Ozzie Guillen Off to a Stellar Start as White Sox Manager

[Ksyrup]

Up 7-3 going into the 9th, so you leave in Cliff Politte. OK.

He walks the first two guys, so you bring in Koch. Check.

Koch gives up a run-scoring double and strikes out the next guy. OK.

Royals PH Matt Stairs for Graffinino, Guillen pulls Koch for Damasco Marte. Huh?

Stairs is PH for with Mendy Lopez. 3-run HR. Game Tied.


Well played, Ozzie. :o

[Ksyrup]

Dola.

Beltran hits 2-run HR. Game Over.



Not quite the managerial debut I'd want to have...

[sterlingice]

HOLY CRAP! Oh my! I've been watching this game and it's awesome!!!

SI

[sterlingice]

What an awesome, awesome comeback! Royals win! Royals win!

SI

[Huckleberry]

Unless I'm thinking of someone else (Lopez), seems like the right move to me.

[Ksyrup]

You'd remove your closer after 2 batters just because Matt Stairs is coming up? I know Mendy Lopez isn't great, but you've not only blown a game you should have won, you've just told your closer in the first game of the season that you have absolutely no confidence in him.

Forget the percentages of Koch pitching to Stairs vs. Marte pitching to Lopez - that does not bode well for his ability to handle the team for the rest of the year. If Koch is going to be successful, he'll have to face guys better than Matt Stairs. Let him pitch, let him fail, then yank his ass. Don't preemptively pull him in the first game of the season, with a 2-run lead.

[k0ruptr]

F**K YOU YOU F**KING PEICE OF S**T ROYALS , F**K YOU OZZIE U PIECE OF S**T MANAGER, F**K ANOTHER S**THOLE SEASON FOR US. man 6 runs in the ninth F**KING BS

[k0ruptr]

AND F**K KOCH. marte blew it for us today, but it was the right move, KOCH IS A PIECE OF S**T. he cant pitch for crap anymore.

[NoMyths]

Same old White Sox.

[Huckleberry]

Maybe he cares more about giving his team the best chance to win than about his players' egos. Just a thought.

Besides, the White Sox would be a hell of a lot better off with Marte as the closer than Koch.

[Vince]

Tell us how you really feel, k0ruptr.

[sterlingice]

Koch was throwing meatballs up there. Then again, no one the White Sox threw out of the pen has much control today.

SI

[k0ruptr]

[k0ruptr]

buehrle pitched solid and what does he get, the suckies relief pitching in the damned league. with this luck, loaiza will be back to his shitty self instead of last years cy young runner up.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

buehrle pitched solid and what does he get, the suckies relief pitching in the damned league. with this luck, loaiza will be back to his shitty self instead of last years cy you

I love Buehrle as a pitcher (try to snag him on most any fantasy team) but he was getting tired, too. I think you had to go to your pen but the choice of guys was questionable especially since it really was the two leadoff walks that came back to bite you in the arse. They always do, but especially in the 9th.

SI

[k0ruptr]

shoulda yanked politte goin into the ninth, thrown koch, then if he got in trouble brought in marte. but politte screwed us with the walks.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Maybe he cares more about giving his team the best chance to win than about his players' egos. Just a thought.

Besides, the White Sox would be a hell of a lot better off with Marte as the closer than Koch.

A. The closer role is 90% about ego. Guys with great stuff have not been able to close effectively, so it's more than just stuff.

B. If that's the case, then Marte should have been the first guy he brought in. You don't bring in your closer and not give him the chance to close the game. If he sucks, let him prove it, and then you don't have a problem anymore - he knows why he's no longer the closer, and you can document his failures. Just like the Phillies did with Mesa last year - he earned the right to be pulled after the first sign of trouble. Koch had not shown that this year, or else, the change should have been made during spring training and implemented in Game 1.

[Vince]

I agree 100% with Ksyrup. Colsing is so much about the mental aspect...Koch can't have been too confident to begin with what with all the rumors about Marte taking his job. Now he's got this as his first outing? I wouldn't be surprised if he gets less than 10 saves all year.

