3,000 killed or injured in North Korea

[GrantDawg]

SEOUL (Reuters) - Up to 3,000 people were killed or injured in a huge explosion on Thursday when two goods trains collided in a North Korean station hours after leader Kim Jong-il had passed through, South Korea's YTN television station said. Yonhap news agency also said there were thousands of casualties. Both Yonhap and YTN did not give a breakdown of deaths and injuries.

[GrantDawg]

This story begs the question "how many hours?"

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Noop

Yea I just saw this... smells like Cool In America

You have a larger belief in the CIA capabilities than I do. I would guess (if not a complete accident) an internal coup attempt. Could be another terrorist group (terrorist for democracy?).

[fantastic flying froggies]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

This story begs the question "how many hours?"

9 hours, according to an article on Yahoo.

They obviously don't have very accurate detonators in north Korea...

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by fantastic flying froggies

9 hours, according to an article on Yahoo.

They obviously don't have very accurate detonators in north Korea...

Then I would say accident or a random terrorist attack that came within 9 hours of hitting something even bigger than planned.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

You have a larger belief in the CIA capabilities than I do. I would guess (if not a complete accident) an internal coup attempt. Could be another terrorist group (terrorist for democracy?).

I would hope the CIA would not be willing to kill 3000 North Koreans, seeing as how the purpose would be to save them and not kill them.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

I would hope the CIA would not be willing to kill 3000 North Koreans, seeing as how the purpose would be to save them and not kill them.

I wouldn't think so, either (but there are many that would disagree with both of us). But even if they were, I would question there ability to do so in an area like North Korea.

[dan_garlick]

I live in South Korea as well as working here for the Korea government- IT/MIS(BTW-I am an american).I doubt from what I know about korea from living here for ten years thjat this wasn't a external attack especia;lly terrorists.First, why would terrorist bomb the people who are selling them nuke technology as well as short/medium range Frog Missiles.And a attack from the CIA directly or indirectly is unlikely.This is not your grandfathers Korea anymore.If you haven't heard South Korea is quickly swinging leftist(socialist).Asfar as what I have seen of the South Korean construction standards not to even speak of NORTH KOREA'S THIS WAS ALMOST SURELY A ACCIDENT.

[GrantDawg]

If this was a terrorist attack, I'm not suspecting Al-queda type terrorist. I would suspect (and I'm speculating of course) an internal, "freedom" type group.

[dan_garlick]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

If this was a terrorist attack, I'm not suspecting Al-queda type terrorist. I would suspect (and I'm speculating of course) an internal, "freedom" type group.

Any kind of grassroots or or otherwise type of movement/organization would almost certainly not have a chance of existing in the North.The NORK's Government is in total control of oppressing the people there.The people in North Korea haven't the time or energy for organized resistance, unfortunately they are too busy trying to find food to survive.

[sachmo71]

Sign of the times.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'm kinda surprised that none of the few theories here so far have even mentioned who I would consider the number one suspect _if_ this was more than an accident.

I'll give you a hint: it's the nation I believe most wants a quiet North Korea (and a quieter North Korean leader).

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm kinda surprised that none of the few theories here so far have even mentioned who I would consider the number one suspect _if_ this was more than an accident.

I'll give you a hint: it's the nation I believe most wants a quiet North Korea (and a quieter North Korean leader).

China? Possible. It was near their border and would be easier for them than any other country.

[rkmsuf]

Myanmar?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

China? Possible. It was near their border and would be easier for them than any other country.

Yep, you got it in one try.

I'm of the opinion that, if/when push comes to shove, the US won't have to lift a finger to make changes in NK, it'll be the China who does it. Kinda like a big kid smacking his annoying little cousin upside the head before somebody else does it.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yep, you got it in one try.

I'm of the opinion that, if/when push comes to shove, the US won't have to lift a finger to make changes in NK, it'll be the China who does it. Kinda like a big kid smacking his annoying little cousin upside the head before somebody else does it.

Good analogy.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yep, you got it in one try.

I'm of the opinion that, if/when push comes to shove, the US won't have to lift a finger to make changes in NK, it'll be the China who does it. Kinda like a big kid smacking his annoying little cousin upside the head before somebody else does it.

FWIW, I think Kim was coming from China at the time, after meeting with the Premier. I'm not sure whether this lends more credibility or less to your theory. I'm not really sure how China feels about Kim. Some reasons for their liking/tolerating of him are that he makes China look better by comparison and there are almost certainly kickbacks on his missile technology development. I don't think they want him gone, because let's be honest, China is all that is propping up Kim right now, and if they wanted him out they could easily do so.

In the end, probably just a tragic accident, although really all of North Korea is a tragic situation right now.

[dan_garlick]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yep, you got it in one try.

I'm of the opinion that, if/when push comes to shove, the US won't have to lift a finger to make changes in NK, it'll be the China who does it. Kinda like a big kid smacking his annoying little cousin upside the head before somebody else does it.

I agree.

[BishopMVP]

Reportedly Cheney told China's leaders during his recent visit that if China couldn't prevent North Korea from arming itself with nuclear weapons, the US would be unable to prevent Taiwan and Japan from arming themselves with nuclear weapons.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Thus the opening shots of The Second Korean War has been fired.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

Thus the opening shots of The Second Korean War has been fired.

