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#1 | |||
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Placerville, CA
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Phoenix Has Become Valley of the Subsidy
Interesting article from the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Feb26.html Quote:
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#2 |
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Head Coach
Join Date: Dec 2001
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That's crap to saddle the taxpayers with the bill...absolutely horrible...
__________________
"Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales |
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#3 |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Placerville, CA
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When I lived in Phoenix, I didn't mind the stadiums for the Suns and the Diamondbacks - because Jerry Colangelo generally tries to put a winning team out there for the fans. The Cardinals, however, suck badly, and always will, as long as the Bidwell regime is in charge. They don't deserve a new ballpark, and Phoenix deserves a better football team.
I have no opinion on the Coyotes... I could give a rats ass about hockey. |
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#4 |
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Grey Dog Software
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL
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Bank One Ballpark has already paid back the city's investment nearly double based on the World Series and increased tourism to Phoenix over the summer (normally everyone leaves, now some stay and watch the D-Backs). The two stadiums in Glendale are paid by the city inhabitants and should increase their property value immensely, not to mention bring a great deal of sales tax revenue to what was a pretty barren city three years ago. In 2-3 years, Glendale will probably be one of the more active areas in Phoenix - maybe even passing Tempe. So, local businesses there are thrilled.
You also have to look at how these were paid. Most use bonds (some have even already been paid off), while others used an increase in the car rental/hotel tax for tourists. Given the payoff this city has already received (host one World Series, College Championship - Fiesta Bowl) and will receive (Super Bowl in 2008 and potential Hockey All-star game), these moves look to pay huge dividends for what was a second-rate city just 4 or 5 years ago. Plus, there was no increase in sales tax or state income tax needed to cover it, so the city inhabitants didn't really get stuck with the bill the way it seems in the story. If you went to a D-Backs game, you paid slight more for a few things. But, if you stayed at home and never went to one sporting event, this entire thing didn't cost you a dime. |
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#5 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Placerville, CA
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Quote:
First of all, the Bank One Ballpark DID include a county sales tax increase. People were so pissed off about it that every one of the county supervisors that approved it (without voter consent) either resigned or were voted out of office, with the exception of Mary Rose Wilcox. And she got SHOT over it. So, yes, if you lived in Maricopa county and never went to see the D-Backs, you DID pay for it with a 1/2 cent sales tax increase for a period of 2 or 3 years. I don't know the details of the financing with regards to the Cardinals and Coyotes stadiums. Will they be good for Glendale? Probably. But don't have delusions of that place being a more popular destination than Tempe. Unless ASU re-locates and takes their 20,000 college hotties with them. Personally, I think both stadiums are a bad investment. The Coyotes are bleeding money, like many other NHL teams, and have never been successful. The NHL will probably be facing a major work stoppage just in time for the grand opening of the new hockey rink. That's BAD. And Glendale HAD to know that there were labor problems brewing. Not to mention that the Coyotes just aren't very successful on the ice. The Cardinals are highly unlikely to improve with the addition of the new stadium. People just don't show up to their games, and they won't as long as the Bidwells are content to leave a ton of salary cap money on the table every year while they put a mediocre team on the field. What Glendale will have is a half-empty state of the art facility that only sees real usage every few years when they get to host a Super Bowl or a Final Four or maybe the Fiesta Bowl. Otherwise, it will sit empty, and the Sun Devils will continue to draw a bigger crowd than the Cardinals. I have no comment on the Suns arena. I moved there just after it opened, and don't know much about the financing. I can say that it's much nicer than the "Madhouse on McDowell" where they used to play, and it's a sucky place for hockey because of the obstructed view seats in half the place. |
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#6 |
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Grey Dog Software
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL
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Well, the Cardinals stadium doesn't cost most Phoenix inhabitants a thing as they were paid by hotel and rental car tax. The Glendale Arena is covered by the city, so I don't know if their inhabitants have to pay a higher tax, but I'm pretty sure there's no increase on sales tax for them. Plus, I know non-Glendale residents don't pay anything. As to the D-Back, there was a small Phoenix sales tax, but it only last a couple years and has passed and is no longer in effect. Plus, it was relagated to only certain locations (hence my comment on going to the games).
Going into this entire thing, Phoenix had the suns and cardinals. There was absolutely no traffic in Glendale (it was essentially a bunch of farm land) and downtown Phoenix had businesses hemorrhaging cash and the area was very bad. Since the DBacks Stadium was put there, hotels, restaurants and overall commerce has increased significantly. They've made so much money that they are going to redesign the Civic Center over the next 4-5 years. The same thing will happen to Glendale. I'm not a huge fan of government subsidies to sports teams, but I think they can work in certain situations. Essentially, by paying $100-$200 million for a stadium you can increase in commerce, tax revenue, conventions, and even increase your city's prestige. But, and here's the big caveat, you must get an increase in tourism/conventions to bring in the outside revenue so that your citizens aren't saddled with a huge bill. A place like Phoenix can do this, but I doubt it would work in Milwaukee. |
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#7 |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Placerville, CA
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Well, there's been a lot of hot air over re-designing the Civic Center for years. Nothing has ever happened, and there are too many people in Phoenix that have delusions of making the city a convention destination, a la Las Vegas.
The politics and business corruption in that city are staggering, if you know how to look for it. You'll never know it from reading the Arizona Republic or watching channel 12 news, because both media outlets have a rich mob history to their origins. Do some research on this... start with John McCain. Look up names like Don Bowles and Kemper Marley. Find out who "the Phoenix 40" were, and what they're calling themselves these days. After a while, you'll see that every major business and civic organization in the city is connected, and the connections aren't pretty. |
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#8 | |
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Grey Dog Software
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL
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Quote:
Every major city has some skeletons. My point here is that valley has benefited immensely from having the DBacks. Just look at the sheer revenue brought into downtown Phoenix in the past three years compared to years before. The difference is staggering. Knowing what we do now, there can be no case made that the city would be better off if they didn't pass the stadium. The same looks to be true in Glendale over the next 3-4 years. The Super Bowl itself projects to bring more revenue to Glendale than the past three years of commerce combined. Plus, the number of conventions and business trips planned to the valley figures to double by 2007. All the while, Phoenix inhabitants still pay extremely low property tax, income tax and somewhat low sales tax when compared nationally. So, I'd say that the valley has come out pretty well from this deal so far. |
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