OK, I just don't get it

[Pyser]

Yes, Giants, I know it's nice that we finally have cap room for the first time, well, ever. So I've put up with the signings of about 30 defensive tackles. And yes, I've bit my tongue after realizing that we'll have SIX new starters in our front seven on D.

But, what is the thinking with Kurt Warner? Last I heard, Eli Manning was going to start all season (which is a whole other debate, what with a veteran team and rookie qb). Fine. So start him. You sure (over)paid enough for him.

But now, Kurt Warner? Let's say he does start. And, lets get crazy for a minute, and assume he suddenly finds his game, and becomes the Warner from 99, and throws 41 tds and leads the Giants into the playoffs. Great. Now what?

Now you've got a rookie qb who is promised the job, and veteran qb who's deal has probably voided and become a FA, and a team revolt on your hands.

What's the thinking here?

[rkmsuf]

As someone said, tutelage

[LionsFan10]

That's fine, if Kurt does well Eli will just whine his way into another trade. Perhaps to San Diego!

Honestly I have no idea why they signed Warner, I highly doubt he'll make a return to his former self from '99. From what I can gather it's just to show lil' Eli that he's not going to have everything handed to him, and he will have some competition during camp. He'll probably just wind up being a mentor to Eli, though.

[cthomer5000]

The thought is "even if Warner can be good again, it likely won't last long."

This is best mix of playing for the now and planning for the future.

[Lucky Jim]

I think the idea is that Warner's wife will be a dominant presence off the edge to complement Strahan

[Pyser]

im assuming he wont be good...so, that wont be a surprise there.

but i couldnt think of many qbs in the league that would make a WORSE mentor than kurt warner. bulger doesnt seem too upset to see him go.

the giants just spent $3-mil on a name for no reason. why not vinnie?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Pyser

im assuming he wont be good...so, that wont be a surprise there.

but i couldnt think of many qbs in the league that would make a WORSE mentor than kurt warner. bulger doesnt seem too upset to see him go.

the giants just spent $3-mil on a name for no reason. why not vinnie?

Vinny is 41 years old, Warner is 33.
Warner will put some asses in the seats (and sell some Jerseys maybe), Vinny will not

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Pyser

im assuming he wont be good...so, that wont be a surprise there.

but i couldnt think of many qbs in the league that would make a WORSE mentor than kurt warner. bulger doesnt seem too upset to see him go.

the giants just spent $3-mil on a name for no reason. why not vinnie?

That's a silly comment, what's Bulger gonna do? Demand a trade if they release Warner?

Fact is, the Giants are hoping Warner can help along Manning the same he did for Bulger.

And why not Vinnie? Wanna talk about a waste of cap space, ugh... Why didn't they just sign Terry Bradshaw in that case, I think he's younger then Vinnie.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Lucky Jim

I think the idea is that Warner's wife will be a dominant presence off the edge to complement Strahan

I don't see the big issue. The Giants wanted Collins back for the same role, and he snubbed them.

If Warner returns to form, how could that be a negative? Manning is the future, everyone knows that. But rare is the rookie QB who can hop in, excel, and lead an NFL team to the promised land right out of the gate. This move only eases the pressure on Manning.

[Surtt]

Originally Posted by Lucky Jim

I think the idea is that Warner's wife will be a dominant presence off the edge to complement Strahan

Strahan, Tiki, and Brenda free for all,

wow.

I hope he lasts until the next off season.

[Pyser]

kerry collins eases the pressure. if they are planning on starting warner, they could have just as easily started collins. collins just didnt want to be a backup.

and my point about bulger was, from stuff ive read, he was a terrible mentor, and completely unhelpful towards bulger. why should he be different in ny? he wants to start for the giants just as badly as he wanted to start for the rams, im sure.

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Pyser

and my point about bulger was, from stuff ive read, he was a terrible mentor, and completely unhelpful towards bulger. why should he be different in ny? he wants to start for the giants just as badly as he wanted to start for the rams, im sure.

Well one advantage to Warner over Collins is they are paying Warner less.

