Possible Kerry Breaking News

[Bubba Wheels]

Heard this one on radio last night (Michael Reagan show I believe). Apparently the anti-war group that Kerry was the spokesman for after his return from VietNam actually created a "hit-list" of 7 conservative Senators that this group wanted to assasinated to stop the war. This supposedly took place during a meeting of the group that Kerry claims he did not attend. As Drudge would say, developing...

[albionmoonlight]

If I learn that John Kerry conspired to kill United States senators, then I would be less likely to vote for him than I am now.

If, however, I learn that John Kerry did not conspire to kill United States senators, then I would be no more or less likely to vote for him than I am now.

[rkmsuf]

well whoopie ding...

[Easy Mac]

This just in... monkeys were seen flying out of Cheney's ass. No word yet as to whether President Bush was in attendance or was one of the monkeys.. he however denies it.

[sachmo71]

If monkies were flying out of Cheney's ass, I would be more inclined to vote for him, only because I would imagine that a special congressional committee would be formed to find out exactly how those monkies got there, and why they were flying out of his rectum. That would be one of those things that you would just have to see to believe.

[Ksyrup]

If the underlying facts are correct about this particular meeting, I only hope the media insists on as much proof that Kerry was NOT there, than it has required of Bush to prove that he WAS in Alabama. Otherwise, my thoughts on this topic are that I'll wait to see this somewhere other than drudge before considering this to be an issue worth looking at.

[Ksyrup]

According to this, he at least voted against it. If that's true, I don't see why he would need to lie about whether he was even at the meeting. If anything, it says something positive about his character that he voted against it, then quit. A shrewd politico could probably spin this as a positive for him.

EDIT: Well, the idea that he would now employ people in his campaign that openly talk about wanting to assassinate people back then, could certainly cause him some trouble. But as for his participation, I don't see a problem for him.

Publication:The New York Sun;

Date:Mar 12, 2004;

Section:Front page;

Page:1

HOW KERRY QUIT VETERANS GROUP AMID DARK PLOT


When Talk Turned To Assassination He Exited, Vet Says


By THOMAS H. LIPSCOMB Special to the Sun



The anti-war group that John Kerry was the principal spokesman for debated and voted on a plot to assassinate politicians who supported the Vietnam War.

Mr. Kerry denies being present at the November 12-15, 1971, meeting in Kansas City of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and says he quit the group before the meeting. But according to the current head of Missouri Veterans for Kerry, Randy Barnes, Mr. Kerry,who was then 27,was at the meeting, voted against the plot, and then orally resigned from the organization.

Mr. Barnes was present as part of the Kansas City host chapter for the 1971 meeting and recounted the incident in a phone interview with The New York Sun this week.

In addition to Mr. Barnes’s recollection placing Mr. Kerry at the Kansas City meeting, another Vietnam veteran who attended the meeting, Terry Du-Bose, said that Mr. Kerry was there.

There are at least two other independent corroborations that the antiwar group Vietnam Veterans Against the War, of which Mr. Kerry was the most prominent national spokesman, considered assassinating American political leaders who favored the war.

Gerald Nicosia’s 2001 book “Home To War” reports that one of the key leaders of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Scott Camil,“proposed the assassination of the most hard-core conservative members of Congress,as well as any other powerful, intractable opponents of the antiwar movement.”The book reports on the Kansas City meeting at which Mr.Camil’s plan was debated and then voted down.

Mr. Nicosia’s book was widely praised by reviewers as varied as General Harold Moore, author of “We Were Soldiers”; Gloria Emerson, who had been a New YorkTimes reporter during the Vietnam War, and leftist Howard Zinn. Mr. Kerry himself stated in a blurb on the cover that the book “ties together the many threads of a difficult period.” Mr. Kerry hosted a party for the book in the Hart Senate Office Building that was televised on C-SPAN.

Another source is an October 20,1992, oral history interview of Scott Camil on file at the University of Florida Oral History Archive.In it,Mr.Camil speaks of his plan for an alternative to Mr.Kerry’s idea of symbolically throwing veterans’ medals over the fence onto the steps of the Capitol during the Dewey Canyon III demonstration in Washington in April of 1971.

“My plan was that, on the last day we would go into the [congressional] offices we would schedule the most hardcore hawks for last — and we would shoot them all,” Mr. Camil told the Oral History interviewer. “I was serious.”

