Bye Bye Barry

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1795347

Bonds says '05 might be his final season
NEW YORK -- Barry Bonds insists the swirling steroids scandal doesn't bother him.



"Does it look like it?" the San Francisco slugger asked. "It doesn't faze me at all."



Leading the majors with 10 homers and a .463 batting average, Bonds brushed aside questions Tuesday night about the drug-distribution case in which his personal trainer, Greg Anderson, has been indicted.



"There isn't anybody investigating me, as far as I know," Bonds said. "I ain't being investigated."



At one point, Bonds even lifted his T-shirt to reveal his stomach.



"Do I look like I got ripped abs?" he said.



Bonds said he wasn't worried about an asterisk tarnishing his accomplishments: his six MVP awards and 668 career home runs.



"My records aren't going anywhere," he said, "I'll be fine, trust me."



Anderson is one of four men charged in an alleged ring involving the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative. All four have pleaded not guilty and no athlete has been charged.



Bonds repeatedly has denied using illegal steroids. There is one supplement he does take.



Pointing to the top of his locker, he said, "I have creatine right up here."



Out of the starting lineup against the New York Mets with a sinus infection, Bonds spent 45 minutes at his locker talking about possibly retiring after the 2005 season, his future and George Steinbrenner.



Sniffling to suppress his cold, he laughed at times and bristled at others, particularly when pressed about BALCO and Anderson.



"He'll always be a friend of mine. Always. We grew up together," Bonds said.



More than halfway through the session, Bonds cackled and added this caveat: "Half the stuff I say, I don't believe."



Bonds entered the three-game series at Shea Stadium only 88 homers from breaking Hank Aaron's record of 755. But he claimed he wanted to leave the game after next season, regardless where he stands on the home-run list.



"I want to leave. I want to do something else," he said.



Bonds declined to say exactly what else he'd like to do. But as he approaches 40 this July, he said he'd like to spend more time watching his two daughters and one son grow up.



At his current pace, Bonds might break Aaron's mark before next season is over. But if he's close, Bonds said he likely would not be tempted to return.



"Probably not," he said. "Don't need to."



Bonds is signed through the 2006 season. But if he does not reach 500 plate appearances next season, the Giants can void the final year of his contract -- he's set to make $18 million in 2006.



If Bonds reaches 1,500 plate appearances combined from 2003 to 2005, including 400 or more in 2005, the Giants lose their right to void the deal. Despite that, Bonds would not gain the right to walk away from his contract.



"I don't try to predict the future," he said.



Bonds said he'd be amenable to becoming a designated hitter someday, meaning a shift to the American League.



"DH is fine for me," he said, adding he'd want to do it for a California team.



So does he see any chance of joining Steinbrenner's collection of stars at Yankee Stadium?



"If George wanted me, he would've paid for me a long, long time ago," he said. "I'm a bad influence for George, I guess."



After he's done playing, Bonds said he wants to stay involved in baseball, on his own terms.



"I'll probably go help college kids," he said. "I don't want to coach, I just want to help."



For now, though, Bonds has plenty of games left. And while many people track his home runs, others are wondering whether he could become the first big leaguer to hit .400 since Ted Williams in 1941.



"I've never seen it done. It's too difficult," he said. "It could possibly be done, but it'd take a lot."



Bonds said a lot has changed on and off the field since Williams achieved the feat. Along with more hectic travel schedules, there are different strategies: opponents using more pitchers, plus intentional walks.




Bonds had drawn 44 walks, including 22 intentional passes, in the Giants' first 26 games. He said the game still was fun despite teams taking the bat out of his hands.



"Pick your poison," he said. "You can walk me or see it go."


As for sitting out of the lineup, Bonds noted that some players have been sidelined "four or five" days by such ailments. Sniffling as he talked about his cold, Bonds said he'd been feeling ill for a couple of days.


Jeffrey Hammonds took Bonds' place in left field in the starting lineup at Shea Stadium.


I can see it now. Last day of the 2005 season. Barry Bonds voluntarily takes a all inclusive drug test......and passes! At least he admitted to taking creatine

[MrBug708]

Apparently Bonds doesn't realize that if you take Steroids, you also need to hit the gym to enable them to work....

