Oh Barry, try again

[MrBug708]

"I ain't white. What world are you living in? I live in reality. They'd never let a black man get away with that.''

--Barry Bonds, asked last week about Roger Clemens' travel arrangement with the Astros. Clemens does not travel to Houston road games when he is not slated to pitch.

[Draft Dodger]

maybe if Roger was given the road perks Bonds was given, he'd travel with the team

[sooner333]

Well, maybe if Barry wasn't expected to play everyday, unlike Roger. That was a stupid comment by a player I have great respect for. Granted, The Rocket's travel arragement is pretty ridiculous.

[MrBug708]

Part of Rockets "agreement" to come out of retirement was that he'd be able to hang out with his family if it didn't interfere with his schedule on the team. 6 wins for the Astros says a lot.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

"I ain't white. What world are you living in? I live in reality. They'd never let a black man get away with that.''

--Barry Bonds, asked last week about Roger Clemens' travel arrangement with the Astros. Clemens does not travel to Houston road games when he is not slated to pitch.

Just another example of Bonds being a dumbass.

[sabotai]

Wait a minute...he's bitching because a starting pitcher, who plays once ever 4 or 5 games, is not going on the road for a 3 game series where he is not scheduled to pitch...

See, another example of a black person crying wolf. Everytime something happens, it has to be about race. The only thing that does is cause people to not listen when it actually is about race...

[clintl]

OK, it was kind of a dumb thing to say, but if someone other than Barry had complained about Clemens' treatment, I think most people here would have been all over Clemens instead of the messenger.

[sabotai]

clintl, I doubt it.

[MrBug708]

How do you figure? This isn;t some revelation that just happened yesterday, Roger has been doing that all this year and no one has said anything.

[korme]

star treatment for clemens = sucks

bonds race card = wrong move

[clintl]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

How do you figure? This isn;t some revelation that just happened yesterday, Roger has been doing that all this year and no one has said anything.

Because Clemens is almost, but not quite, as hated as Bonds. He may have been doing it all year, but I didn't know it, and I'll bet that it's not widely known outside of Houston. This is more about people finding reasons to validate their dislike of certain players than anything of actual substance.

[Shepp]

Its just as dumb a statement as when Rush Limbaugh said the media liked Donavan McNabb because he was a black Quarterback(or at least pretty close). I just don't think that Barry will be given his walking papers.

[sabotai]

Hmm, odd seeing as before this I didn't really have a problem with Bond (because I don't pay much attention to baseball). I guess I was trying to validate my dislike of a player that I didn't dislike...

[Draft Dodger]

personally, I dislike Bonds AND Clemens equally. I do not discriminate.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Okay, even though the question had nothing to do with race, there hasn't been any precendent about this particular subject to say that Bonds' comment is out of bounds. Is it fathomable that this might have been a bigger deal if it were a black pitcher, all other things being equal? I think that's what Bonds was getting at, even though I'm not really sure of the relevance.

[Hurst2112]

I wouldn't make Bob Gibson fly with the team if he didn't want to.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Hurst2112

I wouldn't make Bob Gibson fly with the team if he didn't want to.

Nice catch. I wonder what would've happened if Gibson had made such a request.

[cthomer5000]

I don't know. I never heard much complaint about Deion not practicing all week, or flying in by helicopter right before the games and such.

I think any star athelete can get away with this sort of ridiculous crap.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I don't know. I never heard much complaint about Deion not practicing all week, or flying in by helicopter right before the games and such.

I think any star athelete can get away with this sort of ridiculous crap.

Fair enough. I wasn't necessarily defending Barry Bonds' statements. I just wasn't discarding them very quickly. Nice catch on your part, too.

[Buccaneer]

Always remember to use the race card as the trump.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I think I get what Barry's message is, but he was sending it to the wrong people.

[Hurst2112]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Always remember to use the race card as the trump.

werd

[EagleFan]

It's just Bonds trying to draw attention away from his slump.

It's tiresome to see the race card get played at every whim.

This isn;t even a typical circumstance so it's total BS to even attempt to compare it with anything else. Roger was going to retire and part of what he wanted to come back was this agreement.