In a phone interview with the Sun this week, Mr. Camil did not dispute either the account in the Nicosia book or in the oral history.He said he plans to accept an offer by the Florida Kerry organization to become active in Mr. Kerry’s presidential campaign. Campaign aides to Mr. Kerry invited Mr.Camil to a meeting for the senator in Orlando last week, but they did not meet directly.

Mr. Camil was known to colleagues in the anti-war movement as “Scott the Assassin.” Mr. Camil told The New York Sun he got the name in Vietnam for “sneaking down to the Vietnamese villages at night and killing people.”

According to the Nicosia book and interviews with VVAW members who were involved, at theVietnamVeterans Against the War Kansas City leadership conference, Mr. Camil tried to put his plan into effect. He called together eight to 10 Marines to organize something he called “The Phoenix Project.” The original Phoenix Project during the Vietnam War was an attempt to destroy the Viet Cong leadership by assassination. Mr. Camil’s Phoenix Project planned to execute the Southern senatorial leadership that was financing the Vietnam War. Senators like John Stennis, Strom Thurmond, and John Tower were his targets, according to Mr. Camil. They were to be killed during the Senate Christmas recess the following month.

After an attempt to parcel out the hit jobs required to kill the senators, Mr. Camil’s plan was presented to all the chapter coordinators present and the VVAW leadership. Mr. Nicosia’s book recounts, “What Camil sketched was so explosive that the coordinators feared lest government agents even hear of it. So they decamped to a church on the outskirts of town with the intention of debating the plan in complete privacy.When they got to the church, however, they found that the government was already on to them; their ‘debugging expert’ uncovered microphones hidden all over the place. An instantaneous decision was made to move again to Common Ground, a Mennonite hall used by homeless vets as a ‘crash pad.’”

“Camil was deadly serious, brilliant, and highly logical,” Mr. Nicosia told the Sun.

The plan was voted down. There’s a difference of opinion as to how narrow the margin was.

The claims of Mr. Kerry’s involvement in the assassination discussions in Kansas City have apparently not been previously reported.

The most recent book that focuses on Mr. Kerry’s relations with his fellow Vietnam veterans, Douglas Brinkley’s “Tour of Duty,” reports the events as follows: “In a November 10 letter housed at the VVAW papers in Madison,Wisconsin, Kerry quit, politely noting he had been proud to serve in the national organization. His reason was straightforward: ‘personality conflicts and differences in political philosophy.’ In two days,VVAW was meeting in Kansas City and he would be a noshow.”

But in a footnote, Mr. Brinkley acknowledges,“I could not locate Kerry’s November 10 VVAW resignation letter supposedly housed at the Wisconsin archives. The quote I used comes directly from Andrew E. Hunt’s essential ‘The Turning: A History of Vietnam Veterans Against the War (1999).”

When asked by the Sun who told him Mr. Kerry was “no-show” at Kansas City, Mr. Brinkley replied, “Senator Kerry.” Mr. Brinkley also stated that Mr. Kerry did not have a personal copy of the resignation letter either.

But in an interview with the Sun, the “essential” historian Mr. Brinkley relied on as his source, Andrew E. Hunt, said “I never stated that there was a letter of resignation, or even implied in my book that I saw one. I never could find one in the archives in Wisconsin. I don’t know how Brinkley got the idea that I had. I never could figure out when Kerry resigned.” When asked about Mr. Brinkley’s statement that Mr. Kerry didn’t have a copy of the resignation letter either, Mr. Hunt said, “I don’t know about that. I never could get an interview with Senator Kerry. But I never saw anyone who saves things the way Kerry does.”

Whether or not there was a letter of resignation dated November 10 is obviously important, since it predates the Kansas City assassination discussions by two days.

Mr. Camil said he did not recall whether Mr. Kerry was at the Kansas City meeting nor did he recall whether he had discussed his assassination plan with Mr. Kerry.

But Mr. Barnes, the head of the Missouri Veterans for Kerry, said, “I don’t think there was a letter of resignation. He just said he was resigning after the vote.”

Clearly there is considerable confusion about the time of Mr. Kerry’s resignation.According to Mr. Nicosia,“He resigned from the executive committee” after a spectacular argument with VVAW leader Al Hubbard at the July national leadership meeting in St Louis.

But on behalf of the John Kerry campaign, spokesman David Wade told the Sun yesterday that Mr. Kerry resigned from Vietnam Veterans Against the War “sometime in the summer of 1971 after the August meeting in St. Louis, which Kerry did not attend.”