[stevew]

There is no way in hell he'd retire if he only needed like 20 HR to break the mark. At least come back for a half season or something.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Apparently Bonds doesn't realize that if you take Steroids, you also need to hit the gym to enable them to work....

I'm assuming that you're referring to his statement about his lack of a 6 pack here, and if I'm mistaken, please correct me. Now, judging by your statement, you think Bonds did indeed take steroids. But if, as you say, he didnt hit the gym to make them work, then if in fact he is found to have taken them, would you not agree that none of his records should have an asterisk? I mean, you say he didnt hit the gym, so they obviously weren't able to work. From browsing the MLB thread, I know you're a dodger fan, and I a giants fan, so obviously there will be some bias on both sides, I'm just trying to point out the fallacy of this statement. As for how I feel, I will continue to reserve judgement either way until all the facts are out, but i will concede that the cirumstancial evidence does not bode well for the man. Your statement just seemed to inadvertantly contradict the argument that he did take steroids, so it caught my eye. That is all.

[Sharpieman]

It continues to baffle me how an overwhelming majority of people are anti-Bonds. And not only that, they would like to see him get caught using roids. I don't know what its all about. Sammy Sosa using a corked bat AND he's much larger than Bonds and no one says anything. Mark McFraud who took now illegal supplements doesn't have an * next to his numbers, does he?

[stevew]

I think a case could be made for all kinds of asterisks. Ruth and Cobb played in an era where qualified players werent allowed to play due to their skin color.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

It continues to baffle me how an overwhelming majority of people are anti-Bonds. And not only that, they would like to see him get caught using roids. I don't know what its all about. Sammy Sosa using a corked bat AND he's much larger than Bonds and no one says anything. Mark McFraud who took now illegal supplements doesn't have an * next to his numbers, does he?

Ah, your true colors show Sharpieman. Spoken like a true Giants fan *ducks the incoming batteries*

Tell me, what would you think of Bonds if he did use Steroids? I'm a diehard Laker fan, but if Kobe did it, I wouldn't root for him again.

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

It continues to baffle me how an overwhelming majority of people are anti-Bonds. And not only that, they would like to see him get caught using roids. I don't know what its all about. Sammy Sosa using a corked bat AND he's much larger than Bonds and no one says anything. Mark McFraud who took now illegal supplements doesn't have an * next to his numbers, does he?

Actually there have been countless accusations that Sammy is juiced up too. It just has died down some because he isn't the one with ties to a lab that is being investigated for giving out steroids to pro athletes.

There is no question that a lot of people have always just hated Bonds and pile on with the steroids talk because they don't like him. Like several people said in the other Barry thread I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt ubtil something is proven. However as the circumstantial evidence continues to grow I can certainly understand why people have their doubts.

[korme]

Bonds also said "I never believe anything I say" or something like that, cause he changes his mind so much, so let's not 2005 to him

[Cecil Fielder]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

so let's not 2005 to him

what you tryin to say short-stuff?

[korme]

so lets not hold 2005 against him or somethin, hell i dunno i was multitasking

[Vince]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Ah, your true colors show Sharpieman. Spoken like a true Giants fan *ducks the incoming batteries*

Tell me, what would you think of Bonds if he did use Steroids? I'm a diehard Laker fan, but if Kobe did it, I wouldn't root for him again.

Heh, ducked the question pretty well there, didn't you?

Personally, I'd hate it if it came out that Bonds used steroids. I like Barry Bonds. I think he's a real person. He's not a model citizen, and I wish he was a bit more of a nice guy, but he's not evil. Hell, compared to Dean Houston, he's the friggin pope (). Either way, circumstantial evidence is there, so it's hard to fault people for assuming. It still annoys me that people firmly believe that he has done it, but that's their prerogative.

EDIT - to add the first smiley...supposed to be a friendly jab.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

It continues to baffle me how an overwhelming majority of people are anti-Bonds. And not only that, they would like to see him get caught using roids. I don't know what its all about. Sammy Sosa using a corked bat AND he's much larger than Bonds and no one says anything. Mark McFraud who took now illegal supplements doesn't have an * next to his numbers, does he?

To put it Bluntly- he's not a yes-man, he doesnt kiss the ass of joe "dumbass" fan, and he's portrayed as an angry black man- never sells well.

