Cincy and Denver swap picks and...

Julio Riddols · 04-09-2004, 10:56 AM

Cincinnati gets Deltha O'neal, Denvers pick at 24, and a 4th rounder from denver as well.. This is HUGE for Cincinnati in my opinion.. Once a deal for Dillon gets done, this should be a fine season.

rkmsuf · 04-09-2004, 10:57 AM

O'Neal is a lousy player...

Julio Riddols · 04-09-2004, 11:01 AM

He has 15 interceptions in 4 seasons and has made a pro bowl.. He obviously has the talent to be an NFL starting corner. Put him opposite Tory James, who was solid last season, and the Bengals basically gained a first rounder and a fourth rounder out of this trade.

rkmsuf · 04-09-2004, 11:04 AM

Bah, if he can't play for a CB-less Broncos team he is junk. Denver couldn't wait to dump him...

JAG · 04-09-2004, 11:15 AM

Julio, if he is such a great player, why did the Broncos get rid of him for almost nothing?

Nevertheless, he's pretty young and will probably be an upgrade over whoever the Bengals had at CB...and maybe Marvin Lewis will get something out of him. It's not a bad deal at all for Cinci. For Denver, I assume they're targeting some player who they don't feel will make it to 24th overall (and perhaps they intend to move up further)...do they have a need at LB? Maybe they'll take that guy with the initials (can you tell I don't follow college football?

).

rkmsuf · 04-09-2004, 11:17 AM

I think they just wanted him off the books. Otherwise you do this deal on draft day.

Julio Riddols · 04-09-2004, 11:22 AM

If he is even half as good as he is capable of being for Cincinnati then they still got a hell of a deal out of this. I don't care how bad the corners for denver are perceived to be, or what hardships he's had recently, they still got him for essentially nothing because this draft is really deep at a lot of positions. Marvin Lewis is also the type of coach who can make players play at another level... But will the Broncos be trading up further, or are they trying to get a shot at Winslow?

Ksyrup · 04-09-2004, 11:49 AM

From Pasquarelli's article:

"O'Neal started 30 games in 2001-2002 and had 14 interceptions, including nine in 2001. But he lost his starting job last season, starting just six times, and recorded only 22 tackles and one interception. He's the latest example of how poorly Shanahan and the Broncos have evaluated defensive back prospects."

That last comment seems inappropriate here. The guy had a terrific start to his career, but wasn't able to sustain it, for whatever reason. At what point is that the staff's inability to evaluate a prospect, instead of the prospect's inability to sustain a previously-achieved high quality of play?

It's not like he was a complete bust - he played well for a couple of years, then completely fell apart. What does that have to do with the "evaluation of a prospect?" For a year or two, he played up to the level they obviously believed he was capable of playing when they evaluated him.

cthomer5000 · 04-09-2004, 11:53 AM

Also, cornerbacks that have a lot of interceptions get thrown at a lot - that's where the INT's come from.

Why do you suppose he gets thrown at so often?

rkmsuf · 04-09-2004, 11:55 AM

Lenny isn't that strong of a writer

Denver went so far as to bar O'Neal from playing corner. They said he had to be a wideout/kick returner or get out of dodge...

cthomer5000 · 04-09-2004, 12:01 PM

Still, I don't think this is a bad deal for the Bengals. You're only moving down 7 spots, and you get a body and a 4th round pick. If it works out, it'll be a steal.

rkmsuf · 04-09-2004, 12:04 PM

agreed

primelord · 04-09-2004, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Still, I don't think this is a bad deal for the Bengals. You're only moving down 7 spots, and you get a body and a 4th round pick. If it works out, it'll be a steal.

I agree. O'Neal will probably not be much of a stand out at corner for them, but he is a very solid punt returner, has some upside at corner, and the fact that they gained a 4th rounder makes this a pretty good deal.

JAG · 04-09-2004, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I think they just wanted him off the books. Otherwise you do this deal on draft day.