I strongly doubt it. I'm pretty certain (and I think our gov't is too) their side has atomic weapons, and I (and Kim) know for damn sure we got a heckuva lot of them. So I'm guessing at least as long as we have troops on the border, it will be like the Cold War. Hundreds of thousands/Millions starving and suffering on the nominally 'socialist' side and hundreds of thousands protesting on this side so that their government will 'appease' the other side. Just replace the Soviet Bloc with NK and NATO with South Korea.

Besides, if the situation escalated toward an actual war, China would quickly step in and slap Kim around. If anyone is crazy enough to just wake up one day and nuke Seoul, it would be Kim, but he hasn't done that so far.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Sorry, Forgot to put an icon at the end.

[Leonidas]

From what I understand the early speculation is Kim's unscheduled train totally screwed up the whole rail schedule on this line so that could have been a factor in leading to the accident. The whole CIA angle is speculative hogwash. Trust me, the CIA only dreams of having enough access in the DPRK to try something like this.

[GrantDawg]

Ends up that what is being reported now is totally different than what was described before. It has gone from two fuel trains colliding at the train terminal (which sounded suspicious to me) to a couple of cars carrying dynamite coming into contact with a power line while being connected in the terminal (sounding a whole lot more like an accident). Of course, neither might be the case because this is North Korea.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Of course, neither might be the case because this is North Korea.

I have no idea about the veracity of this story or the newspaper, but it's certainly interesting. hxxp://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_10.html

Report: Syrians, 'equipment' were in N. Korea train blast


Special to World Tribune.comEAST-ASIA-INTEL.COMSunday, May 16, 2004
Syrian technicians accompanying unknown equipment were killed in the train explosion in North Korea on April 22, according to a report in a Japanese newspaper.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by dan_garlick

I live in South Korea as well as working here for the Korea government- IT/MIS(BTW-I am an american).I doubt from what I know about korea from living here for ten years thjat this wasn't a external attack especia;lly terrorists.First, why would terrorist bomb the people who are selling them nuke technology as well as short/medium range Frog Missiles.And a attack from the CIA directly or indirectly is unlikely.This is not your grandfathers Korea anymore.If you haven't heard South Korea is quickly swinging leftist(socialist).Asfar as what I have seen of the South Korean construction standards not to even speak of NORTH KOREA'S THIS WAS ALMOST SURELY A ACCIDENT.

That name looked familiar. Now I can place you. From an earlier conversation...

Originally Posted by dan_garlick

First, off no disrespect you entitled to your opinion and I will give mine.So from your response I can gather you obviously you served I am curious where and when?BTW .Yes I am a Democrat(when did that become such a bad word?GEEZ) and yes I don't like GW.As far as a huge morale boost sure but as to officers don't give a F about their troops well isn't The President the Commander and Chief of the military and therefore it would also be true he doesn't care so much about what happens to the troops .Also, I am an F-16 Pilot at Osan AB and I consider one of my main responsibilities in combat to help i the troops down below with air support whren appropriate.When troops in IRAQ were asked about there support for the president officially total support was given since they are in the military.However, most also said they don't support Bush or even want to stay in the military.

[BishopMVP]

Nothing to see here, move along.

Originally Posted by hxxp://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_2.html

N. Korean rail explosion foiled missile shipment to Syria

Originally Posted by hxxp://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_2.html

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COMTuesday, May 18, 2004


A North Korean missile shipment to Syria was halted when a train collision in that Asian country destroyed the missile cargo and killed about a dozen Syrian technicians.

U.S. officials confirmed a report in a Japanese daily newspaper that a train explosion on April 22 killed about a dozen Syrian technicians near the Ryongchon province in North Korea. The officials said the technicians were accompanying a train car full of missile components and other equipment from a facility near the Chinese border to a North Korea port.

A U.S. official said North Korean train cargo was also believed to have contained tools for the production of ballistic missiles. North Korea has sold Syria the extended-range Scud C and Scud D missiles, according to reports by Middle East Newsline.

"The way it was supposed work was that the train car full of missiles and components would have arrived at the port and some would have been shipped to Syria while others would have been transported by air," an official said.



Officials said the North Korean shipment to Syria was not meant to have contained chemical or biological weapons. They said foreign rescue crews summoned to the train explosion did not report any chemical contamination.

The explosion was said to have been caused by a collision of two trains. The collision downed an electrical power line, the sparks from which detonated the fuel from the train.

On May 4, the Tokyo-based Sankei Shimbun quoted a military source that reported the death of the Syrian technicians. The newspaper said North Korean military personnel, wearing protective suits, removed the vestiges of the destroyed equipment meant for Syria.

The technicans were representatives of Syria's Center for Scientific Research, which has been cited for helping develop that country's weapons of mass destruction program. The technicians were said to have been trained in North Korea to operate the equipment. Sankei said the bodies of the Syrians were flown home by a Syrian aircraft, which had arrived in Pyongyang to deliver aid supplies. The newspaper said North Korean personnel were also killed in the explosion.