkeep49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 10:04 PM   #33
LastWhiteSoxFanStanding
College Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Field of Dreams was better than Shoeless Joe by WP Kinsella even if they had Shoeless Joe batting right handed in the movie.
LastWhiteSoxFanStanding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 10:55 PM   #34
Buddy Grant
High School JV
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Hitchcocks The Birds was IMO better than the Du Maurier short story. I liked the From Hell movie a lot more than the comic, but then again I'm not a comic geek. I personally like most Bond films more than their Ian Flemming book counterparts, but many would probably disagree there.
Buddy Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 11:38 PM   #35
Godzilla Blitz
College Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
I can only think of a few.

A Midnight Clear
I thought the movie captured the fear, terror, and tragedy of war much better than the book did.

The World According to Garp
I think the book is better than the book, but for some reason I enjoyed the movie much more than I did the book.

The Lord of the Rings movies
I realize that the books are supposed to be classics, and I've tried three or four times to read the first one, but I'll be damned if I don't simply lose interest somewhere in that damn forest that they're going through forever. I don't think I've ever made it out of the thing. It's not like I actually "stop" reading the book; it's more like I just "forget" that I was reading it and start something else. Loved the movies though.

Last edited by Godzilla Blitz : 01-19-2004 at 11:38 PM.
Godzilla Blitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 11:53 PM   #36
Mr. Wednesday
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Bend, IN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-example
Hunt for Red October
I disagree, I didn't like how they changed the climax, particularly since I thought that part of the book was already exciting enough.


I don't think the LOTR movies are better than the books, even though they are admirable adaptations. There are some things that are conveyed wonderfully in prose that don't come across onscreen.


I'm afraid that there aren't any instances of adaptations where I've liked the movie better than the book or story, but there are a number of movies that I like that are adaptations where I've never read the original work.


I've read that Dick said of Blade Runner that they had made a PKD story, just not the one he sold them.
Mr. Wednesday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2004, 11:57 PM   #37
Tasan
College Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Houston, or there about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-example
Hunt for Red October


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHA

Thats funny. The movie is very loosly based on the book, and the only thing saving that movie was Connery, and even then its not one of his best roles.
__________________
2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty
Tasan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 12:21 AM   #38
Peregrine
Pro Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Cary, NC
Quote:
I guess I'll explain my Seabiscuit opinion seeing as how I'm the one that made the comment that prompted this thread. The biggest complaint, if I had to name one, I have about the movie is character development. As if you couldn't guess. And the problem was with one character in particular. A minor player in the story, I guess. Went by the name Seabiscuit.

I guess I expected the movie to focus on the humans. But to ignore the relationship between Pollard and 'Biscuit as well as between Smith and 'Biscuit was almost criminal to me. Those relationships were only alluded to offhand throughout the film, at least when compared to the book.

I just finished reading Seabiscuit, and was really wowed. I liked the movie, but the book was excellent, it just took the story to such new levels of depth.

Pretty sad to me that people think the LOTR movies are better than the books. Great movies, but those books are incredible, I read them yearly and see new things every time. Pretty much my "stuck on a desert island" books.

As good a movie as the Princess Bride is, I do think the book is better. It has a lot more detail that they didn't cover in the movie, and the satire is just much more pointed and hilarious. Both are very good though.
Peregrine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 01:35 AM   #39
BigJohn&TheLions
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York
Cujo.

As for the previous comment on "First Blood" The book far excedes the movie. It gets into Rambo's psyche, which is pretty fucked up. (It has been about 20 years since reading it though...)
BigJohn&TheLions is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 04:25 AM   #40
Groundhog
Coordinator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla Blitz
The Lord of the Rings movies
I realize that the books are supposed to be classics, and I've tried three or four times to read the first one, but I'll be damned if I don't simply lose interest somewhere in that damn forest that they're going through forever. I don't think I've ever made it out of the thing. It's not like I actually "stop" reading the book; it's more like I just "forget" that I was reading it and start something else. Loved the movies though.

You know, that's the EXACT spot I gave up in. It was beyond tedious up to that point.
__________________
Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
--Ambrose Bierce
Groundhog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 04:36 AM   #41
Bad-example
College Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: san jose CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasan
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHA

Thats funny. The movie is very loosly based on the book, and the only thing saving that movie was Connery, and even then its not one of his best roles.

