Official 2004 Baseball Game Thread

[mtaystl03]

There have been a few of them scattered but let's start discussing the best out of all the game. The positives, the negatives, everything.

OOTP6?
World Series?
All-Star?
MVP?

What is the best new game? What are you going to get?

I'm leaning towards MVP, but should I be?

[Logan]

Also leaning towards MVP.

As a Met fan, the ability to develop a guy like Scott Kazmir by actually PLAYING with him should be awesome. I won't have to just go by stats to see if a guy is ready for the big show--I have the ability to go by his "stuff."

[FBPro]

I'll probably check MVP out but I'm not sold that they can deliver on all they claim(not that any games do). Probably OOTP for me. Don't forget Total Pro Baseball.

[Balldog]

ESPN for me, more than likely.

Was the other thread the unofficial 2004 baseball game thread?

[FBPro]

I guess.....

[sooner333]

OOTP 6 and either ESPN or MVP. I'm leaning towards MVP because i enjoyed their pitcher/batter interface. It used the high heat point and swing, rather than the cursor, which I hate. ESPN's only alternative to the cursor was timing, which wasn't that fun, because you didn't have to move the joystick to the ball. MVP also seemed like a more fun game to play against friends.

[Huckleberry]

Man. I love the cursor batting style. That is what made Sega World Series Baseball '95 the greatest baseball non-simulation game ever.

[k0ruptr]

espn. so far all the espn games have been awesome.

espn football, basketball, hockey, and college hoops so baseball is gonna be the shit.

sega and espn teaming up was an awesome idea. I love visual concepts.

[cincyreds]

OOTP6 for sure for me and that will probably be it, unless it has a ton of bugs which I trust in Markus and the beta test team that this will be the best OOTP game yet.

[Scholes]

Diamond Mind Baseball. Price tag is the only problem.

[MizzouRah]

Why are you playa hate'n on my BB Games thread for 2004?

OOTP6 for my PC and MVP has already been pre-ordered for Xbox. I can't wait, two weeks from today! Oh how I will loathe playing the Cubbis and Astros.


Todd

[Calis]

I'd say ESPN for sure, but after hearing from some folks here that All-Star Baseball has my one pitch manage mode I'm finding that one very hard to pass up as that's the main thing I enjoy doing.

So I'll probably await the first go round of reviews and see what is said on all of them.

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by Scholes

Diamond Mind Baseball. Price tag is the only problem.

No career mode = ugh........but whatever floats your boat.

Played it for years and can be fairly accurate just seen some really screwy moves by computer manager, IMO it's not the "perfect game" that many claim it is.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by FBPro

No career mode = ugh........but whatever floats your boat.

Played it for years and can be fairly accurate just seen some really screwy moves by computer manager, IMO it's not the "perfect game" that many claim it is.

I bought it years ago, it's about as accurate as you can get as a replay sim, but I quickly grew tired of it and found ootp2. It's definitly overpriced, imo.


Todd

[mtaystl03]

MizzouRah - Sorry didn't mean to hate. Just wanted to get this going again. How much is MVP for XBox pre-ordered?

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I bought it years ago, it's about as accurate as you can get as a replay sim, but I quickly grew tired of it and found ootp2. It's definitly overpriced, imo.


Todd

Sure as far as one season of stats go it isn't bad, but it is just isn't that great as some make it to be and is for sure OVERPRICED.

[tucker342]

I'm stuck between MVP and ESPN. I'm leaning towards ESPN though

We'll see

[Scholes]

For Diamond Mind, I really like the fact that it's a pitch-by pitch sim, as well as all of the statistical thought that goes into it. It seems to capture the game of baseball better than OOTP. I still play OOTP, but mostly with fictional players, because I like the career aspect of play.

One of the best baseball experiences I've done is join a Diamond Mind League, which is just like a fantasy league only using the game to simulate the results. It makes you pay close attention to the MLB and draft/trade accordingly. I like it better than fantasy football even, because over a 162 game season, you feel like you earn what you get, instead of getting lucky for a couple weeks.

