This is why the triple crown is so hard to do.

[Axxon]

What a great race. I thought Smarty had it but he didn't quite have it today.

[korme]

I juist tried to make a thread for 5 minutes about this but fucking wouldn't process

What a finish.

[Axxon]

It was amazing. I'm loving listening to the jockey of the winner. He sounds so disappointed too. Everybody wanted Smarty to win except Birdstone.

That's why I love racing.

[MrBug708]

Indeed. I think Elliot over-estimated Rock Hard 10, who faded hard

[Eaglesfan27]

Yeah, he didn't save enough for the end. It was a very good race.

[Arles]

A great way to end it. Birdstone just beat him. The winning jockey almost looked guilty for beating Smarty in the interview. Overall, though, it was an outstanding race.

[MizzouRah]

That was quite exciting. I thought Smarty had it.


Todd

[Axxon]

Heh, I had a thread set up with the title "Way to go Smarty" with some congratulatory text in the message but I quickly backspaced and created this thread instead.

[wbatl1]

Should of held him back more on the backstretch. He needed to let Smarty do the catching on the final stretch.

[Axxon]

What's amazing to me is this is the second time this jockey has upset a triple crown. Very nice.

[Philliesfan980]

Welcome to my hell of being a Philadelphia sports fan.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Welcome to my hell of being a Philadelphia sports fan.

Ditto. My friends in Philly had a party planned for the win

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Welcome to my hell of being a Philadelphia sports fan.

Only, for this one very special time, I was rooting for the Philadephian.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Ditto. My friends in Philly had a party planned for the win

These are horses. Your friends should hold the party anyway just to celebrate the amazing competetive spirit of an amazing individual athlete. Birdsong didn't know any better. He doesn't have a thing against Philly.

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Only, for this one very special time, I was rooting for the Philadephian.

I appreciate your sympathy. This is pretty much the way I imagined it would go, get to the end and then someone would jump on him. Much like the Eagles in the past two NFC Championship games.

On a side note, considering that I don't know much about horse racing, what are the chances that Smart Jones could come back next year? I think he's going to be 4 years old. Isn't that past prime?

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

I appreciate your sympathy. This is pretty much the way I imagined it would go, get to the end and then someone would jump on him. Much like the Eagles in the past two NFC Championship games.

On a side note, considering that I don't know much about horse racing, what are the chances that Smart Jones could come back next year? I think he's going to be 4 years old. Isn't that past prime?

Well, since my home team had a hand in the first one and my new home's team had a hand in the second...



Actually, I'm no expert so I imagine more knowledgeable folks will answer, but I'd say 4 isn't too old. I think Smarty has another chance at greatness.

I'm not against all Philadelphia sports or athletes. I'm a Rocky fan.

I just hate the Eagles.

[sabotai]

On a side note, considering that I don't know much about horse racing, what are the chances that Smart Jones could come back next year?

I'm pretty sure these races are restricted to 3-year olds. So the answer is none.

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I'm pretty sure these races are restricted to 3-year olds. So the answer is none.

Thats what I was gathering by listining to the comments by NBC today. Nobody even mentioned anything about "Well - you have a great shot next year" or anything like that.

If nothing else, this has made me appreciate the skill and excitement that is horseracing. So what other races can Smarty race in for the rest of his career? What age will he stop racing?

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I'm pretty sure these races are restricted to 3-year olds. So the answer is none.

Google says you're right. I'm sure there are good reasons but I'll no longer consider these races contests amongst the greatest horses we have.

Has there ever been a Danny Almonte horse???

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Thats what I was gathering by listining to the comments by NBC today. Nobody even mentioned anything about "Well - you have a great shot next year" or anything like that.

If nothing else, this has made me appreciate the skill and excitement that is horseracing. So what other races can Smarty race in for the rest of his career? What age will he stop racing?

Hey, don't weep for Smarty. Once he retires he gets to spend years performing stud duty. We should all be so lucky.

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Well, since my home team had a hand in the first one and my new home's team had a hand in the second...



Actually, I'm no expert so I imagine more knowledgeable folks will answer, but I'd say 4 isn't too old. I think Smarty has another chance at greatness.

I'm not against all Philadelphia sports or athletes. I'm a Rocky fan.

I just hate the Eagles.

Thanks! I have nothing against SC people either. My Wife's parents lived in Greenville SC for 2 years, and I went down there before. I won't comment about that city . j/k

As for the Eagles, not to totally change the thread, but I don't see why people would HATE them, but I'm hearing that really is the general concencious. I know being a fan you get sort of blinded towards a teams annoying habits or irritations that the rest of the country feels. (Example being the Cowboys - the rest of the league pretty much hates them , but nobody in Dallas can see why).

I don't think the Eagles last year (sure to change this year with Owens) had too many "showboats" or irritating, "I want punch you in the face", characters.

[sabotai]

He can still compete in the Breeder's Cup, I think. Other than that, someone else can answer better than I can.