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

Sammy Sosa using a corked bat AND he's much larger than Bonds and no one says anything. Mark McFraud who took now illegal supplements doesn't have an * next to his numbers, does he?

I missed the McGwire jab when I first responded to your post. I don't understand why you would say something like that when you are trying to make a point that people shouldn't be piling on Barry. Yes McGwire took a supplement that is now banned, but it was perfectly legal when he was playing. So there shouldn't be any question of whether or not an * should be placed next to his numbers. Calling him McFraud seems to insinuate that maybe he was doing more than taking andro. If that is what you are doing than your argument for why people shouldn't be accusing Barry loses a lot of credibility.

How does attacking McGwire or Sosa help your stance? Are you saying instead of accusing Barry with no proof we should instead be calling out all players without proof? I think the point should be Barry is innocent until proven guilty, not we should be accusing McGwire and Sosa as well.

[Vince]

Well said primelord. Good point, that I forgot to address in my post. Or perhaps I just feel that there aren't enough Giants fans and I can't bring myself to point out flaws in another one's logic...

[stevew]

I move that we no longer mention B---y B---s by name any more on this board and instead refer to him as LF Giants. That way we won't get sued

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Aadik

To put it Bluntly- he's not a yes-man, he doesnt kiss the ass of joe "dumbass" fan, and he's portrayed as an angry black man- never sells well.

I don't believe an angry anything actually sells well but if it makes you feel better to interject race into it, then by all means, be my guest.

I'm not anti Bonds by any means myself. I was a big fan of his father and rooted for Barry to do well back when I was interested in baseball. I've read some interviews with him and he doesn't come off as particularly angry to me but he has done and said some stuff that just doesn't set well with folks.

He has every right to alienate these fans and they have every right to be alienated, joe "dumbass" or not.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Axxon

I don't believe an angry anything actually sells well but if it makes you feel better to interject race into it, then by all means, be my guest.

I'm not anti Bonds by any means myself. I was a big fan of his father and rooted for Barry to do well back when I was interested in baseball. I've read some interviews with him and he doesn't come off as particularly angry to me but he has done and said some stuff that just doesn't set well with folks.

He has every right to alienate these fans and they have every right to be alienated, joe "dumbass" or not.

Let me explain my statement a little better. I think Bonds comes across (in part because of the likes of SI, who seem to have a vendetta against him since that 94 cover) as very angry to some, and that many a sportswriter has jumped on this bandwagon. How many stories have you read about what a horrible human being he is ? I think among a certain limited segment, that fact that he is black only adds to the disdain. While I don't think this is the majority or even a significant minority, I think it certainly reflects some of what I read out there. Someone like Peter King of SI strikes me as this kind of guy who once asked whether he was too white or middle aged to accept what was going on in the NFL (he was on one of his Terrell Owens vendettas). That being said, Im not a fan of the race card, and I didn't mean to quote unquote "play" it- and I apologize for that.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Aadik

Let me explain my statement a little better. I think Bonds comes across (in part because of the likes of SI, who seem to have a vendetta against him since that 94 cover) as very angry to some, and that many a sportswriter has jumped on this bandwagon. How many stories have you read about what a horrible human being he is ? I think among a certain limited segment, that fact that he is black only adds to the disdain. While I don't think this is the majority or even a significant minority, I think it certainly reflects some of what I read out there. Someone like Peter King of SI strikes me as this kind of guy who once asked whether he was too white or middle aged to accept what was going on in the NFL (he was on one of his Terrell Owens vendettas). That being said, Im not a fan of the race card, and I didn't mean to quote unquote "play" it- and I apologize for that.

Can't disagree with your elaboration one bit. I see where you were coming from. Makes a lot of sense to me.

[Sharpieman]

Originally Posted by primelord

I missed the McGwire jab when I first responded to your post. I don't understand why you would say something like that when you are trying to make a point that people shouldn't be piling on Barry. Yes McGwire took a supplement that is now banned, but it was perfectly legal when he was playing. So there shouldn't be any question of whether or not an * should be placed next to his numbers. Calling him McFraud seems to insinuate that maybe he was doing more than taking andro. If that is what you are doing than your argument for why people shouldn't be accusing Barry loses a lot of credibility.