Oh well, I still miss BBPro 98.

[SackAttack]

I'm skipping OOTP this year. Definitely getting ESPN Major League Baseball, and I'm tryin' hard to come up with a way to snag MVP Baseball 2004 as well.

The rest of the games, eh, might rent 'em, probably won't buy.

[FBPro]

I have played in a number of DMB leagues and even continue in one now and "for me" knowing roughly how a player will perfrom just isn't that exciting. Glad you enjoy it though.

[mtaystl03]

Whats the release date on ESPN? Where can I find a good solid review or preview or whatever and some screens? Thanks.

[Blade]

I am leaning towards MVP because I prefer gaming on my PC to my PS2. Might wait for reviews first, though.

[Comey]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I'm skipping OOTP this year. Definitely getting ESPN Major League Baseball, and I'm tryin' hard to come up with a way to snag MVP Baseball 2004 as well.

The rest of the games, eh, might rent 'em, probably won't buy.

Skipping OOTP? Why, if I may ask? The entire engine is being re-coded...a whole new game is being built. This isn't the year to skip it, in my opinion.

[Cringer]

Baseball so soon? Isn't the Arena Football League just getting going?

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Isn't the Arena Football League just getting going?

I heard that..............

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Comey

Skipping OOTP? Why, if I may ask? The entire engine is being re-coded...a whole new game is being built. This isn't the year to skip it, in my opinion.

Indirectly, that's exactly why. The engine is being recoded, but I'm not confident that it's going to be perfect the first time around. The current engine frustrates me, and from what I understand, some of what frustrates me about the current engine hasn't been addressed, so I'm going to sit back for a year and see what the general consensus is.

That, and I suspect I'll be spending all my baseball time playing ESPN MLB and maybe even MVP 2004.

[CraigSca]

Sack,

What specifically frustrates you about the OOTP engine? I'd like to hear more...

-Craig

[SackAttack]

Craig,

Most of my gripes with the current OOTP engine have been well-documented by other sources, and they center around various statistical improbabilities. Things like having a guy hit .350 or .360 with 100 walks and 150 strikeouts (and yeah, I had a player like that on one of my teams). I just don't get the sense, either, that there's an accurate model of player development. Yeah, players more or less develop until they're 27ish, but they develop a little too slowly to really be effective major league contributors until they're pushing 30, and then they flame out when they hit 35. It kinda precludes anybody from really developing into a superstar or putting up all-time great numbers when they've only got five to seven years to do it.

I could go on, but I'd just be beating dead horses further. Like I said, I'm gonna sit it out this year. I may give Shaun Sullivan's sim a try - I haven't decided for certain yet - and I'll see what the consensus is on this OOTP before I make my decision on OOTP7.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Craig,

Most of my gripes with the current OOTP engine have been well-documented by other sources, and they center around various statistical improbabilities. Things like having a guy hit .350 or .360 with 100 walks and 150 strikeouts (and yeah, I had a player like that on one of my teams).

Yep, these used to be my same gripes as well. I hate to preface every post with this, but I feel I have to - 1) I came in late in the game in V6 dev and 2) this is Markus' game - however I know Markus mentioned making some changes regarding the issues you mention. I'm going to be clarifying a number of things with him in the next few days and these will be some of them. I'll get back to you on this.

-Craig

[tucker342]

Originally Posted by mtaystl03

Whats the release date on ESPN? Where can I find a good solid review or preview or whatever and some screens? Thanks.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/sports/...w_6089795.html

I think the release date is March 27 or something...

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Yep, these used to be my same gripes as well. I hate to preface every post with this, but I feel I have to - 1) I came in late in the game in V6 dev and 2) this is Markus' game - however I know Markus mentioned making some changes regarding the issues you mention. I'm going to be clarifying a number of things with him in the next few days and these will be some of them. I'll get back to you on this.

-Craig

I appreciate it, but it's not going to change my mind. I'm still going to sit back and wait to see what sort of stuff pops up after it gets put through heavy use by the OOTP community.

tucker - March 23rd.

