Andy Rooney - Our soldiers in Iraq aren't heroes

[GoldenEagle]

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial...12/1057793.asp

	Our soldiers in Iraq aren't heroes 4/12/2004
	By ANDY ROONEY Most of the reporting from Iraq is about death and destruction. We don't learn much about what our soldiers in Iraq are thinking or doing. There's no Ernie Pyle to tell us, and, if there were, the military would make it difficult or impossible for him to let us know. It would be interesting to have a reporter ask a group of our soldiers in Iraq to answer five questions and see the results: 1. Do you think your country did the right thing sending you into Iraq? 2. Are you doing what America set out to do to make Iraq a democracy, or have we failed so badly that we should pack up and get out before more of you are killed? 3. Do the orders you get handed down from one headquarters to another, all far removed from the fighting, seem sensible, or do you think our highest command is out of touch with the reality of your situation? 4. If you could have a medal or a trip home, which would you take? 5. Are you encouraged by all the talk back home about how brave you are and how everyone supports you? Treating soldiers fighting their war as brave heroes is an old civilian trick designed to keep the soldiers at it. But you can be sure our soldiers in Iraq are not all brave heroes gladly risking their lives for us sitting comfortably back here at home. Our soldiers in Iraq are people, young men and women, and they behave like people - sometimes good and sometimes bad, sometimes brave, sometimes fearful. It's disingenuous of the rest of us to encourage them to fight this war by idolizing them. We pin medals on their chests to keep them going. We speak of them as if they volunteered to risk their lives to save ours, but there isn't much voluntary about what most of them have done. A relatively small number are professional soldiers. During the last few years, when millions of jobs disappeared, many young people, desperate for some income, enlisted in the Army. About 40 percent of our soldiers in Iraq enlisted in the National Guard or the Army Reserve to pick up some extra money and never thought they'd be called on to fight. They want to come home. One indication that not all soldiers in Iraq are happy warriors is the report recently released by the Army showing that 23 of them committed suicide there last year. This is a dismaying figure. If 22 young men and one woman killed themselves because they couldn't take it, think how many more are desperately unhappy but unwilling to die. We must support our soldiers in Iraq because it's our fault they're risking their lives there. However, we should not bestow the mantle of heroism on all of them for simply being where we sent them. Most are victims, not heroes. America's intentions are honorable. I believe that, and we must find a way of making the rest of the world believe it. We want to do the right thing. We care about the rest of the world. President Bush's intentions were honorable when he took us into Iraq. They were not well thought out but honorable. Bush's determination to make the evidence fit the action he took, which it does not, has made things look worse. We pay lip service to the virtues of openness and honesty, but for some reason, we too often act as though there was a better way of handling a bad situation than by being absolutely open and honest.

I am disgusted by this man's opinion. I am doubting very seriously Andy Rooney knows anything about being a solider in this war. Of course, neither do I, but I do not go around saying soldiers are not heroes. I am not saying the war is wrong or right - but this guy is an idiot.

[stevew]

I was gonna post this earlier today, but I didnt want to start another flame war.

[druez]

agreed he is an idiot

[Pumpy Tudors]

Leaving my own personal feelings about his comments out of this (as I tend to do with serious non-sports issues), I do find it somewhat refreshing that someone's stating an undoubtedly VERY unpopular opinion. That's pretty rare, and I like to see things changed up from time to time.

[Dutch]

While I respect Andy Rooney's opinion, I must say it is simply out of touch with fair play and I am generally offended by his remarks.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by stevew

I was gonna post this earlier today, but I didnt want to start another flame war.

I do not think it will start a flame war. The idea is not to talk about the war but Rooney's vision of it. I think he believes this is another Vietnam. I do not know, but I just do not see it.

[Samdari]

Andy Rooney used to be a relevant voice expressing his opinion (reputedly witty, on occaission). The relevant part stopped around 1980.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Leaving my own personal feelings about his comments out of this (as I tend to do with serious non-sports issues), I do find it somewhat refreshing that someone's stating an undoubtedly VERY unpopular opinion. That's pretty rare, and I like to see things changed up from time to time.

Whether I agree with him or not, I always enjoy Andy Rooney's perspective on anything. He has a way of stating his point of view both simply and effectively.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

I do not think it will start a flame war. The idea is not to talk about the war but Rooney's vision of it. I think he believes this is another Vietnam. I do not know, but I just do not see it.

