Jail time for underage drinking???

[tucker342]

WTF is wrong with my state?????
-------------------------------

Iowa lawmakers are considering a proposal to up the maximum penalties for underage drinking to include time in prison and $5,000 in fines. The proposal comes as underage drinking remains an issue in Iowa City.

State officials took the first step this week in upgrading the penalties for underage drinking. As presented, the law would increase the underage drinking charge from a simple misdemeanor to an aggravated misdemeanor - a charge issued for a variety of serious crimes including child endangerment and assault with a dangerous weapon. The resulting penalty would increase from a $100 fine to a maximum two years in prison and $5,000 fine. "I can't imagine we would put someone in prison for this offense," said Johnson County Attorney J. Patrick White. "I have reservations about making this an indictable offense."

Councilor Connie Champion said that while she supports stricter state enforcement, she agrees that imprisonment is not an appropriate punishment.

"That seems a little exorbitant to me, I don't think it deserves that kind of treatment," Champion said, adding that she would like to see the state do something. "It would take the burden off of the towns, who have no control over liquor licenses. It doesn't seem right to me that we have to deal with the problems but don't make the rules."

In 2002, local police officers issued 3,807 alcohol-related tickets, 2,271 of which were for underage drinking. That is more than double the underage tickets issued in 2001 - 988. In response to the rise in underage drinking citations, a City Council majority agreed to ban those under 19 from entering bars after 10 p.m. beginning Aug. 1, 2003.

While many bar owners and patrons have complained of the enforcement crackdown, ticket numbers continue to rise. From Aug. 1 through the end of January, officers issued 2,219 alcohol-related citations.

The proposed state law, which was introduced by Rep. Doug Struyk D-Council Bluffs on Monday, would not only crack down on underage possession, it would increase the penalties for minors who provide alcohol to minors as well.

Currently, state law is stricter on those age 21 or older who provide alcohol to minors than it is to those ages 18 to 20. The change would make everyone age 18 and older subject to a state law that punishes those who provide alcohol to minors with a minimum $500 fine.

"This bill is in response to two fatalities in Council Bluffs related to underage drinking," Struyk said. Last April Tyson McCain, 18, of Oakland died after being hit by a drunk driver. In September, Jacob Grote, 17, of Underwood died in a car accident after leaving a party. "This change puts some teeth to the law, so that minors are less apt to purchase alcohol."

Rep. Todd Taylor, D-Cedar Rapids, was one of a three-person subcommittee assigned to consider the bill. Support from two representatives is needed for the bill to stay alive, and Taylor said he does not plan to support it.

"I don't think I want to support it with the war in Iraq going on," Taylor said. "It's not the time to crack down on underage drinking. If it's already in the law, do we need to increase the penalties? Not in my opinion. This is too punitive."

But Shino Emori, 25, a University of Iowa student from Japan, agreed with Struyk that something must be done.

"I think they have to be punished," she said. "People who serve alcohol have to be responsible."

http://www.press-citizen.com/news/021804drinking.htm
-----------------------------------------------------------

This was the most disturbing part for me:

As presented, the law would increase the underage drinking charge from a simple misdemeanor to an aggravated misdemeanor - a charge issued for a variety of serious crimes including child endangerment and assault with a dangerous weapon. The resulting penalty would increase from a $100 fine to a maximum two years in prison and $5,000 fine.

I don't know, but underage drinking isn't as bad as assault with a dangerous weapon....


If this did get through, probably more than half of the people in my high school would be in prison
(And no this wouldn't help get rid of underage drinking)

[yabanci]

Actually, I heard that locking a teenager up with hardened criminals for a while and ruining his or her financial future is a good way to get the kid back on the straight and narrow.

[Hurst2112]

i see no issue with the rule.

If you don't drink, you don't have anything to worry about. Still, I bet the pot laws aren't as severe as the current drinking laws.

I would susspect that it would help drop the amount of underage drinking. there will be some people, who drank before the severe law was in place, that are too scared to pay the higher price. Yes, there will be those who will still drink. These are the people you have to control because (like in my highschool) these were the people who got into cars and killed people.

Might be over the top on the analogy, but I think you get where I am coming from.

[wig]

Don't drink underage if you don't like it.

[RPI-Fan]

Reminds me of a great quote from Jim Rome, referring to Chad Johnson holding up that silly sign (Please don't fine me NFL).

"If you don't want to get fined, don't do something that might get you fined."

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

Yes, there will be those who will still drink. These are the people you have to control because (like in my highschool) these were the people who got into cars and killed people.

And they aren't the ones who will pay attention to the law. The only time at my HS that kids I respected drove drunk involved parties getting busted by the cops. You're always going to have that small portion of the population that doesn't give a fuck, and when you start prosecuting everyone it only leads to people identifying more with the criminals than with those trying to arrest them. This leads to a general disrespect of authority and when the mindset becomes us against them, it is not a good thing. Teenagers and Cops hating each other seems to have become the prevailing mindset in many places, due to laws regarding drinking/marijuana that teenagers perceive as unnecessary, and increasing the penalties will only exacerbate the problem.