Where have you read that Warner was a poor mentor to Bulger? Here in St. Louis the reports are the opposite. Certainly Warner voiced his opinion that he wanted to play, but Bulger and Warner actually got along well and Warner was always helpful to Bulger. He wanted to start, but he was also willing to do what the team asked him to do.

[Pyser]

i dont remember exactly, but there was all that bible nonsense, and i just got the feeling in general warner wasnt very popular or helpful. though i guess i could be entirely wrong.


my whole point, though, was i just dont get the giants direction. they are 2 wins away from the superbowl 2 seasons ago, and had they not lost that dallas game with a lead with 11 seconds left, and fassel done a decent job in getting the team ready play every week....i just dont think rebuilding is necassary. and i dont think warner will do anything but make the qb situation sticky.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Pyser

Yes, Giants, I know it's nice that we finally have cap room for the first time, well, ever. So I've put up with the signings of about 30 defensive tackles. And yes, I've bit my tongue after realizing that we'll have SIX new starters in our front seven on D.

But, what is the thinking with Kurt Warner? Last I heard, Eli Manning was going to start all season (which is a whole other debate, what with a veteran team and rookie qb). Fine. So start him. You sure (over)paid enough for him.

But now, Kurt Warner? Let's say he does start. And, lets get crazy for a minute, and assume he suddenly finds his game, and becomes the Warner from 99, and throws 41 tds and leads the Giants into the playoffs. Great. Now what?

Now you've got a rookie qb who is promised the job, and veteran qb who's deal has probably voided and become a FA, and a team revolt on your hands.

What's the thinking here?

The thinking is clear.

Let's say, for example, young Manning goes down in the first game, or worse, in the pre-season and will miss considerable time (if not the whole season). That leaves... The Bachelor and the Pilsbury Throwboy as the Giants' possible starters? Warner hasn't lit up the world the last few years, but he has to be a better option than the Bachelor or J-Load.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Pyser

i dont remember exactly, but there was all that bible nonsense, and i just got the feeling in general warner wasnt very popular or helpful. though i guess i could be entirely wrong.

You are entirely wrong. :o

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Pyser

i dont remember exactly, but there was all that bible nonsense, and i just got the feeling in general warner wasnt very popular or helpful. though i guess i could be entirely wrong.


my whole point, though, was i just dont get the giants direction. they are 2 wins away from the superbowl 2 seasons ago, and had they not lost that dallas game with a lead with 11 seconds left, and fassel done a decent job in getting the team ready play every week....i just dont think rebuilding is necassary. and i dont think warner will do anything but make the qb situation sticky.

Well Warner is 32 so I don't think anyone thinks he is the long term solution whether Manning pans out or not. And I think your point about the Giants not needing to be in rebuild mode makes it even clearer why they signed Warner. Manning is likely going to be a very good quarterback, but it is very rare for a rookie QB to make an impact in the NFL. And if Manning doesn;t get off to a great start the Giants may not want to just flush the season while he gets experience.

Again there are several advantages to bringing in Warner instead of holding on to Collins. Warner is cheaper, if he reverts to his old form he is much better than Collins, and he was brought in with the understanding that he would be competing, but most likely backing up Manning to start the season. His mind set even thogh he wants to start will likely be better than Collins who was pushed out by the rookie.

And as HB pointed out now that Collins is gone Warner is a much better option if Manning doesn't play well or gets hurt than the other guys they had waiting in the wings.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Vinny is 41 years old, Warner is 33.
Warner will put some asses in the seats (and sell some Jerseys maybe), Vinny will not

The Giants season tickets are all sold out. Putting people into seats is not a concern.

And the only reason someone will buy a Warner Giants jersey is so they can have a friend of their's in a Strahan jersey imitate a sack of Warner.

If bringing in a veteran to help Eli is the main goal, then they should go with Vinnie. He could probably teach Eli 10 times better than Warner, and has about 1000 times more things he could teach him.

Even still, Bill Parcells seems to think Vinnie can still play (when given protection). That's a pretty big endorsement that they guy still has some stuff left in him.

[sachmo71]

I'll trade you. Testaverde for Manning straight up. Show me some of those New York cojones!

