OT: Another Texas Hold 'Em Puzzle

[primelord]

Standard Disclaimer: I did not create this puzzle. I am re-posting it for your enjoyment. If you have seen this puzzle elsewhere please give the people who haven't a chance to answer.

Ok here is the situation. You are sitting in a regular 10 handed Texas Hold 'Em game. All 10 players have stayed in to see the flop. The puzzle is to come up with a flop and hole cards for yourself and each of your 9 opponents. The goal is to come up with a hand where you are the favorite heads up after the flop against any of the other hands, but against the field only have 1 out to win if everyone stays in to the river. (I hope I explained that correctly).

Here is an example of an answer (an incorrect one of course):

Flop: As Ac Ad
Hero: Ah Ks
Opponent1: Kd Kc
Opponent2: Kh Qd
Opponent3: Qh Qs
Opponent4: Qc Jd
Opponent5: Jh Js
Opponent6: Jc 10d
Opponent7: 10h 10s
Opponent8: 10c 9d
Opponent9: 9s 9c

Note: I know of one correct answer, but there may be more than one correct answer to this problem.

[SirFozzie]

*head explodes*

[SirFozzie]

Ok.. got one.

Pocket AA

Flop AKK

Player 1: KK
Player 2: QQ
Player 3: 87
Player 4: J10
Player 5: 95
Player 6: JJ
Player 7: 88
Player 8: 55
Player 9: 99

[albionmoonlight]

No way I am solving this, but maybe one thing about which to think would be suiting. If your cards are suited Ks, Xs and someone else has As, xS, then you don't have the flush out against the table, but may still be favored against that person heads up. (for instance, If you are KQ and he is A7).

[albionmoonlight]

In Sir F's example, isn't KKKKA a favorite heads up against AAAKK?

[primelord]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

*head explodes*

I thought this one might be a little tougher than the last one I posted

[cthomer5000]

SirFozzie is right *pre-flop*, but the puzzle specifically includes the flop, so it's no good.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

In Sir F's example, isn't KKKKA a favorite heads up against AAAKK?

when he says "heads up" I thought he meant pre-flop.

Pre-Flop, he leads everybody.
Post-Flop, needs the Final Ace (ie, One Out)

[primelord]

You aren't the favorite to win this hand.

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Ok.. got one.

Pocket AA

Flop AKK

Player 1: KK
Player 2: QQ
Player 3: 87
Player 4: J10
Player 5: 95
Player 6: JJ
Player 7: 88
Player 8: 55
Player 9: 99

[primelord]

I have added a clarification that makes it clear this is all post flop.

[Daimyo]

Here's what I came up with.. haven't scrutinized it to make its sure its correct though. The hero is player 1.

1 AA
2 K2
3 Q3
4 JJ
5 TT
6 94
7 88
8 77
9 66
10 55

Flop: KQ9

Either 2, 3, 6 have to be suited and the flop has to be two-suited (so that 2, 3, and/or 6 have a 4-flush)


Below is each card the player who would win if it hit.
A* 1
A* 2,3, or 6 (complete the flush)
K 2
J 3
T 5
9 6
8 7
7 8
6 9
5 10
4 6
3 3
2 2

*because of the four flush only the one ace will help player 1.

[AnalBumCover]

I could imagine this to involve a straight (royal) flush to make one out on the river to win. Maybe Pocket AsAh and a monster flop (Ac Kh Qh) to lead?

[cartman]

hmm.. it seems to me that if in fact all 10 players see the flop, then there are a lot of mediocre players in the game. There aren't enough cards to handle favorable combinations to have 10 players stay in and realistically think they have a chance of winning.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by cartman

hmm.. it seems to me that if in fact all 10 players see the flop, then there are a lot of mediocre players in the game. There aren't enough cards to handle favorable combinations to have 10 players stay in and realistically think they have a chance of winning.

You haven't lived until you've played a 10-handed flop.

[dixieflatline]

I like Daimyo's answer but if the "wrong" ace hits on the turn and the board pairs on the the river our hero then has a full house and would beat the flush holder. That sort of is runner-runner so it isn't truly an "out" so I am not sure how you want to count that.

[primelord]

Originally Posted by cartman

hmm.. it seems to me that if in fact all 10 players see the flop, then there are a lot of mediocre players in the game. There aren't enough cards to handle favorable combinations to have 10 players stay in and realistically think they have a chance of winning.

This isn't meant to be a practical example of a hold 'em hand. It should be treated just as puzzle. You shouldn't expect to ever run into this in real life.

[Daimyo]

Originally Posted by dixieflatline

I like Daimyo's answer but if the "wrong" ace hits on the turn and the board pairs on the the river our hero then has a full house and would beat the flush holder. That sort of is runner-runner so it isn't truly an "out" so I am not sure how you want to count that.

Good catch! I didn't think of that.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

You haven't lived until you've played a 10-handed flop.

If it was with decent competition, then that is true! It'd have to be at least a $5/$10 game before I'd put stock in it.

[SirFozzie]

by one out, he means there's one card out of the remaining 28-29 (20 handed out to players, 3 on the board, and maybe 1 burned card) that will make you win the hand.