[Young Drachma]

People who drive under the influence should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. There is no excuse for it.

But to argue that drinkers 18-20 should be prosecuted seems arcane at best. It's nothing more than political posturing. We have the most oppresive drinking laws for otherwise legal "adults" in the world. It makes no good sense and you'd be hard pressed to find something that would support the notion that lowering the drinking back where it was before Reagan got his hands on it, would somehow increase the amount of drunk driving that occurs.

[SnowMan]

STOP BREAKING THE LAW, ASSHOLE
< /Liar Liar >

[Young Drachma]

Not sure where that's directed. I never drank underage and even after (I'll be 25 in April) I've never been drunk and I only drink a few times a year.

[yabanci]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

We have the most oppresive drinking laws for otherwise legal "adults" in the world.

That's the price of freedom.

[SunDancer]

[quote=tucker342]


I don't know, but underage drinking isn't as bad as assault with a dangerous weapon....

QUOTE]


I don't know, drunk driving is pretty serious business.

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by SunDancer

I don't know, drunk driving is pretty serious business.

Underage drinking does not equal drunk driving. It sometimes can, but a lot of times underagers will have designated drivers, walk to where they are going, or take a cab. Drunk driving is bad and should be punishable with jail, underage drinking isn't.

[Fritz]

drunken driving is nothing. It is just another "feel good" law fueld by easy metrics and local news coverage.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by SunDancer

I don't know, drunk driving is pretty serious business.

It doesn't look like this law is specifically for drunk driving though. It's for drinking period. Technically, based on what was written in the article, a 16 year old who has a glass of champagne at his cousin's wedding could suddenly find himself in jail for two years. To me, that's rather absurd.

[Fritz]

btw, is there assualt wih a safe weapon? If there is, whats the point?

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by yabanci

That's the price of freedom.

Dear lord I hope that's sarcasm.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Telle

It doesn't look like this law is specifically for drunk driving though. It's for drinking period. Technically, based on what was written in the article, a 16 year old who has a glass of champagne at his cousin's wedding could suddenly find himself in jail for two years. Two me, that's rather absurd.

Laws are laws man. Move. IF you feel the need to drink a glass of champagne at a wedding, perhaps you should move to a state where you can do it. In Wisconsin, your parents can bring you into a bar a get you FUCKED up...as long as they are your legal guardian.

There are options out there for all the pre 21s out there who feel it is their right to drink when they aren't supposed to.

Several laws are absurd...but it's what you have to live with to live where you are.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Dear lord I hope that's sarcasm.

Either way, he get's an amen...for argument's sake.

[jonnylungs]

Once again, here is another example of complete lunacy by governments that has escalated to unreasonable levels since MADD got a strangehold on Reagan and the Federal government blackmailed the states into lowering the drinking age by withholding highway money if they didn't lower it.

If the laws being talked about here were in place when I wasn't 21, I'd probably be facing plenty of jail time right now (5 offenses from ages 18-20). Now I know, 5 offenses sounds like I'm a complete idiot, and I definitely was in a few of those cases (Whiskey really does a number). Overzealous enforcement in mainly small towns and Dormitory Staffs at Universities make this law very frightening. Understandable is the underage drunk who is making a scene and acting otherwise disorderly. But those that get tickets just because they have an odor of alcohol on them aren't being treated right.

Myself, I favor a drinking age of 19. Actually I'd go with a universal adult age of 19. So a great majority of people would be out of high school before they could drink. And maybe set a cap on alcohol percentage for people ages 19-20 so you don't have Whiskey hounds like me running around

[Easy Mac]

man, life would be great if people didn't disobey absurd laws... right kunta.

[Telle]

I can see this proposed law doing more harm than good. Kids are going to drink anyways, but now they're going to do even more to hide it. Nobody's going to take their passed-out friend to the hospital, and possibly save their life, if they think they're friend is going to end up in jail.

[Easy Mac]

undola-ed, and in South Carolina, teens can drink as long as their parents give them the alcohol. If its given by someone else, no go.

[Young Drachma]

Why 19? The issue comes up a lot and it might be overly simplistic. But so what, here's what it boils down to:

Why can someone die for their country in the military, choose who the President will be, but not be of "sound mind" enough to drink a beer?!

[yabanci]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Dear lord I hope that's sarcasm.

No, really. Merely having laws is not good enough; I want laws with teeth that will chew us up and spit us out. Only then will we truly be free.

[Easy Mac]

Because then people would make those decisions while intoxicated.. disenchant them first, then let them drink.

[Troll]

why doesnt someone ask the people making this law if they drank alcohol between the ages of 16-20. I'm willing to bet that atleast 70% of them did. It's laws like this that could lead to some pretty ugly situations in within the next 15-20 years.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

undola-ed, and in South Carolina, teens can drink as long as their parents give them the alcohol. If its given by someone else, no go.

Yeah, in Wisconsin too. Or if you're married and your spouse is under 21, but you're over, same deal, you can consent to them getting alcohol.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by yabanci

No, really. Merely having laws is not good enough; I want laws with teeth that will chew us up and spit us out. Only then will we truly be free.