Your opinion...wrong though it is...is duly noted
__________________
Karaoke Katie drove the crowd wild
Every time she'd sing they'd come in for miles
Curtain came up, Katie came on
Drinking like a lumberjack and singing Delta Dawn
Bad-example is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 07:15 AM   #42
corbes
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Throw out some names for consideration:

The English Patient
Remains of the Day
Howard's End

I don't think any of them are better than the book, but they're open to debate. Probably Remains of the Day comes closest...

Last edited by corbes : 01-20-2004 at 07:16 AM.
corbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 07:42 AM   #43
Honolulu_Blue
Hockey Boy
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine

Pretty sad to me that people think the LOTR movies are better than the books. Great movies, but those books are incredible, I read them yearly and see new things every time. Pretty much my "stuck on a desert island" books.


I don't know. I'm a life long geek and have been playing D&D since I was 6 years old. I love this stuff, but I still think the LOTR movies are superior to the books. By some margin. THe characters are more developed and cooler. The dialogue is better. There is action. All the lame parts of the books (i.e, Bombadill) were cut. The books are amazing for what they are: the foundation of "modern" fantasy. That can never be ignored or taken away from them. They are epic in scope, but the movies brought a level of granularity to the events and people that the books wholly lacked. Very few of the characters in the book are all that well fleshed out.
Honolulu_Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 08:34 AM   #44
cthomer5000
Strategy Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Carolina
Quote:
Originally Posted by corbes
I could argue either side of Clockwork Orange.

As one of my all time favorite books, I have to admit I pretty much detest the movie.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by albionmoonlight View Post
This is like watching a car wreck. But one where, every so often, someone walks over and punches the driver in the face as he struggles to free himself from the wreckage.
cthomer5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 08:36 AM   #45
Aylmar
High School Varsity
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue
Very few of the characters in the book are all that well fleshed out.

Are you sure you read the right books? Seriously, I can't believe you're saying this...but to each his own, I guess.
__________________
"At its best, football is still football, an amalgam of thought and violence, chess with broken bones and shredded ligaments." -- Dave Kindred
Aylmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 09:27 AM   #46
Honolulu Blue
Dynasty Boy
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Michigan
This is Honolulu Blue #2, and I'll chime in with a couple:

* "The Running Man" - I always enjoyed the movie for its cheesiness and campiness, and the book was neither. Not much of a Stephen King fan, I suppose.

* "Wall Street" - This was a quickie paperback that was based on the movie, so it may not count here. But I loved the movie and didn't love the book.
Honolulu Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 09:50 AM   #47
dolfin
High School JV
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Texas
I may be opening myself up to jabs, but...

Great Expectations The one with Gwyneth Paltrow and Ethan Hawke.

I know the book is a classic (and a good one a that), and this modernization is loosely based on the book, but I like the movie much more than the book. In fact, its one of my favorite movies. I guess the main reason for liking it more is that I can better relate to the modern day version. The movie just invokes such strong feelings that I didn't get when reading the book.

Last edited by dolfin : 01-20-2004 at 09:51 AM.
dolfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 10:41 AM   #48
Samdari
Roster Filler
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Cicero
[quote=Groundhog]I tried reading Lord of the Rings, but I just hated the style of writing. I got half way through the first book and had to put it down.[quote]

I did this twice before finishing the series. They are now my favorite books of all time. Try getting through the whole Fellowship, then see if you still hate them. If you do, there is no hope.
__________________
http://www.nateandellie.net Now featuring twice the babies for the same low price!
Samdari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 10:48 AM   #49
corbes
College Benchwarmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by cthomer5000
As one of my all time favorite books, I have to admit I pretty much detest the movie.

That's fair. Why?
corbes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 03:40 PM   #50
lcjjdnh
College Prospect
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: NJ
In response to the Clockword Orange issue, although I never saw the movie, I know that they left out the last chapter which Kubrick wrote, that was in the UK version of the book but not the U.S. version. I personally thought the last chapter was key to the book so by leaving it out the movie, they may have offended many people.

Also to add some more considerations. I have never read or seen Tom Wolfe's "the Right Stuff" but I'm pretty sure both are highly regarded. I know some people who really liked Simon Birch which is pretty much based on the first chapter of John Irving's "A Prayer for Owen Meany" with the rest of the book loosely tied in. Personally Owen Meany is probably one of my top 3 books if not my favorite all-time and the movie didn't really do justice if you ask me but I know some people liked the movie so I'll throw it out there.
lcjjdnh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:53 PM.



Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.