I just dont want No Myths to tell on me too.

[dacman]

I actually agree with most of what Andy has to say with one huge exception..the hero part:

There goes my hero
Watch him as he goes
There goes my hero
He's ordinary!

Amen.

[Easy Mac]

yawn.

but this is one of those, hate the game but don't hate the player things mr. rooney.

[wig]

I know a lot of guys over there, and not one of them signed up because he didn't have a job.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by stevew

I just dont want No Myths to tell on me too.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by wig

I know a lot of guys over there, and not one of them signed up because he didn't have a job.

and I know a lot of guys over here, and not one of them smokes crack... doesn't mean people don't do it.

[stevew]

You can roll your eyes all you want, but you are still a tattle tale.

[McSweeny]

Originally Posted by wig

I know a lot of guys over there, and not one of them signed up because he didn't have a job.

so that must mean no one ever joins the army because they need a job

[cthomer5000]

Write it down!

[McSweeny]

dola

i see Easy beat me too it

[wig]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

and I know a lot of guys over here, and not one of them smokes crack... doesn't mean people don't do it.

Rooney wasn't trying to make the point that soldiers smoke crack. He was making the point that they were soldiers because they couldn't find jobs.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by wig

Rooney wasn't trying to make the point that soldiers smoke crack. He was making the point that they were soldiers because they couldn't find jobs.

Does Rooney ever make a point?

[wig]

Originally Posted by stevew

Does Rooney ever make a point?

That's a good point.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by stevew

You can roll your eyes all you want, but you are still a tattle tale.

And you're still a dickwad. I guess we'll just have to be content with ourselves.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

And you're still a dickwad. I guess we'll just have to be content with ourselves.

Thanks for your support.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

And you're still a dickwad. I guess we'll just have to be content with ourselves.

Is this the point where Im supposed to PM someone cause Im being harassed? Or should I wait?

[Telle]

Well he's right, they're not heros. Our dear president made sure of that. Because he declared the offensive over, soldiers are not eligable for commendations for their acts of heroism. There'll be no congressional medals of honor for these boys and girls... nope, no matter how many of give up their lives or perform amazing feats above-and-beyond-the-call, they're simply peace-keepers.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by stevew

Is this the point where Im supposed to PM someone cause Im being harassed? Or should I wait?

If you want to be a tattle-tale, go ahead.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

If you want to be a tattle-tale, go ahead.

Nah, Im not gonna stoop to No Myths level.

[NoMyths]

Don't know who you are, stevew--probably just an alias for someone else, if I'm not mistaken--but you should cut out the third grade act. Reporting trolls to the moderator is encouraged around these parts. And I'd encourage you to do so--one look at these threads and SkyDog will pretty easily be able to see who is baiting who.

[wig]

You did call him a dickwad.

[Leonidas]

So things are so bad that the AF is looking at cutting down on people because far more people re-enlisted when stop loss was lifted last year than they projected.

And the 82nd ABN has reenlisted some 90% of it's troops eligible who just came back from Iraq. Yep, morale is so bad in the military people or reenlisting in record numbers. I'd say Rooney has this pegged just right.

[wig]

This article is the Rooney version of exposing your breast at the Superbowl.

[wig]

"It was an editorial malfunction"

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by wig

You did call him a dickwad.

Ah, so it's merely one of wig's friends. What a surprise. Though I guess it was tipped off when he mentioned you being reported to SkyDog for trolling, being as how that wasn't exactly public knowledge.

If I haven't been obvious enough about it wig (and your friends and aliases, whomever they be): knock it off.

[stevew]

This is just a desperate attempt for Rooney to appear relevant.

[wig]

Maybe he has a CD coming out soon.

[Chubby]

How is a soldier who kills himself in Iraq a hero?

[wig]

Originally Posted by Chubby

How is a soldier who kills himself in Iraq a hero?

Who said he was?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Chubby

How is a soldier who kills himself in Iraq a hero?

Depends what you are trying to say here. Are you talking about someone killed in action, or are you talking about something different?

[wig]

I think he's trying to argue a point that nobody made.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by stevew

Depends what you are trying to say here. Are you talking about someone killed in action, or are you talking about something different?

