Not Till The Fat Lady Sings; huve and other thoughts

[Buccaneer]

My wife gave me an early V-day present and I got the glossy, table-top book Not Till The Fat Lady Sings. It presents, in words and photos, the top 50 "most dramatic sports finishes of all time". It also comes with a DVD that has the about 20 of them in actual recordings, commentaries and videos.

One of the top 50 is last year's OSU/UM "championsip" game in Tempe. I question whether this is top 50 material but it appears to be in there to sell the book (since it is recent). Proof is that it was this they chose to put on the cover/label of the DVD. Our old friend huve is mention a couple of times (each chapter is about 4 pages) with a large photo of the pass interference play. Hell of a way to be in the book.

This book also highlights one of my long-standing pet peeves. To me, a most dramatic/heroic/climactic/whatever finish has to occur in a do or die situation. Breaking a tie is not quite as dramatic as coming from behind to win in the last second/inning/etc. because if you fail, the team has not lost yet. Joe Carter's "winning" HR always bothered me because if he had not HR, there is still the next inning and if not, there is still game 7 (just like Jordan's shot, which was #3??????). While both shots had drama, it does not come close to being all that critical, imo. The same thing with game 7/inning 9 HR to break a tie game or a winning FG to break a tie game. - the consequence of failure is not as severe (compare to Flutie's hail mary or Thomson's HR).

[Chubby]

I would agree about the do or die thing. Tho I think Pearl Washington's 1/2 court buzzer beater to win should be on there too

[Chief Rum]

Any 2002 Angels moments in that one? I wouldn't be surprised if Spiezio's ten pitch foul off, three-run homerun extravaganza was in that one.

CR

[Chief Rum]

dola,

Although I guess that isn't really a finish (although it led to it).

CR

[tucker342]

I also agree about the do or die thingy

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Any 2002 Angels moments in that one? I wouldn't be surprised if Spiezio's ten pitch foul off, three-run homerun extravaganza was in that one.

CR

Forgive me, CR. But I hate you for that moment.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Joe Carter's "winning" HR always bothered me because if he had not HR, there is still the next inning and if not, there is still game 7

Actually, Carter's HR came with the Jays trailing in the bottom of the ninth. There was no next inning for Toronto.

There would have been a game seven though.

[cthomer5000]

I strongly agree about the "do-or-die" aspect making an ending truly epic. To me, this is why Super Bowl XXV (Giants-Bills) was the best ending (and I would argue best overall Super Bowl) ever. The Bills were going to win the game, but lost instead. Compare that to other recent tight Super Bowls and you had:

The Titans trying to tie the Rams, and getting stuck at the 1.
The Pats breaking a tie against the Rams
The Pats breaking a tie agains the Panthers.

On the huve topic:
If any of you have caught the NFL films feature "Hey Rookie: Welcome to the NFL," during one of the Anquan Boldin segments they show some FSU highlights. One highlight is Boldin and Sharpe absolutely going at each other until the play ends and the ref has to break them up. FWIW, Boldin never got more than 2 yards off the line of scrimmage. Must be nice to look back and know you were in man coverage against the NFL rookie of the year.

[albionmoonlight]

Which leads to the obvious question for Bucc and others:

What are your top 5-10 most dramatic sports finishes of all time?

I'd have to put N.C. State beating Phi Slamma Jamma right up there.

Flutie's Hail Mary.

Thomson's HR of Course.

Others . . . ?

[albionmoonlight]

dola--

As a UNC homer, I have to put Chris Webber's Time-Out up there. Being more objective, however, I think that moments are even more classic when someone achieves something to help their team win as opposed to failing to help the other team win. That's why I won't put Norwood's miss up there. I just can't view a missed FG as one of the best endings in sports. YMMV.

[albionmoonlight]

Double Dola--

It pains me to say it, but you also have to put Christian Laettner 's shot to beat Kentucky in '92 in the "greatest college basketball game ever played" up there, too.

[cthomer5000]

off the top of my head:

• Giants-Bill (Super Bowl XXV)
• The Laetner shot in the Kentucky-Duke tourney game
• The Matt Bahr field goal in the NFC title game (preceding Super Bowl XXV), the Giants beat the 49ers 15-14 (or maybe 15-13, doesn't matter).
• The Music City Miracle

Football is obviously my favorite sport, and I'm sure I could come up with 25 more great football games to list.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I think that moments are even more classic when someone achieves something to help their team win as opposed to failing to help the other team win. That's why I won't put Norwood's miss up there. I just can't view a missed FG as one of the best endings in sports. YMMV.