And SI - I have many friends who are A's fans. They'd have you believe that all Koch knows how to throw are meatballs

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Vince

And SI - I have many friends who are A's fans. They'd have you believe that all Koch knows how to throw are meatballs

I had him on a fantasy team one year and I think I agree with them (actually, I got him the year before he blew up).

SI

[LloydLungs]

Harrelson was dead silent for roughly 75 seconds after that game tying dinger. That's long even for him, but I was laughing pretty hard so I might be a few seconds off.

[Young Drachma]

That's why Kenny Williams should've hired a real manager. Like the only manager other than Joe Torre in the past twenty-odd years to manage a club to back-to-back World Series titles. Cito Gaston.

But instead, he wanted someone he could scapegoat if the team don't do well. Oh and it won't.

'course, the saviour of Toronto lost his juice today. Hopefully, he'll get it back. :sniff:

[illinifan999]

Simple reason is because the Cubs are better than the Sox.

[Ragone]

I believe Nelson said it best

"Ha ha"

[k0ruptr]

I believe, taht the royals are vastly overrated, and the twins will suck this year, the chisox should take the div. unless the indians youth gets hot.

[kcchief19]

Feel our strong monkey bowels.

Today's game was a microcosm of the directions of these two ballclubs. The Royals are on the rise with an energetic manager who is more shrewd than most people give him credit for. The ChiSox caved to their fans and went with the popular choice and hired Ozzie, who has zero managing and even limited coaching experience. He got outmanaged today.

Under the Tony Muser regime, we never outmanaged anybody, so we have to gloat a bit.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Under the Tony Muser regime, we never outmanaged anybody, so we have to gloat a bit.

You can't tell me Tony outmanages people routinely. He has the energy that really is unmatched but he still makes tactical mistakes. For instance, today, he never should have left Camp in a second time through the White Sox lineup because they may not have a book on him yet but he's not that great, either.

SI

[TRO]

The house was rocking yesterday. My sunburn is a little easier to deal with after that comeback.

Politte was throwing harder that I knew he could. Koch was throwing 5MPH less than he is known for. If Marte had gotten Mendy out, as he should have (Mendy Freaking Lopez?), everybody would have loved the move. Forcing out Matt Stairs is a good move since we needed a HR and he has hit a few through the years.

Of course, the rest is history, I love you Mendy Lopez.

[Ksyrup]

For the reasons I stated above, it was a bad move, made worse by the outcome. If Guillen expects to get anything of value out of Koch this year, he can't treat him like he did yeterday. Either he's the closer, and his manager has confidence in him, or he should be pitching the 8th inning of games being decided by 8 runs or more. You don't bring him into a save situation and yank him after 2 batters, regardless of the matchups.

I said yesterday, a closer is going to have to pitch to a lot tougher guys than Matt Stairs, so this says that Guillen has absolutely no confidence in him. And that's a bad message to send to your closer on the first day of the season.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

You can't tell me Tony outmanages people routinely. He has the energy that really is unmatched but he still makes tactical mistakes. For instance, today, he never should have left Camp in a second time through the White Sox lineup because they may not have a book on him yet but he's not that great, either.

SI

He was talking about Muser, not Pena.

[TRO]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

For the reasons I stated above, it was a bad move, made worse by the outcome. If Guillen expects to get anything of value out of Koch this year, he can't treat him like he did yeterday. Either he's the closer, and his manager has confidence in him, or he should be pitching the 8th inning of games being decided by 8 runs or more. You don't bring him into a save situation and yank him after 2 batters, regardless of the matchups.

I said yesterday, a closer is going to have to pitch to a lot tougher guys than Matt Stairs, so this says that Guillen has absolutely no confidence in him. And that's a bad message to send to your closer on the first day of the season.

No doubt if Koch is definately going to be the guy, but from the history I knew of Koch (always a bit overrated), I didn't think he was necessarily the #1 option in the pen anyway, especially after seeing his stuff compared to what he threw last year.

[Crapshoot]

Closing is ridiculously overrated- Marte is better as a late innings reliever because he's better than Koch, and I want him in tied or 1 run games with runners on base- not "Saves" where he has to protect a 3 run lead for 1 inning, and get rewarded for it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by k0ruptr

F**K YOU YOU F**KING PEICE OF S**T ROYALS , F**K YOU OZZIE U PIECE OF S**T MANAGER, F**K ANOTHER S**THOLE SEASON FOR US. man 6 runs in the ninth F**KING BS

Wow. 1 game out of a 162? I don't like your chances of making it through the entire season without some sort of serious physical ailment.