I need a law on smiley useage so I dont get angry for no reason.

[jonnylungs]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Why 19? The issue comes up a lot and it might be overly simplistic. But so what, here's what it boils down to:

Why can someone die for their country in the military, choose who the President will be, but not be of "sound mind" enough to drink a beer?!

I'd like to see a universal age for all these things to be 19. Not just a few, and I completely agree with your logic.

As for why 19.... So people are out of high school. Unless they have problems getting out of there before they are 19.

[tucker342]

Originally Posted by sooner333

Underage drinking does not equal drunk driving. It sometimes can, but a lot of times underagers will have designated drivers, walk to where they are going, or take a cab. Drunk driving is bad and should be punishable with jail, underage drinking isn't.

exactly

I'm not talking about drunk driving in this case, I'm just talking about underage drinking.

And as you stated above, drunk driving should get someone jail time, underage drinking shouldn't

[Easy Mac]

A person can't be arrested for shooting someone without a gun, thats why we have gun laws.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

A person can't be arrested for shooting someone without a gun, thats why we have gun laws.

Hopefully the drinking law will be as effective as those gun laws, then we'll all be safe.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Hopefully the drinking law will be as effective as those gun laws, then we'll all be safe.

not from killer bees

[Easy Mac]

I think they prefer to be called "africanized" bees. Its the PC police and all.

[Suicane75]

Actually, i think it's African Killer Bees. Doesn't Africanized conotate that they were somehow Africaned up, when in fact they are from Africa?

[Fritz]

I dont know, but they have no respect for the gun or drug laws.

[Tigercat]

THis is a stupid law for a number of reasons:

1) Punishment does not fit the crime. They want to risk screwing these kids up more by throwing them in prison? I can be all for a fine to teach a lesson, but throwing a young person in prison for an age defined law has more potential to do harm than good. And if age laws like drinking aren't to protect the kid, what are they for?
2)This law will cost more than it will give. Prisons aren't free and are overcrowed as it is. A fine cannot make up for the using up of finite space that prisons have.

This isn't about "you need to obey all the laws," this is about a STUPID law being passed all together. As informed citizens, we can question laws which has nonsensical goals even if we agree with the principals behind its passing. As it stands, this would serve no purpose for the underage drinkers or for society. Why don't they try tougher laws on drinking and driving instead?

[AgPete]

Christ, I'm glad I don't have to be a kid in today's society. Everything I did as a teenager that was consider normal "boys will be boys mischief" is punishable by a few years in jail or a hefty fine. I though it was already bad enough how most high school students have to go through metal detectors each morning in school, wear see-through backpacks and keep an I.D. visible. Hormone crazy teens get suspended for bringing the Swimsuit Edition of SI to school or saying in anger, "I wish you were dead!" (Columbine flashback!) They might as well lower the voting and draft age to 15 since kids are policed and punished like they're adults.

[sabotai]

And the colleges in Iowa see a record low in admissions...

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

I think they prefer to be called "africanized" bees. Its the PC police and all.

They're called "Africanized" honey bees (or "killer bees") because a Brazilian geneticist in the 50s brought some African bees (to Brazil) and mated them with European bees to create a less aggressive, but more productive honey bee.

Some got mixed up, there was no way to track them, but they figured - wrongly - that the bees would mate the "African" out of them or they'd just die. Instead, they traveled and now they're in the SW United States. European honey bees don't travel long distances, while Africanized ones do. But they look the same, except African bees are more alert and can sense danger from a longer range.

What they got was a more aggressive bee that was nothing like its European counterparts. The African bees were of no real consequence to Africans, incidentally, since they knew how to deal with them. But not in our hemisphere.

It's got nothing to do with PC police or anything like that. The term "killer bees" was grossly exaggerated and that's why the term "Africanized" bees has come into vogue.

[sabotai]

Either someone's sarcasm detector is not working, or Dark Cloud has been has been doing some killer bee research and has been dying to let us know what he found out.

[Fritz]

maybe he is a killerbeeologist. Good to know we have one of those around.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Either someone's sarcasm detector is not working, or Dark Cloud has been has been doing some killer bee research and has been dying to let us know what he found out.

Hehe...a little of both.

[sabotai]

"Killer" bees are overrated anyway. Give me the Japanese Hornet any day. A few dozen of them would destroy an army of "killer" bees.

[Easy Mac]

If you were African, would you want to be thought of as a killer... I don't think so. Just another way the man is keeping em down.

[noxiousdog]

Amazing. 16 year olds are responsible enough to be allowed to control two tons of steel moving 70 miles an hour, but heaven forbid they have a beer.

Are kids irresponsible because that's their nature? Or are kids irresponsible because we never give them responsibility?

[sabotai]

Many other countries have a much lower drinking age than the US and don't seem to have all of the problems we have with drunk driving and kids drinking too much.

[Easy Mac]

Because we're immoral... Yeahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

[tucker342]

how about 18 year olds are old enough to get drafted and die for their country, but they're not old enough to have a beer with a few of their friends.... now that's fucked up

[Easy Mac]

All this rabble-rousing is getting me stirred up... I'm going for a Guiness, who wants one!