[Calis]

So it seems like most people here didn't care for the All-Star series, I'm just curious why exactly?

As I've stated before, I'm mostly into the managing aspect, but I want a somewhat realistic game. Is that the issues with it? Or is it just generally not a "fun" game mechanics-wise?

[SackAttack]

Calis,

Nail on the head. The career mode in All-Star is insanely deep, which is very cool. It's also much harder to hit, since the pitches have a greater sense of speed than the other games on the market...but that's partly also why it's not as much fun. Getting 3-hit may be realistic in terms of what we'd be capable of if we were really in the major leagues, but people don't buy baseball games to get shown how difficult it is to play a sport. They buy them so they can put themselves in the shoes of their favorite players.

[JimboJ]

Which new console games have a manage only mode? I know someone mentioned All Star Baseball. Any others?

[mtaystl03]

I heard MVP has all kinds of new options including being able to jump into a game that you are simming and play the rest of it and vice versa. I love OOTP and I want to get it but I also love playing the games. I would prolly get it on my PC, while I like the XBox I like playing on my computer.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by JimboJ

Which new console games have a manage only mode? I know someone mentioned All Star Baseball. Any others?

ootp6





Todd

[MizzouRah]

Some more tidbits about MVP 2004 WHAT'S NEW IN 2004 Part III -- Odds And EndsAs you've seen, there are tons of new features in MVP Baseball 2004. Herein, we cover some of the random factoids about the game that should get you even more excited to play this year's ultimate diamond experience.

Editable players allow you to change everything about you want for any given player, including their positions. This includes the AAA/AA minor league teams, which are fully editable. There are also secondary positions for every player. New Manager Mode is included both as a separate mode unto itself AND incorporated it into Dynasty Mode. Players can manage each at-bat and perform substitutions, hit and runs, steals, and more while the game unfolds. This is also available for ALL minor league teams as well. Players have the ability to sim a few innings, intervene and jump right into the game and play a few innings, jump back out and manage a few innings. It’s a great way to get through even more games in Dynasty Mode while keeping a macro-level of control over teams, their strategies and the results. An infinite number of hit types include pop-ups behind the plate, nubbers, Texas Leaguers, fouls straight back, and tons more. New Bunting results mean that the pitcher won’t always get you out (unless you bunt it right back to him), but you should watch out for the charging 1st and 3rd basemen. More realistic outcomes have been added, including dropped third strikes, check swings (with contact, varying degrees and appeals), wild pitches, passed balls, and lots more -- all of the little things that add up to a great playing game of baseball. Signature home run celebrations are tied into our scripted animations that take place after the home run has left the park. This is so that the gameplay camera can follow the ball out of the park -- especially for balls that barely clear the fence -- so that fielders can track the ball and time their jump at the wall in attempt to make the catch. Once the ball has cleared the fence, certain stars will begin their unique celebrations. There are over 125 signature batting and pitching styles for specific players in the game. An updated stadium crowd shows most of the entire lower bowl in all stadiums in 3D (and animated), and the colors and attire reflect that of the home team. Dynasty Mode can last up to 120 years. Some cool stats on Dynasty Mode: If you played 10 games a year (for MLB, AAA and AA – very, very conservative), it would take 5 hours Managing your rosters, spending a bit of time in the off-season and playing at least one Spring Training game would take 20 hours Total for 1 year of Dynasty mode = 25 hours 25 hours X 120 years of Dynasty = 3000 hours for 120 years 3000 hours / 24 hours in a day = 125 days to get through Dynasty mode That’s over 4 months, without eating, sleeping, or nerding around! New dynamic trade system allows trades to increase as you get closer to the trade deadline. Of course, you always have the option to turn the deadline off if you want to put a different spin on your Dynasty. Players also have the ability to turn CPU trades OFF and this, in conjunction with turning Fair Trades ON, allows you to control every trade in your Dynasty. (I love this feature) The entire trade AI has been overhauled and made much more realistic for MVP Baseball 2004. Gamers can trade minor league players and major league players in the same deal and perform uneven trades with the other teams around the league. Age, salary, and contract status are all taken into account, as well as ability. Team chemistry is an important part of any Dynasty. Managing a baseball team is more than simply substituting players and setting line-ups -- The best managers are the ones that can deal with the varying personalities that exist in a clubhouse and get the most out of that team. Team Chemistry in MVP Baseball 2004 is essentially a sum of your players’ happiness/morale levels. There are different personality types in our game – some guys are more team-oriented than other guys, some guys focus on their individual stats, and so forth. By managing these differing player happiness levels, you will arrive at your team’s chemistry. There are different levels of team chemistry for each team in your organization, so you can’t simply ignore your minor league teams. There are a multitude of choices and options at your fingertips that you have as a Manager to impact player morale and as a result, affect your overall Team Chemistry. Player Progression system has been revamped such that players improve and decline over time. Several attributes will be affected and age plays a role in players' performances. Additionally, the vast majority of minor leaguers will need several years of seasoning before they’re ready for the bigs. Comprehensive in-game awards include AL/NL MVP, AL/NL Cy Young, AL/NL Rookie of the Year, AL/NL Rolaids Relief Man of the Year, AL/NL Rawlings Gold Gloves, AL/NL Louisville Silver Sluggers, All-Star Game MVP, World Series MVP.