Mr.Wade also said,“Kerry was not at the Kansas City meeting.”

Two-thirds of the American troops in Vietnam at the height of American commitment in 1969 had already been withdrawn in the “Vietnamization” policy in effect at the time of the VVAW Kansas City conference in November 1971. When asked recently by the Sun why the assassinations still seemed necessary, Mr. Camil replied: “The war was still going on. We had to stop it.”

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

If monkies were flying out of Cheney's ass, I would be more inclined to vote for him, only because I would imagine that a special congressional committee would be formed to find out exactly how those monkies got there, and why they were flying out of his rectum. That would be one of those things that you would just have to see to believe.

I'd think it would go to the Supreme Court, but Justice Scalia would refuse to remove himself from the case even though he went on a fling monkey hunting trip with Cheney immediately after the incident. They obviously did not talk about mysterious monkey's exiting Mr. Cheney's rectum.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

I'd think it would go to the Supreme Court, but Justice Scalia would refuse to remove himself from the case even though he went on a fling monkey hunting trip with Cheney immediately after the incident. They obviously did not talk about mysterious monkey's exiting Mr. Cheney's rectum.

It was an unspoken understanding between them. Cheney was only there to shoot monkeys out of his ass to be shot at, like those clay targets. Cheney was less expensive than one of those machines.

[sachmo71]

If they were in a duck blind, like they say, there wouldn't be very much sport in shooting the monkies, would there. Damn, I hate fake sportsmen.

[Hurst2112]

I thought this was going to be about the film of Kerry snowboarding on ESPN.

I guess not.

[Ksyrup]

I just heard about that. Apparently, he was filmed falling while skiing, and when one of the reporters jokingly asked him about it, he said, "I DO NOT FALL. That **hole (referring to a Secret Service agent) tripped me." This guy's got issues.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I just heard about that. Apparently, he was filmed falling while skiing, and when one of the reporters jokingly asked him about it, he said, "I DO NOT FALL. That **hole (referring to a Secret Service agent) tripped me." This guy's got issues.

So how did he whiff on the football catch picture? Big gust of wind?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

If monkies were flying out of Cheney's ass, I would be more inclined to vote for him, only because I would imagine that a special congressional committee would be formed to find out exactly how those monkies got there, and why they were flying out of his rectum. That would be one of those things that you would just have to see to believe.

And you thought the Clinton sex scandalls were a circus

SI

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I just heard about that. Apparently, he was filmed falling while skiing, and when one of the reporters jokingly asked him about it, he said, "I DO NOT FALL. That **hole (referring to a Secret Service agent) tripped me." This guy's got issues.

I don't see anything wrong with that comment. Pretty funny actually.

[Ksyrup]

There's nothing *wrong* with the comment, per se. I just think it shows what kind of a person he is.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

There's nothing *wrong* with the comment, per se. I just think it shows what kind of a person he is.

I am kind of suprised you would buy into third-hand hearsay b.s. like that...

[Ksyrup]

Supposedly there is tape of it, although I haven't heard it. I guess I need to preface every comment I make with, "...assuming it's true?" I think it stands to reason that if it didn't occur, it can't be attributed to him. It seems to be in line with his personality, though, based on confirmed comments/episodes.

[rkmsuf]

Kerry has never lost at foosball. He either wins or lets the other guy win...

[KevinNU7]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I just heard about that. Apparently, he was filmed falling while skiing, and when one of the reporters jokingly asked him about it, he said, "I DO NOT FALL. That **hole (referring to a Secret Service agent) tripped me." This guy's got issues.

What if I wrote it like this...

Apparently, he was filmed falling while skiing, and when one of the reporters jokingly asked him about it, he jokenly responded, "I do not fall. That **hole (referring to a Secret Service agent) tripped me."

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

What if I wrote it like this...

Apparently, he was filmed falling while skiing, and when one of the reporters jokingly asked him about it, he jokenly responded, "I do not fall. That **hole (referring to a Secret Service agent) tripped me."

Or if it was:

"Apparently, he was filmed falling while skiing, and when one of the reporters jokingly asked him about it, he jokenly responded, "I do not fall. That **hole (referring to a Secret Service agent) tripped me. I'm going to rip his f-ing head off."

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

There's nothing *wrong* with the comment, per se. I just think it shows what kind of a person he is.

What, that he can't ski?

Seriously...I don't like to get into political discussion...here or anywhere; but I don't think it darken's this guys character at all for swearing about something tongue in cheek (if he did actually say it). I can think of a lot worse things that Presidents (or candidates) have said, or have done in the past.