It's not like it was something that was asked for afterwards, or maybe the team owner called himm in and said "Roger, I just noticed that you're white. How about you just stay home and not have to come with us on road trips that you won't be pitching. Just don't tell those 'other' people about our little deal. (wink wink) Oh, and here's a pair of tickets to a NASCAR race and a hockey game."

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

It's not like it was something that was asked for afterwards, or maybe the team owner called himm in and said "Roger, I just noticed that you're white. How about you just stay home and not have to come with us on road trips that you won't be pitching. Just don't tell those 'other' people about our little deal. (wink wink) Oh, and here's a pair of tickets to a NASCAR race and a hockey game."

I know you're exaggerating, but I don't think that this is what Bonds was getting at.

[EagleFan]

Just what was he getting at? There's nothing to compare it to. It's a completely baseless statement.

It's beyond tiresome seeing some idiot throwing out the race card when there isn't even a situation to merit it. Hell, I could do that too..... I just saw some lottery winners the other day that were white. I bet if they were black, they wouldn't have been given the check..... An ass kissing white guy at work is always gettnig praise from our bosses. I bet if he was black we wouldn't get any praise.... A white guy got promoted to manager. I bet if he were black, he wouldn;t have gotten the job.

Hey, this is kind of easy, let's all join in.

[Pumpy Tudors]

You're not going to get it.

Again, I'm not defending his statements, and I don't necessarily agree with them. There is a message to what he's saying, but it's going to the wrong people. Personally, I don't see the relevance to his message in this case. I just think that there is one, and it's a little more substantial than "he's white, I'm black, so I get the short end of the stick."

[LionsFan10]

What an ass, people like Bonds who think that EVERY decision made in the world is based on skin color makes the rest of the colored people in the world look like big whiners. And then, when something comes along that might actually be race related, people go "there goes those (latinos, blacks, vietnamese) again, whining about race."

Honestly, as much as racist people bug me ... people like Bonds bug me even worse because they do nothing for the black or latino people at all. So what, you hit a baseball for a living, that doesn't make it okay for you to run around sounding like a fuckface. Drop your huge salary and do what Martin Luther King did, then you can talk about race a little.

[Pumpy Tudors]

The draft from all the head-nodding around here is giving me the sniffles.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

You're not going to get it.

Again, I'm not defending his statements, and I don't necessarily agree with them. There is a message to what he's saying, but it's going to the wrong people. Personally, I don't see the relevance to his message in this case. I just think that there is one, and it's a little more substantial than "he's white, I'm black, so I get the short end of the stick."

so please enlighten us oh wise one. what was his message?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Chubby

so please enlighten us oh wise one. what was his message?

You. Are. Not. Going. To. Get. It.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

The draft from all the head-nodding around here is giving me the sniffles.

Instead of all your veiled comments, why don't you at least come out and say what you're attempting to imply. There seems to be some hidden message that Barry mentions that we just don't get, yet you don't seem to want to say anything about it other than how we don't get it. Step up or shut up.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Then I'll shut up. Just passing through.

[EagleFan]

Wow, big surprise there.

[Pumpy Tudors]

If the message cannot be effectively communicated, why bother? This is how I feel about Barry Bonds' statement. He could not communicate it, so there was no point. That's why I don't see the relevance.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

If the message cannot be effectively communicated, why bother? This is how I feel about Barry Bonds' statement. He could not communicate it, so there was no point. That's why I don't see the relevance.

Hence some of us don't see the relevance in your comments. Obviously you can't communicate it either or some other BS reason. It must be some hugely complicated message.

Oh wait, Barry's just a dumbass with no message. See, that wasn't so hard to communicate.

[Pumpy Tudors]

If anything, I do wish to amend some of what I've been saying. I can't speak for Barry Bonds, and for all I know, I may be reading him completely wrong. I'll admit that. I also apologize if I came off as condescending, because I didn't mean to imply that I was better than anyone for reading something more from his comment. If anything, I was probably guilty of stripping away the saturated racial overtone and trying to find something that at least had a little more substance. Maybe there is something more, maybe there isn't. Since I'm not Barry Bonds, I honestly don't know.