[SackAttack]

Dammit, stop making drool when I'm broke!

Thank goodness ESPN comes out 3 weeks later so I can buy both if I have to. ¬_¬

[FBPro]

Hoping that it will actually "do" the things that it claims.

[tucker342]

I wish I actually had money to buy one within the next couple months.....

And how minor league stadiums are they going to have in MVP?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by FBPro

Hoping that it will actually "do" the things that it claims.

This is true. If it doesn't, Redwood City will burn.

[kingnebwsu]

I can get by most of the problems in OOTP except for one thing...awful unrealistic postseason results. I mean, more often than not I'll see some crappy team with less than 90 wins take home the championship. It's ridiculous. I don't wanna hear "it's like real life" either. Just last night in some seasons I let the AI play out, the 85-77 Expos won the Series. To win the title, they beat a 105-win team in the opening round, a 95-win team in the NLCS and only a 90-win team in the championship (as two other 100+win teams had already been knocked out before that. The Expos had the worst record in the playoffs by EIGHT games. I looked at their roster, it was nothing spectacular. They were lowly rated in most offensive/pitching categories.

The thing that irks me most is, when I feel like I should win a championship, then most of the time I *SHOULD* win it. Period. But the percentage of time I win it when I think/know I have the best team is maybe 25-33%. I'm at the point where I'll re-sim to get the desired result, which I hate doing. But it's like, if I'm #1 in runs scored AND runs allowed, have no injuries, go the whole season without losing 3 games in a row, finish with 100-115 wins, AND have the best record in baseball...then I should be the champion more often than not. PERIOD!!! I can't tell you how often I'll be the best team and will get swept out of the opening round of the playoffs. It's like, I haven't lost 3 games in a row all year, why would I in the opening round of the playoffs??? It's not my starting pitching, because in the cases I'm talking about I always have at least 3 excellent SP's, and usually 4-5. It's not my bullpen, because nobody there ever has an ERA over 4. It's not my offense because, as I said, they're the best in baseball (or in some cases, maybe 3rd/4th). It's not my defense either. I don't know what the problem with the engine is, but I do know that my complaint with the postseason must be fixed in version 6, or it will be the last OOTP game I buy. Not trying to sound harsh, it's just my biggest complaint with the game.

Edit: I've played over 100 fictional years with the different versions of OOTP, making it the most played text-sim ever for me. I just need to feel confident that the most deserving team...or at least one of the five most deserving teams...wins the championship on a consistent basis. Not seeing that happen year after year bugs me like craaaaazy!!!

Didn't mean to steal the thread here, just wanted to comment on my beef with OOTP (I've purchased versions 3-5).

I hope ESPN is solid, because I'd like to give that one another chance. MVP&ASB aren't in the running for me, even with their improvements. Hopefully all games are fantastic though!!!

