Why do we let OPEC screw us?

[stevew]

2 something for a gallon of gas? That is crazy, and I hear its gonna get *more* expensive.

Over the next ten years, we, as a country, should devote ourselves into developing new sources of power for our cars. Screw these terrorists. We pay them money for this gas, and then they fund militants.

[Sharpieman]

Its more complicated than that, but I agree alternative fuel sources is the best answer

[stevew]

Oh, I know its more complicated. And I know some of the reason is the unnatural influence the oil companies have in our government.

[Peregrine]

There's a lot of complexity in the path that oil takes to market, transport, then refinement into gas, and a lot of companies with their fingers in the pie. Alternative fuel sources are certainly ideal, but the primary driving factor of high gas prices is high demand in the US. If we take steps to lower our demand, the thin-stretched supplies will have a chance to recover and drop prices.

[stevew]

Oh, and I know everywhere else in the world they pay a lot more for gas too. But that isnt the issue Im talking about. Im talking about gas for the US, the only country I buy it in.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

There's a lot of complexity in the path that oil takes to market, transport, then refinement into gas, and a lot of companies with their fingers in the pie. Alternative fuel sources are certainly ideal, but the primary driving factor of high gas prices is high demand in the US. If we take steps to lower our demand, the thin-stretched supplies will have a chance to recover and drop prices.

So you dont think they are fucking us?

[Peregrine]

We're always going to have to deal with OPEC, as long as we buy gas. But most of the time gas prices aren't as high as they are now. There are other factors involved, is all I'm saying. Especially high demand is one of them, political instability in Venezuala (one of our largest suppliers of oil) etc. Sure I think there is a lot of gouging going on, but it's not just OPEC doing it.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I hate to tell you this; but it is their gas and they can sell how much of it they want at what price they want. We simply should not buy it, as you have pointed out. Unless you want the U.S. to invade those countries too. (By the way, that last part was simply a joke).

[-Mojo Jojo-]

Robert J Samuelson, who is one of the Washington Post's better columnists wrote a piece last month answering exactly this question. It's worth the read.

[RendeR]

Actually when you consider the inflation rate since, lets say 1970, gasoline is one of the cheapest more affordable items we buy regularly. if gasoline wasn't regulated by the government (as in supply and demand by purchasing from OPEC and others) our gallon of gasoline could very well cost of around 4.45 a gallon.

count your blessings.

I do agree that we need alternatives, I will buy the first electric car that can actually perform as well as my gasoline powered one. When they get to that level, I think you'll see millions of people switching.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by -Mojo Jojo-

Robert J Samuelson, who is one of the Washington Post's better columnists wrote a piece last month answering exactly this question. It's worth the read.

Interesting article. Assuming that most of it is factual, there is a lot of information there that I didn't know.

[Peregrine]

Interesting column, I agree. The only thing I might mention is that the IEA's estimate of unfound oil reserves seems rather high to me. A lot of smart people I know seem to believe that there's going to be a rapid falloff in the world's ability to provide all the oil that's demanded, particularly as countries like China and India rapidly embrace a car culture and demand skyrockets. They point out that big oil discoveries have become rarer and rarer in recent years, and most of the discoveries have some kind of technical problem that would make recovering their oil expensive. Iran has major fields that are locked up because of this reason, Canada's oil sands contain massive amounts of oil but the amount currently extracted is miniscule because it's hard and expensive and requires huge, huge amounts of natural gas, which is also very expensive and getting rarer currently. More info than you ever wanted to know about this (warning, depressing)

http://www.hubbertpeak.com/

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

There's a lot of complexity in the path that oil takes to market, transport, then refinement into gas, and a lot of companies with their fingers in the pie. Alternative fuel sources are certainly ideal, but the primary driving factor of high gas prices is high demand in the US. If we take steps to lower our demand, the thin-stretched supplies will have a chance to recover and drop prices.

I can't speak to OPEC, but I know the last couple of years, Exxon-Mobil has turned profits of 2 BILLION DOLLARS PER QUARTER. Who's screwing who?

