Well so much for June 30

[Greyroofoo]

now that the head of the Iraqi Governing Council has died

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

now that the head of the Iraqi Governing Council has died

Well...

The presidency of the governing council is a rotating position.

After the blast, the governing council selected Ghazi Mashal Ajil al-Yawer, a Sunni Muslim from the northern city of Mosul, to replace Salim as its president.

Al-Yawer, a civil engineer, was due to assume the IGC's rotating presidency June 1. He will serve until the handover of sovereignty to a new Iraqi government on June 30.

So we'll have to wait and see whether this has any impact on the June 30 date.

[CraigSca]

I'm not sure this will have much of a bearing. As someone previously said, the position is granted on a rotational basis. Also, though it's the goal to hand the government over on June 30th, the troops will stay per Iraq's request.

Though horrible news, and yet another example of the absolute chaos over there, I don't think it will have that large of an impact.

[sachmo71]

I think it will have a pretty big impact on those that are currently on the council. Reportedly, they missed killing two other cabinet members by seconds.

[BishopMVP]

The fact he was the head of al-Dawa probably had as much to do with it as his being on the IGC. Al-Zarqawi is trying desperately to ignite some sort of Civil War before the June 30 deadline.

[Flasch186]

Like in Volleyball in grade school:

ROTATE!!!!

[MrBug708]

Man, why do you hafta diss my birthday....

[sachmo71]

My sister's birthday is September 11th...ultimate "diss".

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Like in Volleyball in grade school:

ROTATE!!!!

Wow, that brings back some memories!

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

My sister's birthday is September 11th...ultimate "diss".

Bah. I share a birthday with Michael Jackson.

[nfg22]

By the way the troops wont be able to stay per Iraq's request. They wont be able to tell us to stay or leave we have it written down that we will leave when we feel it is neccesary.

Edit: Dont know where it was written cause I just caught it quick on the radio but it said we will stay in Iraq as long as we feel it takes and they cant kick us out.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by nfg22

By the way the troops wont be able to stay per Iraq's request. They wont be able to tell us to stay or leave we have it written down that we will leave when we feel it is neccesary.

Edit: Dont know where it was written cause I just caught it quick on the radio but it said we will stay in Iraq as long as we feel it takes and they cant kick us out.

I'm sorry, what?

Are you saying that US troops don't have to leave Iraq until the US government decides because of a document that was signed?

Was there any doubt that the US was planning on staying until they wanted to leave?

[nfg22]

Thats the jist I got over the radio. and I agree with it. They need us to keep some contol till the country settles down adn we should determine when that is. Not that we should abuse that, but we need to stay and make sure things go ok.

[MrBug708]

Mine is the same day as Mike Tyson

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Thats the jist I got over the radio. and I agree with it. They need us to keep some contol till the country settles down adn we should determine when that is. Not that we should abuse that, but we need to stay and make sure things go ok.

Hmmm...I'll have to think about this one.

My intitial thoughts are that if a soverign country (Iraq after June 30th) asks us to remove our troops from their land, and we refuse to, it hurts that country's credibility, even if it is legal for us to stay, or if it is for their own good.

[nfg22]

True but when we impose a government and dont stay results have been bad, where as when we stay they have been good(S.Korea) I also would like to leave a country if they asked but I think that they need it even if they dont want it and it would be best for them.

[BishopMVP]

Every major official who has spoken on the issue has said we will leave if asked. I'm also pretty certain we won't be handing over control to a group that will ask us to leave.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by nfg22

True but when we impose a government and dont stay results have been bad, where as when we stay they have been good(S.Korea) I also would like to leave a country if they asked but I think that they need it even if they dont want it and it would be best for them.

I don't know if I agree with your "stay or go" theory, as there are many arguments as to whether our provisional governments are "good or bad".

Anyway, I think this is a perfect example of why it would be best to come up with an international solution to post-handover Iraq. That way, instead of the US deciding what is best for Iraq, it might appear more legitimate if the world came up with the decision. Then we could supply the backbone of the force if we wanted, but give the illusion of a multi-national force.