I was thinking that the answer probably has to involve flopping a set of Aces, Kings,or Queens, or four to a straight flush or royal flush

[Daimyo]

The other way I was thinking was for the hero to have deuces and everyone else have unpaired overcards... but I think I only got that way to work with 11 players.

[SirFozzie]

dola:
The reason I think that is because it has to be ONE card remaining that wins you the hand with the mortal nuts. Four of a Kind (the reason that it has to be Aces, Kings or Queens is because you have to have the highest hand post flop in this case (ie the favorite), but they have to cover all the other cards.

The Royal/Straight flush is looking more probable, but you have to have one hand that covers the other flushes (IE, if you need a Ah to complete a KhQh (pocket) Jh10h(blank) (board), then you have to be sure that the other Aces don't make you a winner as well (you can probably hide them in other hands, but you would have to make sure that you out kick them, holding the ace yourself.

[primelord]

Daimyo I haven't had a chance to go through your naswer yet, but Fozzie is right. The solution would mean there is only 1 card left in the deck that would win the hand for you.

[Huckleberry]

Me: 99
2: AA
3: KK
4: QQ
5: JJ
6: 66
7: 33
8: 78
9: 45
10: 57

Flop: 9-6-3

I know this one by heart.

[SirFozzie]

(pauses)

Dayum.

*tries to reason through Huckleberry's answer*

(thinks)

*head explodes again*

[primelord]

Huckleberry's answer is correct.

[Radii]

huckleberry, runner runner deuces

[primelord]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

(pauses)

Dayum.

*tries to reason through Huckleberry's answer*

(thinks)

*head explodes again*

Heh well obviously with the top set on the board you have the current nuts. However if any card falls other than the 4th 9 it will make a hand for someone else that beats your set of 9s

[SirFozzie]

Radii: Read Primelord's challenge again.

It asks for the ONE OUT at this moment.

If the turn is a 2, then he has two outs on the River.

But right now, his one and only out is the 4th 9.

[Huckleberry]

Radii -

Well, it seems you are correct. The way I first heard it explained was that there was only one card that would still leave you with the nuts after the turn. The turn card will give you the full house outs possibility.

But I knew what he was talking about, so I still win.

[Radii]

but that was what qualified Daimyo's answer also. Only one card keeps him in the lead on the turn, but many many runner-runner combos allow him to come back and win. If that is the case either something is flawed with Daimyo's answer or there are more than oen possible solution.

[primelord]

Yea actually that threw me for a minute too. SirFozzie has the explination right. (Remember I was only re-posting this. I didn;t create it )

[Radii]

Interesting puzzle regardless, and I must go home before MY head explodes

[primelord]

Just for clarification after re-reading the article the point was that only one card kept you ahead after the turn, but they did mention you could catch running 2's to still win. (Note to self: Always read the whole puzzle before posting. )

[Daimyo]

Isn't that the same as my solution? If the one ace falls, you have the best hand... if anything else falls you don't. If the other ace falls you get a couple more outs on the river (much like if the 2 falls you get another out with huckleberry's answer).

[SirFozzie]

Radii: *nods*.. the reason I said what I did, is how I've seen poker hands described.

When it comes to OUTS.. those are SINGLE cards that will put you in the lead/win you the hand.

For example, Heads Up

7h 7d
vs
9s 9c

(with board)
2 h 4 h 6 d

The 7's have two outs on the turn (the last two 7's). Should the turn be a H, a 5, or a 8, the # of outs increase

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

Isn't that the same as my solution? If the one ace falls, you have the best hand... if anything else falls you don't. If the other ace falls you get a couple more outs on the river (much like if the 2 falls you get another out with huckleberry's answer).

It certainly seems that your answer is correct as well.

[Daimyo]

I guess with my answer you could get the one ace on the turn and still lose to a straight or flush on the river. That's probably what disqualifies it.

[cartman]

My response is only validated by Huckleberry. If hands 8, 9 and 10 stick around after the first 7 have gone in, then, in my book, they aren't very good hold'em players. Those are marginal hands to play in the blind, and only then if there is no one else interested in the flop,

[Daimyo]

Someone doesn't understand the hypothetical nature of puzzles.

[primelord]

Originally Posted by cartman

My response is only validated by Huckleberry. If hands 8, 9 and 10 stick around after the first 7 have gone in, then, in my book, they aren't very good hold'em players. Those are marginal hands to play in the blind, and only then if there is no one else interested in the flop,

Again the point wasn't that you are likely to run into this when you are actually playing hold 'em. How many puzzles have a practical application?

With that being said it really depends on what their position is and what the action infront of them is. If hands 8, 9 and 10 are suited and 10 is on the button. If it has been nothing but limpers to them then they would be awful hold 'em players if they didn't stay in. They all have decent position and hands that play well multi handed and there is little chance of a raise behind them.

Now you can make the argument that with the KK, QQ, and JJ in front of them someone is going to raise and almost certainly re-raise so they would have to call 3 cold and that would certainly make them terrible hold 'em players. But again this wasn't meant to be a practical exercise.

[cartman]

But what if only 1/3 or 2/3 of them raised on the flop

I was thinking of this in terms of an actual hold 'em game, and trying to pin everyone on a hand, and not of an abstract, hypothetical exercise. Of course, past behavior has an immense impact on the reads, and with no prior knowledge of the players, is impossible to read.