I'm talking about those 23 soldiers that took their own lives.

People are railing on Rooney for saying the soliders aren't heroes. Well, they aren't. Heroes are people who do heroic things, not people who simply perform their job.

A lot of those soldiers don't want to be there for whatever reason. A friend of mine was told he had to go back to afgan even tho it hadn't been a year since he got back (I think he's in reserves or something) so he basically told them to fuck off and he didn't go back over there.

Some of the soldiers over there ARE heroes, not all of them. Once again the idea of "disagreeing is unamerican" (like having our liberties taken away) rears it's ugly head...

[wig]

Yeah, there are a lot of dipshit reserve soldiers.

This is one reason why I hate the idea of using reserves as front-line troops.

[Runtheball]

I think Rooney's comments were right on.
What surprises me is that so many here are offended by his point of view, and would resort to personal attacks on him simply because his ideas don't fit with their "black and white" view of the world.
The word "hero" has lost all meaning in our country today. Forget the guy that performs acts of bravery above and beyond the call of duty. Heck, let's just consider every one of them to be a hero...even the ones that never saw combat.

[wig]

Rooney is an idiot, no matter what his rant is about this time.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

So things are so bad that the AF is looking at cutting down on people because far more people re-enlisted when stop loss was lifted last year than they projected.

See, that could be for a lot of reasons. I mean, I doubt its totally because all of those people went over there and got this feeling that "I love this stuff!" and re-upped.

I think the fact that the Air Force increased promotion rates for E-5 and E-6 to higher levels than we'd seen in recent memory helped a lot of people stay. That and a lot of people don't have a real handle on what's happening "on the outside". Like, I know I hear sooo many stories of doom and gloom about how terrible things were on the outside. And I suspect they were for people without a real plan.

It's hard to give up a guaranteed paycheck to go find some job you hate or to just go to college, when you can stay in and work.

I guess the point of all of this, is to say that patriotism is hardly the reason most - especially first-term airmen - stay in. I know a lot of them are lifers from the start. But, all too many are just uncertain about their futures and don't really understand what's at stake and are lulled into staying, especially when I know plenty of commanders were singing the swan song of how wonderful military life is.

Not to be a cynic though, I obviously understand the sacrifice folks are making and respect them tons. I just think its a bit much to say that morale is wonderful, just because people are staying in - no different than saying the folks who sit around the water cooler bitching about the boss they hate, love where they are and wouldn't jump at a better opportunity, if it arose.

[Ben E Lou]

Been out this evening, and it looks like things have calmed down in this thread. Several people have contacted me about this thread, though, and I want y'all to know that I have contacted those who need to be contacted.

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Been out this evening, and it looks like things have calmed down in this thread. Several people have contacted me about this thread, though, and I want y'all to know that I have contacted those who need to be contacted.

I respect your point of view (obviously, you being the head of this forum), but how have things gotten out of control? I understand that we might have some military (or former) military people here, but I don't think its gotten ugly here.

[Ben E Lou]

Not the military talk at all. The personal sniping.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Telle

Well he's right, they're not heros. Our dear president made sure of that. Because he declared the offensive over, soldiers are not eligable for commendations for their acts of heroism. There'll be no congressional medals of honor for these boys and girls... nope, no matter how many of give up their lives or perform amazing feats above-and-beyond-the-call, they're simply peace-keepers.

I am pretty sure that statement is dead wrong. It simply has no basis in reality. Medals of Honor were awarded in Somalia, not as many as I think should have, but the point is that Somalia was a peace keeping/humanitarian action.

[Glengoyne]

Dola,

Just to add that I think Rooney has over extended what seems to have started out as a possibly valid point, but really anyone who dons a uniform and goes into harms way is a hero in my book.

[Bonegavel]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Some of the soldiers over there ARE heroes, not all of them. Once again the idea of "disagreeing is unamerican" (like having our liberties taken away) rears it's ugly head...

I don't think anyone called him unamerican for his opinion. Just an idiot. If you are heading to statements by some these days that you aren't allowed to disagree with this administration or similar banter, nobody here has suggested that rooney not be allowed to make his statements.

I don't understand why some get bothered by somebody getting bothered at somebody elses bothersome remarks. I get the irony, as my remarks are from being bothered by somebody getting bothered at another's botheredness about an initial bothering remark. I'll stop now.