He swore...big deal.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

What, that he can't ski?

Seriously...I don't like to get into political discussion...here or anywhere; but I don't think it darken's this guys character at all for swearing about something tongue in cheek (if he did actually say it). I can think of a lot worse things that Presidents (or candidates) have said, or have done in the past.

He swore...big deal.

I don't care that he swore, either, although he's been caught several times and at some point, it DOES become rather un-Presidential. I'm referring more to how he treats people and his issues about never looking fallible. It wasn't enough to just laugh off the spill, he had to say that he never falls and that the other guy tripped him.

...assuming that's what he said, of course.*


*for Subby

[Bubba Wheels]

I guess the thing is if Kerry gets elected, we can shoot anyone we don't like or agree with since his group set the precedent. That's the issue.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't care that he swore, either, although he's been caught several times and at some point, it DOES become rather un-Presidential. I'm referring more to how he treats people and his issues about never looking fallible. It wasn't enough to just laugh off the spill, he had to say that he never falls and that the other guy tripped him.

...assuming that's what he said, of course.*


*for Subby

Ah, I see.

I will leave it at that. There are things about this that you care more about than I. I was just looking at it from a dude's standpoint.

No problems mate.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

I guess the thing is if Kerry gets elected, we can shoot anyone we don't like or agree with since his group set the precedent. That's the issue.

That precedent was already started with the current administration.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I don't care that he swore, either, although he's been caught several times and at some point, it DOES become rather un-Presidential...

What's "Presidential" anymore? Bill Clinton couldn't have been more un-Presidential if he had delivered the state of the union address while wearing women's underwear... and he won two terms.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

No problems mate.

Politics will never come between prog rock fans. Speaking of which [threadjack alert], have you ever head of Pain of Salvation?

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

I guess the thing is if Kerry gets elected, we can shoot anyone we don't like or agree with since his group set the precedent. That's the issue.

Maybe you should read what Ksyrup posted above...not like it'll matter. If someone came out and said Kerry anally raped a dog while sacrificing a donkey to Satan, you'd beleive it.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Politics will never come between prog rock fans. Speaking of which [threadjack alert], have you ever head of Pain of Salvation?

I have heard of them...never heard them. Wasn't the band formed when 1 guy was 11 or something.

Speaking of thread jack. I went and saw Dream Theater last week. Probably the best show of the 9 that I have seen.

And, I got my Rush 30th anniversary tickets for Milwaukee.

AND...I just increased my Spock's Beard catalog by 4 last week, including their DVD.

But I digress.

Rock on dude \m/

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sabotai

If someone came out and said Kerry anally raped a dog while sacrificing a donkey to Satan, you'd beleive it.

Personally, I don't know that I'd automatically believe it ... but it wouldn't particularly surprise me either.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

That precedent was already started with the current administration.

Not to say I agree with Bubba here, but you're arguing that the group Kerry was a part of at one point conspired to assassinate Senators during the Vietnam War....because we went into Iraq 30 years later?

(FWIW, I don't buy that Kerry was a part of the plot, and these guilt by association things are just as annoying as Kerry bringing up Vietnam on every campaign stop)

[rkmsuf]

Was the dog cute?

[Bubba Wheels]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Maybe you should read what Ksyrup posted above...not like it'll matter. If someone came out and said Kerry anally raped a dog while sacrificing a donkey to Satan, you'd beleive it.

Ahhh, Sabotai, lunch time is over, the garbage cans all have the lids back on them, and now you can unwind from hunting for that elusive next meal staking out the alley behind the Palace diner! As you settle down into your public library seat, scaring away any and all little kids, you navigate on your taxpayer funded computer and internet provider to rejoin us all at this wonderful place of social discourse! Welcome back!

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Not to say I agree with Bubba here, but you're arguing that the group Kerry was a part of at one point conspired to assassinate Senators during the Vietnam War....because we went into Iraq 30 years later?

(FWIW, I don't buy that Kerry was a part of the plot, and these guilt by association things are just as annoying as Kerry bringing up Vietnam on every campaign stop)

I was replying to the quote as outlined by Bubba in his post. I don't think the quote is hard to read, but so it is.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Ahhh, Sabotai, lunch time is over, the garbage cans all have the lids back on them, and now you can unwind from hunting for that elusive next meal staking out the alley behind the Palace diner! As you settle down into your public library seat, scaring away any and all little kids, you navigate on your taxpayer funded computer and internet provider to rejoin us all at this wonderful place of social discourse! Welcome back!