As far as trying to explain it to others, well, I don't exactly know how to do that, because it comes from personal experiences. I know people who would say things similar to what he said, and through their experiences, I know where they would be coming from. I don't particularly agree with it, and I think it's a little weak if Barry is trying to equate it with something as trivial as somebody else's travel arrangements.

I guess my point is that people are just as quick to say "race card" as they are of accusing others of using the "race card." In many cases, yes, the "race card" is being played, but in other cases, valid arguments get dismissed. That's the thing that tickles me the wrong way.

Just presenting the surface of another perspective. Yes, I'm clouding it a little bit, but my main point is that not everyone will agree that a mention of race immediately invalidates an argument.

Edit: Spelling

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Hence some of us don't see the relevance in your comments. Obviously you can't communicate it either or some other BS reason. It must be some hugely complicated message.

Oh wait, Barry's just a dumbass with no message. See, that wasn't so hard to communicate.

Understood. Your comments are appreciated.

[miami_fan]

Okay here is what I got from Barry's statement If Pedro Martinez, Dontrelle Willis, Chan Ho Park etc. would have made this request as a part of signing a contract it would have been disallowed or they would have been ripped for it. In Barry's opinion that is because of race. Is this a unique situation? Yes Is it POSSIBLE that race played a factor? None of us know that. Is it possible that some owner will allowed one of these other pitchers or any other player these arrangements today or in the future will tell.

[Chubby]

You didn't say anything and you haven't shut up so which is it going to be? Put up or shut up.

He used the race card. It was a extrememly lame attempt as well. That's all there is to it. You've failed to bring forth anything else to the discussion including this other phantom "message" Barry was trying to get across (according to you).

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Chubby

You didn't say anything and you haven't shut up so which is it going to be? Put up or shut up.

He used the race card. It was a extrememly lame attempt as well. That's all there is to it. You've failed to bring forth anything else to the discussion including this other phantom "message" Barry was trying to get across (according to you).

And I've retracted that Barry was putting forth a message, because I don't know that he was. I've admitted that I made a mistake in attempting to speak for him.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Okay here is what I got from Barry's statement If Pedro Martinez, Dontrelle Willis, Chan Ho Park etc. would have made this request as a part of signing a contract it would have been disallowed or they would have been ripped for it. In Barry's opinion that is because of race. Is this a unique situation? Yes Is it POSSIBLE that race played a factor? None of us know that. Is it possible that some owner will allowed one of these other pitchers or any other player these arrangements today or in the future will tell.

Pedro gets free reign to do what he wanst (at least that's my understanding of it) yet I don't see Barry obitching about him. All suoerstars are coddled even the one's who are purple with green stripes. Barry playing the race card only makes him lok worse.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

And I've retracted that Barry was putting forth a message, because I don't know that he was. I've admitted that I made a mistake in attempting to speak for him.

The mistake was trying to say that there may be a hidden message and then refusing to back it up whatsoever.

Put up or shut up. You chose neither.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Chubby

The mistake was trying to say that there may be a hidden message and then refusing to back it up whatsoever.

Put up or shut up. You chose neither.

To quote John Madden: "You push, you push, you push."

If I remember correctly, in my first response in this thread, I said what I thought Barry was getting at. All other things being equal, would anyone have made a stink about these travel arrangements if a black pitcher had them? It appears to me that Barry thinks the answer is yes. I'm sure that the reporter who mentioned Clemens didn't have race in mind at all, and if this is what Barry Bonds wants to use to try to make a statement about his perceived injustices against black people, he picked the wrong issue. So if he's trying to say that white athletes are treated better, he could probably pick a more defensible issue to stand on. This was not the place to do it. That's why I said that I was seeing a message (the message being that white athletes get better treatment from owners), but I didn't see the relevance. Roger Clemens' travel arrangements alone do not support that idea.

The reason that I was skittish about saying that is because I'm not trying to debate whether white athletes are getting better treatment. I'm just trying to say that Barry could believe that, and he could pick a more appropriate time to say so. Given the right circumstances, I think that that theory could be defensible (although it may not be correct). These were not the right circumstances.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

To quote John Madden: "You push, you push, you push."