SI

[ISiddiqui]

I hate to tell you this; but it is their gas and they can sell how much of it they want at what price they want. We simply should not buy it, as you have pointed out.

Yep, I agree. And besides, the price of gas ain't that high, when you compare it to the inflation rate.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I can't speak to OPEC, but I know the last couple of years, Exxon-Mobil has turned profits of 2 BILLION DOLLARS PER QUARTER. Who's screwing who?

SI

Not on gasoline production but on their decades-long aggressiveness on buying wells and fields and selling the stuff to other guys. Gasoline is a very low margin commodity.

Read what RendeR said again. Besides electronic goods, can you name any other necessary commodity that has gone down in price in regards to inflation?? Gas in $1.69 here and have been for a month. That's less per gallon than I was paying last year at this time.

The short term answer if you are that concerned about gas prices is to lobby for domestic production instead of on OPEC. Alternative fuels are still a long ways away for mass consumerism but there are certain people in this country what does not want to use US fields but continuing to rely on the Middle East and the quagmire there.

[JeffNights]

Or, Buy BP guys. Thats our English friends.

[Sun Tzu]

$1.97 was the cheapest I've seen it here in Phoenix.

[Taur]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

I hate to tell you this; but it is their gas and they can sell how much of it they want at what price they want. We simply should not buy it, as you have pointed out. Unless you want the U.S. to invade those countries too. (By the way, that last part was simply a joke).

Joke aside; Could some please tell me where the hell all that Iraqi oil is?

[yabanci]

Try running your idea by Exxon-Mobil.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by stevew

2 something for a gallon of gas? That is crazy, and I hear its gonna get *more* expensive.

For what it's worth, of the, I think, $2.19/gallon I paid the last time I filled up (southern California), something like 43c/gallon was strictly state and federal excise taxes, so in terms of what the oil companies are actually getting, it's closer to $1.75/gallon. Still a hell of a lot more than I'd like to pay, but let's be honest here - it's not just the big, bad, oil companies lined up for the anal raping. Big Brother wants their turn, too.

[finkenst]

Originally Posted by Taur

Joke aside; Could some please tell me where the hell all that Iraqi oil is?

in the ground.

isn't one of the reasons for such high gasoline prices the lack of refining facilities in the US?

[Ryan S]

It cost me $56.70 to fill up my car today.

Right now I am driving a 1.4 which gives me about 45-50 mpg.

[finkenst]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

It cost me $56.70 to fill up my car today.

Right now I am driving a 1.4 which gives me about 45-50 mpg.

what a 1.4? also, how big is the gas tank?

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by finkenst

what a 1.4? also, how big is the gas tank?

The Engine is a 1.4 liter. The Car is a VW.

I think the tank is around 10 gallons.

[Sun Tzu]

I drive a 5.2, therefore my gas mileage is around 12 mpg.

Damn you.

[BigJohn&TheLions]

I don't drive. I live in NYC. I pay $80 a month to commute. No maitenance fees. No insurance premiums. It's great! And I'm not funding the bastards who want to kill us all either!

Let's see, what uses oil that is sold tro us by terrorists?

Airplanes
Cars
Tractor-Trailors
Car Racing
All kinds of things that people in this country love and won't get rid of.

Funny, where's the leadership in this nation to tell us we need to eliminate usage of fossil fuels. Or even limit the usage. Oh, I forgot. We're supposed to go out and buy a gas-guzzling SUV, that's being patriotic!

[-Mojo Jojo-]

Originally Posted by finkenst

in the ground.

isn't one of the reasons for such high gasoline prices the lack of refining facilities in the US?

Interesting you should say that.. I just got this week's Business Week in the mail today and it includes an article on this (here's a link, but subscription is required). They mention, as Samuelson said, that OPEC has been doing a better job of production control than previously and that this has contributed to high prices. However, they also say that the refining business has become very consolidated and not very competitive. In conjunction with high costs of building new plants (around $2b), in part due to pollution controls, this has caused refiners to stop building plants, which benefits them by driving up prices. A number of senators are apparently investigating the industry for anti-competitive practices.