They must have something in mind. They don't NEED to clear him off the books immediately, it doesn't change his cap hit if they traded him now or in a couple of weeks.

If anyone's interested, according to the draft value chart assuming both teams got equal value, the value of O'Neal in this deal was a low 3rd round pick. So he wasn't a complete throw-in, but certainly didn't have the value of a well-respected corner.

JeeberD · 04-09-2004, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

He has 15 interceptions in 4 seasons and has made a pro bowl.. He obviously has the talent to be an NFL starting corner. Put him opposite Tory James, who was solid last season, and the Bengals basically gained a first rounder and a fourth rounder out of this trade.

Heh, that'll be two Bronco cast-off corners starting for the Bengals now...

yabanci · 04-09-2004, 03:17 PM

whether the deal was a good value or not, you are in big trouble if your starting cornerbacks are Tory James and Deltha O'Neil. These guys are nicklebacks at best.

revrew · 04-10-2004, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

From Pasquarelli's article:

"O'Neal started 30 games in 2001-2002 and had 14 interceptions, including nine in 2001. But he lost his starting job last season, starting just six times, and recorded only 22 tackles and one interception. He's the latest example of how poorly Shanahan and the Broncos have evaluated defensive back prospects."

That last comment seems inappropriate here. The guy had a terrific start to his career, but wasn't able to sustain it, for whatever reason. At what point is that the staff's inability to evaluate a prospect, instead of the prospect's inability to sustain a previously-achieved high quality of play?

It's not like he was a complete bust - he played well for a couple of years, then completely fell apart. What does that have to do with the "evaluation of a prospect?" For a year or two, he played up to the level they obviously believed he was capable of playing when they evaluated him.

This is really an accurate statement. The Broncos have drafted 3 first-round CBs in the last 6-8 years. That's nearly half of their first rounders. The three they chose? Tory James, Deltha O'Neal, and Willie Middlebrooks. Both Tory and Deltha proved they were worth maybe second round at best (O'Neal played well some of the time, but he was the highest drafted of the three), and Middlebrooks plays like a 4th or 5th rounder. That's not to say they were busts, or losers, but not worth the first round status the Broncos gave them. The Bronco secondary has been a revolving door of nobodies and dufuses for years. That's why I was so excited to see the Champ Bailey trade. And why Pasq. was probably right on this one.

Pumpy Tudors · 04-10-2004, 12:43 PM

Whoa, what's with all the love for Deltha O'Neal? The guy has been little more than a stiff in the NFL. The Broncos were willing to use Mr. Jimmy Spencer (I like to show some respect to anyone old enough to be a great-grandfather) over him. As mentioned by cthomer5000, O'Neal got thrown at all the time. Why? It's not really that he's a bad cornerback, but he gambles way too much. He got a lot of those interceptions by abandoning coverage in order to jump in front of a pass, and he didn't always have help behind him when he did that. The best way to avoid interceptions from Deltha O'Neal is to overthrow him. He gets burned easily, and he's not a great cover guy when his back is to the quarterback.

It's not a bad trade for the Bengals if they use him properly, but it's not a bad trade for the Broncos either, because O'Neal wasn't going to play in their secondary anymore. As a Denver fan, I love the trade right now. I'll love the trade even more if they can nab a great defensive tackle with the draft pick they got.

Desnudo · 04-10-2004, 02:17 PM

Can't we all just agree that both the Bengals and the Broncos suck?

Pumpy Tudors · 04-10-2004, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Can't we all just agree that both the Bengals and the Broncos suck?

BANNED!