How does attacking McGwire or Sosa help your stance? Are you saying instead of accusing Barry with no proof we should instead be calling out all players without proof? I think the point should be Barry is innocent until proven guilty, not we should be accusing McGwire and Sosa as well.

I was merely pointing to the fact the McGwire and Sosa aren't attacked so much as Bonds is, and its unfair. And yes, I do think McGwire should have an * next to his records even though the drug he took wasn't illegal at that point. Why? Because we know that that drug gave him an unfair advantage. And to address that dodgers fan out there, if Barry took steroids then I would ask for an * too and I would hate him for it because he's a lying cheater.

Baseball needs to be saved from this scandal and they need to reform their laws in order to weed out the players who cheat.

[Sharpieman]

To answer your question "Are you saying instead of accusing Barry with no proof we should instead be calling out all players without proof?
You made one mistake here, there is proof. Proof about a few prominent players out there included in the Balco case, Bonds, Giambi, Sheff. Why not attack these players? If you suspect someone did something, then voice that. Athletes have it WAY too easy.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

I was merely pointing to the fact the McGwire and Sosa aren't attacked so much as Bonds is, and its unfair. And yes, I do think McGwire should have an * next to his records even though the drug he took wasn't illegal at that point. Why? Because we know that that drug gave him an unfair advantage. And to address that dodgers fan out there, if Barry took steroids then I would ask for an * too and I would hate him for it because he's a lying cheater.

Baseball needs to be saved from this scandal and they need to reform their laws in order to weed out the players who cheat.

That is a ridiculous arguement to make- retroactive laws ? Do you realize the sheer logical fallacies with that concept ?

[JasonC23]

If Bonds was on steroids before the new collective bargaining agreement was in place, he was not breaking any MLB rules, because there was no rule outlawing steroids from the game.

Just thought I'd mention that.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Apparently Bonds doesn't realize that if you take Steroids, you also need to hit the gym to enable them to work....

Maybe his whole goal was to increase his hat size.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by JasonC23

If Bonds was on steroids before the new collective bargaining agreement was in place, he was not breaking any MLB rules, because there was no rule outlawing steroids from the game.

Just thought I'd mention that.

They are illegal in the US so he would have been breaking the law though. It seems ridiculous that they can't come to an agreement about dealing with something like this in the game.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Maybe his whole goal was to increase his hat size.

Perhaps it was to enhance his personality

[Sharpieman]

Originally Posted by Aadik

That is a ridiculous arguement to make- retroactive laws ? Do you realize the sheer logical fallacies with that concept ?

Well lets say that Bonds is found to be innocent and he doesn't use steroids. What if, in 4,5, 10 years we find out he DID take steroids and somehow he was able to duck the MLB. Should he have an *?

Or even he doesn't take steroids, but he used some other magical drug that made him stronger and we dont make it a law that you can't take that drug until 5 years from now, when Bonds has the biggest record of all in baseball, what then.

I admit I may have taken it too far with retroactive laws, but at least maybe there should be some sort of punishment. Not in the sense that there is an actual *, but a invisible *, like a known fact to the public that those players did something to cheat. Kind of like how Pete Rose has been demonized in the court of public opinion. I just don't want athletes to get away with cheating, thats all.

[MrBug708]

Bonds beat Cal Ripken's consecutive streak, Orel's scoreless streak, or Joltin Joe's hitting streak?

News to me....

[Vince]

Sharpie -

What I think sucks is that there already is an invisible * for many, many people. They have come to the conclusion that he isn't doing it 'the right way,' and for them, his numbers will never mean anything.

[MrBug708]

Now Now Vince, you are implying that they ever did. Bonds is good for one thing. Booing

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

And yes, I do think McGwire should have an * next to his records even though the drug he took wasn't illegal at that point. Why? Because we know that that drug gave him an unfair advantage.

How exactly did taking a legal supplement that wasn't banned by baseball, and thus available for all players to take if they had wanted to do so give McGwire an "unfair advantage"?

[Passacaglia]

What? Barry Sanders is retiring? But he still has a few years left on his contract, and besides, he's so closing to breaking Walter Payton's record! Don't listen to his father -- that guy doesn't know what he's talking about!

[SteelerFan448]

More people don't like Barry Bonds because of his crappy personality rather than the steriod issue. That just adds more fuel to the fire.