[yabanci]

Originally Posted by Taur

Joke aside; Could some please tell me where the hell all that Iraqi oil is?

Here is a map of Iraqi oilfields, pipelines, refineries and terminals, as well as two charts detailing Iraqi oil and gas projects, and “Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts.” http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_PR.shtml

The documents, dated March 2001, were obtained by the conservative group Judicial Watch as part of their effort to expose the secret Cheney Energy Task Force.

[Greyroofoo]

Over 2 bucks a gallon? In toledo i paid $1.55 just a few hours ago.

Gotta Remember the Opec oil supplies aren't unlimited, someday the oil will run out, so what will the middle east export then? Therefore i'd say it is wise to strecth their supplies a little bit until they have an answer to that question

[bbor]

I wish i could get gas for 2 bucks a gallon.We pay 3 bucks a gallon in Canada,and *supposedly* if you listen to the gas companies everything except 30 cents or so a gallon go to taxes.

Bah....don't get me started.......Banks are even bigger F'N crooks....charging me to take out my money and deposit my money......then making money off my money....Plus charging 17% interest on a credit card???

[fhasumi]

We'll never develop other sources for energy or improve the use of renewable energy sources as long as the oil-tycoons have Bush and Co. directly in their pockets.

Seriously, though. I used to be pro-Bush.

[Buccaneer]

As Sack alluded to, you HAVE to figure in the exhorbant taxes you pay per gallon. I thought California was a lot higher than 43 cents/gallon. Isn't some states as high as 70-80 cents?

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by fhasumi

We'll never develop other sources for energy or improve the use of renewable energy sources as long as the oil-tycoons have Bush and Co. directly in their pockets.

Seriously, though. I used to be pro-Bush.

The "oil tycoons" have always had the politicans - on both sides - in their pockets, don't think otherwise. Exxon made just as much money under Clinton as under Bush.

Besides, we want it that way: 1) we want to pay as little as possible gas (we are, compared to inflation) and 2) we still want to drive vehicles with low gas mileage. So who's really the blame?

[Peregrine]

We'll never develop other sources for energy or improve the use of renewable energy sources as long as the oil-tycoons have Bush and Co. directly in their pockets

Here's the info you're looking for:

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.asp?Ind=E01

[Peregrine]

As Sack alluded to, you HAVE to figure in the exhorbant taxes you pay per gallon. I thought California was a lot higher than 43 cents/gallon. Isn't some states as high as 70-80 cents?

Gas taxes by state. Wisconsin is the highest? Who knew?

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp

[Peregrine]

I can't speak to OPEC, but I know the last couple of years, Exxon-Mobil has turned profits of 2 BILLION DOLLARS PER QUARTER. Who's screwing who?

Not me, I'm a XOM investor!

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Gas taxes by state. Wisconsin is the highest? Who knew?

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp

That's just state gas taxes, my man. There's also a federal tax that's uniform across the nation that you gotta add to that. Something like 18.4c/gallon. According to that list, that means California drivers get to pay 36.4c/gallon. Less than I projected, but I was going off the top of my head, and frankly, I'd rather be estimating too much than too little.

That means Wisconsin gets the dubious pleasure of paying 49.5c/gallon just in state/federal gas taxes.

Then, on top of that, California has various restrictions on gasoline production that drives up the cost as well. More stringent emissions standards or somesuch, so refining that particular grade of gasoline is more expensive. I don't know how many other states have to deal with that, but I'm starting to doubt I'll ever see gas prices back down around $1.30 in California, where they were when I first started driving.

[Peregrine]

Yes, Sack, it mentions the 18.4 federal tax right below the list of states. North Carolina has fairly high taxes too. Hopefully they won't increase the federal gas tax, as was discussed during the recent Congressional debate over the transportation bill.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Not me, I'm a XOM investor!

I'm sure my mom still has stock in her 401k from before they laid her and everyone else off to appease stockholders.

SI

[Peregrine]

I know the feeling sterling, same stuff is going on with my company. I really do despise how companies care only about short-term results for shareholders, so they go with quick fixes like layoffs. But it's not going to stop me from investing my money in companies I view as solid ones.