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by sabotai

If bringing in a veteran to help Eli is the main goal, then they should go with Vinnie. He could probably teach Eli 10 times better than Warner, and has about 1000 times more things he could teach him.

1. How to walk without any knees
2. How to mix Geritol into the Gatorade without clouding it up
3. How to handle New York pressure (ah-ha!)
4. How to be a big-name college QB coming into the NFL and sucking out for many years (ah-ha-ha!)
5. The art of the waffling INT
.
.
.

[Pyser]

actually, it looks like warner has perfected the art of the waffling INT, too.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by sabotai

The Giants season tickets are all sold out. Putting people into seats is not a concern.

I'm well aware. I've been on the Giants and Jets season ticket waiting lists since 1995, and there is no end in sight to either.

But if you think really hard, can you think of any reason a team might want fans to actually attend games? Don't tell me getting people into the stadium isn't a concern.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Even still, Bill Parcells seems to think Vinnie can still play (when given protection). That's a pretty big endorsement that they guy still has some stuff left in him.

I love Parcells more than most people, but let's be reasonable here. He also seemed to think Marion Butts and Blair Thomas still had something left in the tank.

His misses far outweight his hits when it comes to personnel. His real strength seems to be developing young players, then later relying on those old guys with other squads.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I love Parcells more than most people, but let's be reasonable here. He also seemed to think Marion Butts and Blair Thomas still had something left in the tank.

His misses far outweight his hits when it comes to personnel. His real strength seems to be developing young players, then later relying on those old guys with other squads.

Parcells will give opportunities to "his guys" whenever possible.

Please don't utter Marion Butts again...

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Marion Butts

Hark! It's the annual Marion Butts reference!

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by Pyser

bulger doesnt seem too upset to see him go.

If I were Bulger, I would be delighted to see Warner go no matter how much I may have liked him. Warner leaving means that Bulger is guaranteed to be the starter today and in the future. He will not need to worry about people calling for Warner to play after a bad game.

[Arles]

I think that signing Warner is a good move for the G-men. All accounts (from both St. Louis and his limited stay in GB) were that he had no problem sitting the bench. In fact, reporters that followed Warner in his one camp in GB and some that followed last season in St. Louis both have stated that Warner seemed to often prefer to be holding the clipboard and content just taking a paycheck. It was almost like his wife was more upset about him not playing than Warner himself.

Warner seems like a pretty sharp guy and has worked with the likes of Favre, Brunell, Green, Holmgren, Mariuchi, Martz and Vermeil. So, he probably has some knowledge to pass on to young Eli. And, considering the younger Manning's psyche at the draft, I would rather have a guy like Warner than a "hungrier" backup like Collins or Couch that would be a little more competitive with him and less helpful.

[Leonidas]

I'd call it insurance. More times than not rookie QBs stink the joint up. If Eli starts out with like a 50 pt rating and a TD-INT ratio like 3-11 after five games they can fall back on Warner. If you let a rookie QB get beat up like that I think it starts working against them rather than helping them learn.

[Pyser]

"If he had a great year and we had a great year, certainly I don't think you would just pull the plug on it," Accorsi said.


and the muddling begins.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

But if you think really hard, can you think of any reason a team might want fans to actually attend games? Don't tell me getting people into the stadium isn't a concern.

When it comes to deciding on a backup QB, it's not.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by sabotai

When it comes to deciding on a backup QB, it's not.

So you seriously believe that Manning will be starting opening day/most of the season?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

4. How to be a big-name college QB coming into the NFL and sucking out for many years (ah-ha-ha!)

You know, the signs were all there. He can play a really good regular season (if he wants to), but he wasn't the guy you want playing in the National Championship game. How many times did Penn State pick him off again?

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

So you seriously believe that Manning will be starting opening day/most of the season?

I seriously beleive that Warner is still injury prone and that his confidence on the field is shot. After a couple of games, Coughlin will not have a choice but to start Manning.

There's a reason Warner essentially got a 1 year deal. Because the Giants don't think he'll lead them to the promise land and it's not because they thought Warner would put people in the stands. It was because he'd be a better teacher for Manning's rookie year then Jesse Palmer.

Edit: And my point is if they wanted a teacher, they should have gotten Vinnie.