What the fuck are you babbling about? (If you're trying to imply that I'm a liberal or something...dude...you are not paying attention)

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Personally, I don't know that I'd automatically believe it ... but it wouldn't particularly surprise me either.

Well Jon, as it appears, I have been investigating this Kerry worshipping Satan rumor going around and I found some surprising facts. Just as I was about to give up, I discovered that Kerry does in fact worship the dark lord. Apparently, he's been down to Hell and gave worship to him personally.

And of course, someone was there to record it. Here's the proof. A picture of Kerry worshiping Satan. He's in the bottom right of the photo.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sabotai

A picture of Kerry worshiping Satan. He's in the bottom right of the photo.

Well done.

'Course, after his association with one of Satan's concubines, this really doesn't come as much of a surprise.

[Easy Mac]

Thats just a Tenacious D concert.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Thats just a Tenacious D concert.

Remind me never to go to a Tenacious D concert then. Those peopel do not look liek they are having a good time.

[rkmsuf]

I don't see a donkey or a dog there...

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Remind me never to go to a Tenacious D concert then. Those peopel do not look liek they are having a good time.

If you saw Jack Black topless, would you?

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I don't see a donkey or a dog there...

If there's a photo of that rumor out there...I don't think I want to find it.

[sachmo71]

All should enjoy Tenacious D concerts.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

I have heard of them...never heard them. Wasn't the band formed when 1 guy was 11 or something.

Speaking of thread jack. I went and saw Dream Theater last week. Probably the best show of the 9 that I have seen.

And, I got my Rush 30th anniversary tickets for Milwaukee.

AND...I just increased my Spock's Beard catalog by 4 last week, including their DVD.

But I digress.

Rock on dude \m/

Not sure whether you are into more mellow prog rock/metal, but if so, you simply must get Pain of Salvation's (I hesitate to abbreviate to POS for obvious reasons!) new live acoustic album 12:05. It's a greatest hits album of sorts, performed live with acoustic guitar and piano, reworked and interspersed with some new material. Quite honestly, it's mindblowing. You also need to check out their most recent "regular" CD, Remedy Lane, which is amazing as well. The songs are obviously progressive, but it's mixed with some beautiful, almost pop-ish melodies and choruses.

Everything about this band is stunning - music, vocals, lyrics...I haven't been this excited about a band in quite awhile. They've been around since 1997 or so, but since they are from Sweden, they aren't that well known here. They're clearly progressive in a Queensryche/Fates Warning kind of way, but then they just add a whole new level to that type of progressive rock/metal that doesn't make them sound like DT/Queensryche clones.

Highly recommended.

Oh, and SD was nice enough to add one of these for us to use. So....

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

I was replying to the quote as outlined by Bubba in his post. I don't think the quote is hard to read, but so it is.

It doesn't really matter, but there were two claims Bubba made. Bubba claimed both that if Kerry was elected, the US government could kill anyone it wanted and that this was because the VVAW set the precedent back in 1971. It seems you focused on the former, I focused on the latter.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

If you saw Jack Black topless, would you?

Jack Black = singer/actor
Lewis Black = comedian

Oops, wrong thread...

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Not sure whether you are into more mellow prog rock/metal, but if so, you simply must get Pain of Salvation's (I hesitate to abbreviate to POS for obvious reasons!) new live acoustic album 12:05. It's a greatest hits album of sorts, performed live with acoustic guitar and piano, reworked and interspersed with some new material. Quite honestly, it's mindblowing. You also need to check out their most recent "regular" CD, Remedy Lane, which is amazing as well. The songs are obviously progressive, but it's mixed with some beautiful, almost pop-ish melodies and choruses.

Everything about this band is stunning - music, vocals, lyrics...I haven't been this excited about a band in quite awhile. They've been around since 1997 or so, but since they are from Sweden, they aren't that well known here. They're clearly progressive in a Queensryche/Fates Warning kind of way, but then they just add a whole new level to that type of progressive rock/metal that doesn't make them sound like DT/Queensryche clones.

Highly recommended.

I am an any prog fan, soft or hard. I will put their newest CD on my list of ones to get.

I have been in a Neal Morse (latest solo, and transatlantic) kick lately. Something in the vein of Pain of Salvation's style would probably fit into my tastes about now.

Thanks