If I remember correctly, in my first response in this thread, I said what I thought Barry was getting at. All other things being equal, would anyone have made a stink about these travel arrangements if a black pitcher had them? It appears to me that Barry thinks the answer is yes. I'm sure that the reporter who mentioned Clemens didn't have race in mind at all, and if this is what Barry Bonds wants to use to try to make a statement about his perceived injustices against black people, he picked the wrong issue. So if he's trying to say that white athletes are treated better, he could probably pick a more defensible issue to stand on. This was not the place to do it. That's why I said that I was seeing a message (the message being that white athletes get better treatment from owners), but I didn't see the relevance. Roger Clemens' travel arrangements alone do not support that idea.

The reason that I was skittish about saying that is because I'm not trying to debate whether white athletes are getting better treatment. I'm just trying to say that Barry could believe that, and he could pick a more appropriate time to say so. Given the right circumstances, I think that that theory could be defensible (although it may not be correct). These were not the right circumstances.

Now was that so hard? And Barry is still a dumbass cause it has nothing to do with skin color but talent level.

[tategter]

I don't think they could have lulled Clemens out of retirement without several perks, so Bonds needs to keep that in mind when making an assinine statement like that. I wonder what would happen if Bonds decided to walk at the end of his contract, only to be brought out of retirement by a team that agreed to only play him during home games? This is the modern era of selfish players, it could happen...

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by tategter

I don't think they could have lulled Clemens out of retirement without several perks, so Bonds needs to keep that in mind when making an assinine statement like that. I wonder what would happen if Bonds decided to walk at the end of his contract, only to be brought out of retirement by a team that agreed to only play him during home games? This is the modern era of selfish players, it could happen...

That's the key. Clemens said hey if you want me to play for you, here are the things I want. If not nevermind. I see nothing wrong with his situation since the team agreed to everything he put out there. If anything blame the team.

[WSUCougar]

What’s bothersome to me about things like this is the damage it does to race relations in our society. Black athletes dominate the major pro sports. That is a fact. Yet blacks are still a minority in the United States, and we all know – at least I hope we do – the continually poor state of race relations in the United States. I can rattle off countless black athletes who have been psoitive role-models, in my opinion: Walter Payton, Jerry Rice, Tony Gwynn, and David Robinson are four that come to mind off the top of my head. The Sporting News does a "good guy" award issue every year, and it is filled with black athletes and the positive things they do for their communities, charities, and so on. I hold out hope that perhaps these individuals and the type of people they are will somehow help dissipate the ignorance and racism that exists in our country, at least among sports fans.

And then I read the sports page, and hear the stories on the radio, and see who’s making news on ESPN. Typically, I don’t see color when I look at a person. But then guys like Bonds make comments like that, I am forced do. And others are more eager than I to see the differences that separate us, and hate more because of them.

[Pumpy Tudors]

WSUCougar did a good job of hitting another point I alluded to. I said that Bonds was possibly trying to say something, but he was saying it to the wrong people. He really should be directing that type of statement at the people who agree with him. Then they can sit together and nod their heads about how a black man can't get Roger Clemens' travel arrangements. By putting it out there for everyone to read, he's not making a difference. He's just polarizing folks. That's not cool.

[clintl]

People are making a much bigger deal out of this than it deserves. The context in which he made this remark is not clear. Barry apparently has had a severe sinus infection for a while now. It looks to me like he was just not interested in the issue, and blurted something out without thinking (which people is something people do when they're ill). Why the hell is the reporter asking Barry about Roger Clemens' travel arrangement, anyway, if he's not trying to pry something provocative out of Barry? The question has nothing to do with Barry or Giants - they weren't even playing the Astros.

Let it go. It is not a remark that has any importance.

[Havok]

what i think bothers me the most about this whole topic is that i can't find an article anywhere about it. He's basically allowed to make stupied race comments because he's black. This bothers me.....

Someone brought Rush's name up earlier, Rush made a comment about race that he probally shouldn't have made and it was on every news channel for the next 2 weeks. He gets fired and ripped to shreds by every sports writer in america.

Then Barry Bonds or Dusty Baker or Spike Lee or anyone who isn't white makes a stupied comment about race and i don't hear a thing about it. Double standards suck.....