[nfg22]

Yeah well im kinda looking for an I told you so!

Scenario 1. We go it alone and then Iraq works out great, we say see we knew what we were doing and we did it without your backing. We get credibility from the world and all is for the better.

Scenario 2. We get the backing and Iraq still fails. They would still blame us for messing it all up.

I understand the backing would bring about a greater chance of success, and I wouldnt be against it if it were to happen. But I would rather we keep going it alone because if it fails either way we lose almost all credibility. I would have rather had backing at the beggining but now that we dont I say keep going alone.

[Blade6119]

I think this is a minor set-back...the new guy seems to be popular, so i have no complaints about a change in leadership. Maybe the new guy can actually control the iraqi citizens

[BishopMVP]

We already have a number of countries supporting us. Why bring in the other ones who didn't want this war in the first place, have consistently said it'd fail, and will gleefully point it out if it does? Especially given the UN track record.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Bah. I share a birthday with Michael Jackson.

Yeah, but have you ever shared a Birthday party with Michael Jackson?

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Yeah, but have you ever shared a Birthday party with Michael Jackson?

The settlement papers say I'm not allowed to talk about that.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

The settlement papers say I'm not allowed to talk about that.

You had to figure something strange was going on when he kept making you go under the table to blow out his candle.

[JeeberD]

I have the same birthday as Billy Joel...

[Tom E]

Originally Posted by nfg22

By the way the troops wont be able to stay per Iraq's request. They wont be able to tell us to stay or leave we have it written down that we will leave when we feel it is neccesary.

Edit: Dont know where it was written cause I just caught it quick on the radio but it said we will stay in Iraq as long as we feel it takes and they cant kick us out.

Quit listening to AIR AMERICA....

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Tom E

Quit listening to AIR AMERICA....

Air America is still being broadcast on American radio stations???

[Flasch186]

Whoops...is that another news media source saying that Rumsfeld ok'd the treatment or mistreatment of Iraqi's. Where'd that other thread go? I guess it's starting to come out, slowly but much like the thousands of pictures, perhaps it was 7 low rank service men and women, that are talking to those reporters at the New Yorker and Newsweek. Guess the New Yorker is doing a pretty good job of exposing stuff. Please I ask when this comes out can someone tell me how it will be spun? Face it, The admin was so determined to topple Saddam they forgot to plan anything beyond that and they will resort to anything, including spitting on the Geneva convention to get at their means.

The worst part, THE ABSOLUTE WORST part of this is that from now on any US service man or women caught by the enemy will be treated horribly and we will now be able to cry foul according to the Geneva convention.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by nfg22

Thats the jist I got over the radio. and I agree with it. They need us to keep some contol till the country settles down adn we should determine when that is. Not that we should abuse that, but we need to stay and make sure things go ok.

Candidate Kerry said the same thing.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Whoops...is that another news media source saying that Rumsfeld ok'd the treatment or mistreatment of Iraqi's. Where'd that other thread go? I guess it's starting to come out, slowly but much like the thousands of pictures, perhaps it was 7 low rank service men and women, that are talking to those reporters at the New Yorker and Newsweek. Guess the New Yorker is doing a pretty good job of exposing stuff. Please I ask when this comes out can someone tell me how it will be spun? Face it, The admin was so determined to topple Saddam they forgot to plan anything beyond that and they will resort to anything, including spitting on the Geneva convention to get at their means.

The worst part, THE ABSOLUTE WORST part of this is that from now on any US service man or women caught by the enemy will be treated horribly and we will now be able to cry foul according to the Geneva convention.

I think that thread fell to page 2. I'm not going to crosspost the same thing I said there. As for your last sentence, you haven't been paying much attention to other countries if you think someone needs to follow the Geneva Convention in order to bitch about other countries not doing so. And our soldiers haven't exactly been treated very well in custody the last few conflicts we've been involved in, so I don't think this'll change anything there.

[Flasch186]

But we always talk about the moral high ground, i think we should walk the talk. Now roll around in the gutter and hold the benchmark for them to reach while we slither below it. Again, it goes back to forthrighteousness and honesty, my platform.