04-09-2004, 10:57 AM	#2
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	O'Neal is a lousy player... __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

04-09-2004, 11:01 AM	#3
Julio Riddols College Prospect Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bryson Shitty, NC	He has 15 interceptions in 4 seasons and has made a pro bowl.. He obviously has the talent to be an NFL starting corner. Put him opposite Tory James, who was solid last season, and the Bengals basically gained a first rounder and a fourth rounder out of this trade. __________________ Recklessly enthused, stubbornly amused. FUCK EA

04-09-2004, 11:04 AM	#4
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Bah, if he can't play for a CB-less Broncos team he is junk. Denver couldn't wait to dump him... __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

04-09-2004, 11:17 AM	#6
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	I think they just wanted him off the books. Otherwise you do this deal on draft day. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

04-09-2004, 11:22 AM	#7
Julio Riddols College Prospect Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bryson Shitty, NC	If he is even half as good as he is capable of being for Cincinnati then they still got a hell of a deal out of this. I don't care how bad the corners for denver are perceived to be, or what hardships he's had recently, they still got him for essentially nothing because this draft is really deep at a lot of positions. Marvin Lewis is also the type of coach who can make players play at another level... But will the Broncos be trading up further, or are they trying to get a shot at Winslow? __________________ Recklessly enthused, stubbornly amused. FUCK EA

04-09-2004, 11:15 AM	#5
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	Julio, if he is such a great player, why did the Broncos get rid of him for almost nothing? Nevertheless, he's pretty young and will probably be an upgrade over whoever the Bengals had at CB...and maybe Marvin Lewis will get something out of him. It's not a bad deal at all for Cinci. For Denver, I assume they're targeting some player who they don't feel will make it to 24th overall (and perhaps they intend to move up further)...do they have a need at LB? Maybe they'll take that guy with the initials (can you tell I don't follow college football? ).

04-09-2004, 11:49 AM	#8
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	From Pasquarelli's article: "O'Neal started 30 games in 2001-2002 and had 14 interceptions, including nine in 2001. But he lost his starting job last season, starting just six times, and recorded only 22 tackles and one interception. He's the latest example of how poorly Shanahan and the Broncos have evaluated defensive back prospects." That last comment seems inappropriate here. The guy had a terrific start to his career, but wasn't able to sustain it, for whatever reason. At what point is that the staff's inability to evaluate a prospect, instead of the prospect's inability to sustain a previously-achieved high quality of play? It's not like he was a complete bust - he played well for a couple of years, then completely fell apart. What does that have to do with the "evaluation of a prospect?" For a year or two, he played up to the level they obviously believed he was capable of playing when they evaluated him. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

04-09-2004, 11:55 AM	#10
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Lenny isn't that strong of a writer Denver went so far as to bar O'Neal from playing corner. They said he had to be a wideout/kick returner or get out of dodge... __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

04-09-2004, 12:04 PM	#12
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	agreed __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

04-09-2004, 03:17 PM	#16
yabanci College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2003	whether the deal was a good value or not, you are in big trouble if your starting cornerbacks are Tory James and Deltha O'Neil. These guys are nicklebacks at best.

04-10-2004, 12:43 PM	#18
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	Whoa, what's with all the love for Deltha O'Neal? The guy has been little more than a stiff in the NFL. The Broncos were willing to use Mr. Jimmy Spencer (I like to show some respect to anyone old enough to be a great-grandfather) over him. As mentioned by cthomer5000, O'Neal got thrown at all the time. Why? It's not really that he's a bad cornerback, but he gambles way too much. He got a lot of those interceptions by abandoning coverage in order to jump in front of a pass, and he didn't always have help behind him when he did that. The best way to avoid interceptions from Deltha O'Neal is to overthrow him. He gets burned easily, and he's not a great cover guy when his back is to the quarterback. It's not a bad trade for the Bengals if they use him properly, but it's not a bad trade for the Broncos either, because O'Neal wasn't going to play in their secondary anymore. As a Denver fan, I love the trade right now. I'll love the trade even more if they can nab a great defensive tackle with the draft pick they got. __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

04-10-2004, 02:17 PM	#19
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	Can't we all just agree that both the Bengals and the Broncos suck?

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