That's a pretty legit point. I'm just convinced that Super Bowl XXV was one of the best played games of the last 15 years of football, so I guess I tend to throw that one in by default.

[RPI-Fan]

*Music City Miracle
*Stanford Band
*Laettner

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Joe Carter's "winning" HR always bothered me because if he had not HR, there is still the next inning and if not, there is still game 7

Huh?

Carter's home run was the first ever to win the series when his team was losing at the time. Since it won the game, it had to come in the bottom of the 9th.

EDIT: It was in game 6 however.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

On the huve topic:
If any of you have caught the NFL films feature "Hey Rookie: Welcome to the NFL," during one of the Anquan Boldin segments they show some FSU highlights. One highlight is Boldin and Sharpe absolutely going at each other until the play ends and the ref has to break them up. FWIW, Boldin never got more than 2 yards off the line of scrimmage. Must be nice to look back and know you were in man coverage against the NFL rookie of the year.

Ah yes the only time I wanted to actually fight a Seminole football player. But damn that sucks he might go down in history for that play instead of his talents. He'll be ready next season watch Thorpe award is within reach.

[Senator]

He won't just be remembered for that play. He is going to have a long and successful career.

[Buccaneer]

You are right about Carter, the Phillies were ahead 6-5. But it still was the 6th game and it was not a true series-ending HR despite all of the hype saying that it was. Maz was a series-ending HR but the score was tied 9-9, thus not a true do-or-die situation (theoretically, Maz could have had another chance in the 12th if he had made on out in the 9th). Imo.

As far as my top 5, let me finish the book first, it's a fast read.

[Maple Leafs]

I guess my problem with the "do or die" theory of sports drama is that it by definition disqualifies all sudden-death OT goals in hockey. After all, if the goal didn't happen, they'd just keep playing.

I realize that not everyone here is interested in hockey, but if you have even a passing interest in sports in general then I don't see how you couldn't consider sudden-death playoff OT to be among the most dramatic situations anywhere.

[Travis]

To add onto the point made by Maple Leaf, not many Edmonton fans will ever forget Klima's OT winner to end one of the longest games in history (at that point). Of course, it's about the only thing they'll remember about Klima, but oh well.

[kcchief19]

Bucc, I do agree on the do-or-die angle. I think in sports a moment is much more dramatic if there is no opportunity for a second chance if you fail. In my book, the most dramatic moment in the "not till the fat lady sings" category that I have witnessed was Laettner's shot against Kentucky. Even watching that now, I am utterly stunned at the precision in which the play was executed and Laettner's incredible calm.

Carter's homer is second to me, only because my best friend at the time was a Phillie fan and this gave me a chance to torture her.

Of course, I think some moments have more drama because of other circumstances -- Jordan's shot being a classic example. Just moments before the shot we saw MJ on the sideline throwing up from the flu. When I have the flu, I can't get out bed, much less hit a game-winning shot in the NBA Finals.

Mazeroski and Bucky Dent's homers get in because of who did them -- who would expect either one of those guys to win a game like that? Reggie Jackson or Roberto Clemente, sure -- but those guys?

In regards to the Bills/Giants Super Bowl, I would say it was "exciting" but I'm not sure if I would classify it as "dramatic" in the sense of the above moments. I think a moment is much more dramatic in a do-or-die situation when the person actually does it, not when they don't do it. Laettner's shot made him a hero; Norwood's miss made him a goat. What's the fun in celebrating a goat?

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

off the top of my head:

• Giants-Bill (Super Bowl XXV)
• The Laetner shot in the Kentucky-Duke tourney game
• The Matt Bahr field goal in the NFC title game (preceding Super Bowl XXV), the Giants beat the 49ers 15-14 (or maybe 15-13, doesn't matter).
• The Music City Miracle

Football is obviously my favorite sport, and I'm sure I could come up with 25 more great football games to list.

A little biased towards the Giants are we? I actualy prefer the 49ers comeback against the Giants in the playoffs a couple years back. Oh and you can't forget about that drubbing the Niners gave the ol' Jints in LT's last game back in what, 93? How many touchdowns did Ricky Watters score that day? Seventeen?