[GoSeahawks]

Electronic Gaming Monthly gave MVP 2004 an 83.3%

[MizzouRah]

I think there are 6 stadiums for AA and AAA, which isn't much, but with 30+ MLB parks, I guess they couldn't expand as much... and they are fake ones I think.

GoSeahawks,

What did EGM say about MVP? and what did it give ESPN? I usually go by IGN's review over any other, but I'm wondering why they gave it an 83?


Todd

[FBPro]

kingnebwsu,

You said you don't wanna hear it BUT it's true....the BEST team doesn't always win and it seems like nowdays rarely wins. Many, many times IRL "my team" has had one of the 2 best if not the best record in baseball and they have only won the WS one time. They REALLY need to correct that BUG in major league baseball.

No flames needed, just food for thought.

[kingnebwsu]

Originally Posted by FBPro

kingnebwsu,

You said you don't wanna hear it BUT it's true....the BEST team doesn't always win and it seems like nowdays rarely wins. Many, many times IRL "my team" has had one of the 2 best if not the best record in baseball and they have only won the WS one time. They REALLY need to correct that BUG in major league baseball.

No flames needed, just food for thought.

I guess it's not so much that I don't win the championship in every year when I think I'm the best team...it's how I lose in the playoffs. I can't tell you how many times my "best" team doesn't even make it out of the first round. And even more disturbing is getting swept out of the first round. That's happened to me more times than I care to remember. Can you imagine a team winning over 100 games year after year, only to get swept out of round one of the playoffs? I don't want to hear any real life examples either...because for all the wild-card champions and Atlanta Braves' one title in the last 10+ years, there are many teams who can at least win the pennant when they're supposed to.

The thing is, I never get as mad with any other text-sim as I have with OOTP. I never have these kind of "problems" with FOF&TCY. Usually when I think I have the best team in FOF, I win. In TCY, My SCE team consistently wins ten games and is always in the running for the title. I know they're different games&different sports, but it goes a long way toward my enjoyment of the game.

(Shrug) In OOTP, my current dynasty is taking over the worst team and using them til I win a title. I'm on my 8th team in the year 2039. It's kind of cool after my team wins a title, and I'm struggling with a new one, to look back and see my old team win 100 games. I think in my 37+ seasons, I've only seen one of my old teams (which I always leave in excellent shape) win the title once after I left. I'm not just talking about the year after either, I'm talking about up to 5 years after I leave them (aka when the core of "my" team is intact). I'm like "ahhh, my old Reds team won 108 games, maybe I can play them in the Series?" Then they don't even make it out of round one.

Now I'm starting to repeat repeat myself. I do feel like I make some valid points in my complaints with the postseason results. We'll see what changes (if any) occur with the postseason in OOTP 6. I hope it's much improved.

[CraigSca]

King,

Just a question for you - do you think there's something inherent in OOTP that would cause your "best" team to lose in the postseason? What would you specifically like changed?

I remember reading this a LONG time ago, but the odds of a "significantly better" team defeating a "bad" team only becomes apparent when series lengths are 7 games or more. Now, when you change the disparity to something miniscule (say, a .550 team vs. a .620 team), the chances are much closer to 50-50. The fact is, anything can happen in baseball's short series - the differences in team strengths and weaknesses only become apparent after a great many games.

I think this study was in an old Baseball Abstract - either '84 or '85. I'll have to see if I can dig it up.

Seriously, what would you have OOTP do to increase the chances of the "better" team winning without programming a bias outside of the normal game parameters?

Thanks,

Craig

[mtaystl03]

Anybody know if MVP is good on the PC? What is better? That or XBox? For purposes of downloading enhancements to stadiums and stuff like that?

[SackAttack]

It doesn't ship 'til the 9th.

[MizzouRah]

PC is probably better if you have the system and video card to run it... not to mention the mods you'll be able to get (ala High Heat). Games like that I just like to load up and play, especially with friends and the like, not to mention the video card I want is $199 vs $50 for the xbox.


Todd