[k0ruptr]

lol. aww dont worry about it. although I coulda managed that game better then ozzie.

[Suicane75]

What are the chances of the guy from Japan or Mike Jackson getting a shot to close?

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

You can't tell me Tony outmanages people routinely. He has the energy that really is unmatched but he still makes tactical mistakes. For instance, today, he never should have left Camp in a second time through the White Sox lineup because they may not have a book on him yet but he's not that great, either.

SI

Oh, I agree that Pena isn't top five in game strategy/management, but I think most people think he is only a rah-rah manager when he is a better game manager than people give hime credit for. In this case, he totally outmanaged Guillen. When Guillen pulled Politte, the tying run was still in the on-deck circle. He knew Pena still had Stairs on the bench. If you bring in Koch, you know Stairs is coming up. Guillen thought he was going to get Marte vs. Stairs. But Pena knew that (a) Stairs can't hit lefties; (b) Mendy Lopez is a career .380 hitter vs. the White Sox; (c) Lopez is a better hitter versus lefties; (d) Lopez had faced Marte a lot in winter ball and had fared well. It was a classic chess match and Guilllen just isn't smart enough yet.

Muser never would have figured that out. He would have had Stairs pinch hit for Harvey and try to bunt Randa to third down by four in the bottom of the ninth.

I don't think he necessarily left Camp in too long -- he only pitched two innings and only faced one White Sox hitter twice (Thomas, who he got to hit into an inning-ending FC). Sure, Camp is primarily the situational lefty, but he's also there to eat innings when the starter gets knocked out after five. I think he wanted to build up Camp for later -- that was a tough situation and he came through. Pena likes to throw his young pitchers to the fire early -- he did the same thing with Carrasco in the first or second game of the season last year.

I also agree with Kysrup that pulling Koch sends a bad message. Chicago's going to need a big season out of him and he's confidence was already reeling. It's got to be even lower now.

[Buccaneer]

k0ruptr's profile

Birthday: April 9, 84

Biography: Entering the Air Force.

Location: Hilo, Hawaii

Interests: Sports, games, loose women.

Occupation: Bum

Great, just what we need more of in the Air Force. Good thing you're not smart enough to come here to the Air Force Academy.

[Ksyrup]

Hawaiians or bums?

[Buccaneer]

Interest in loose women.

[Ksyrup]

A lot of loose women at the Academy?

[Buccaneer]

No, too many unprincipled, undisciplined, unintelligent little boys thinking they can bully women.

[Ksyrup]

I thought the idea of a "loose" woman is that you don't need to do much bullying.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Great, just what we need more of in the Air Force. Good thing you're not smart enough to come here to the Air Force Academy.

I visited there when I was looking around at colleges. That chapel is absolutely gorgeous.

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I don't think he necessarily left Camp in too long -- he only pitched two innings and only faced one White Sox hitter twice (Thomas, who he got to hit into an inning-ending FC). Sure, Camp is primarily the situational lefty, but he's also there to eat innings when the starter gets knocked out after five. I think he wanted to build up Camp for later -- that was a tough situation and he came through. Pena likes to throw his young pitchers to the fire early -- he did the same thing with Carrasco in the first or second game of the season last year.

I agree with most of what you said here (innings eater, building him up for later in the season like Carrasco last season, etc) but I think he's young, doesn't have great stuff so he has to rely on fooling guys and the White Sox had seen too much of him. Of course, it's nitpicking but I was just using it as an example to illustrate their statement.

Don't get me wrong- I love that KC has him and he was the perfect hire at the perfect time. I know I was calling for Showalter at the time and I'm 100% glad they went another direction. He's not necessarily the best "x's and o's" guy but he fits what the team needs.

SI

[TRO]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Sure, Camp is primarily the situational lefty,

Um, no he's not. He's right handed.

[k0ruptr]

yikes, i come back here and see you guys picking apart my profile. oh and btw, I can't enter the air force now due to scoliosis. I just got the news and am fucking pissed.