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Google says you're right. I'm sure there are good reasons but I'll no longer consider these races contests amongst the greatest horses we have.

Has there ever been a Danny Almonte horse???

haha! You would think that it wouldn't be too hard to forge that! I mean , can you really tell the difference between a 3 year old horse and a 4 year old horse by just looking at it?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by sabotai

He can still compete in the Breeder's Cup, I think. Other than that, someone else can answer better than I can.

There are many stakes races he can run, but if he badly injured he will not be able to stud. He'll run a couple more races and retire at 3.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Thanks! I have nothing against SC people either. My Wife's parents lived in Greenville SC for 2 years, and I went down there before. I won't comment about that city . j/k

As for the Eagles, not to totally change the thread, but I don't see why people would HATE them, but I'm hearing that really is the general concencious. I know being a fan you get sort of blinded towards a teams annoying habits or irritations that the rest of the country feels. (Example being the Cowboys - the rest of the league pretty much hates them , but nobody in Dallas can see why).

I don't think the Eagles last year (sure to change this year with Owens) had too many "showboats" or irritating, "I want punch you in the face", characters.

I'M FROM TAMPA.

YOU GUYS DID TO US WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOU GUYS THE LAST TWO YEARS.

Aside from that, I have no gripe with the Eagles.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

There are many stakes races he can run, but if he badly injured he will not be able to stud. He'll run a couple more races and retire at 3.

Why not? Unless he injures his genitals, why would that impact his studly duties???

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Why not? Unless he injures his genitals, why would that impact his studly duties???

A thouroughbred must actually "do the dead" for the fold to be able to race. No artificial stuff. So, if he gets hurt to the poiunt he can't mount the philly, he is useless as a stud.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

A thouroughbred must actually "do the dead" for the fold to be able to race. No artificial stuff. So, if he gets hurt to the poiunt he can't mount the philly, he is useless as a stud.

Man, I hope you meant "deed."

I see what you're saying though. I hadn't thought about that.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Axxon

Man, I hope you meant "deed."

Yep, but the mis-spelling does lead to a pretty funny (if creepy) statement.

[Philliesfan980]

Whats the story with that "Secretariat" character. Wasn't he something like 77-0 in his career? (I may be butchering this completely - like I said I'm very ignorant towards horse racing).

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Yep, but the mis-spelling does lead to a pretty funny (if creepy) statement.

One of the funniest typos I' ve read this year and yep, it's creepy but that's my sense of humor.

[ageofquarrel]

isnt there like uh.. fluffer horses(think there is actually a term for this) that get the female horse ready also? man i wish i knew more about horse racing and garden state raceway didnt close down.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by ageofquarrel

isnt there like uh.. fluffer horses(think there is actually a term for this) that get the female horse ready also? man i wish i knew more about horse racing and garden state raceway didnt close down.

Kind of...not really. There is a male horse that breeders use to see if the female is "willing and able". Usually this horse is used to see if the female is pregnant. As in, if she was mated 4 weeks ago, and is now no longer willing, then she's pregnant. If she is willing and able...then it kind of sucks for that male horse because he gets taken out and the stud gets brought in.

[Bill Abner]

A few notes for those curious about this stuff:

-The Triple Crown is restricterd to 3 year olds

-Smarty, so I have heard, has plans to race through his 3 year old season and quite possibly his 4 year old season if he stays sound and shows that he wants to run. I read in the Thoroughbred Times that he's penciled in to run in the Pennsylvania Derby at Philly Park and also maybe in the Haskell Invitational. If he continues to perform well he could race in the BC Classic against older horses. (Which will test just how good or how terribly bad this crop of 3 year olds is)

-Thoroughbreds are not past their prime at 4. In fact, most horses do not reach their peak until they're 5 or so. But by that time most top quality horses are retired for breeding or due to injury.

-Secretariat was not 77-0. He lost several races, actually. Four, to be precise. Want to see a good looking past performance card?

http://www.secretariat.com/past_performance.htm

-As for the race, man I thought about 20 yards outside the 1/8 pole that he was a winner. I think that Elusive Quality/Smile blood finally reared its head that last 1/4 mile. The tank was empty. Still, that was a hell of a race. I sure wanted him to win (badly) but the bottom line was that he just wasn't good enough. There's really no excuses.

-I'm already hearing the cries from the general media (ESPN Radio) that we need to change the Triple Crown "rules" so that "fresh" horses cannot run in the Belmont. (Like Birdstone and last year with Empire Maker). I have a diatribe about that which I'll spare you. But what a travesty that would be if they did that.

[Anthony]

nice website link, Bill. thanks.

[Leonidas]

I got the feeling the folks running Smarty didn;t respect the field enough and felt like they could do whatever. They made their move far too soon, assuming no one else in the field would or could respond. We all know now how that turned out. Great race though.

[Bill Abner]

I don't think Elliott had anything to do with Smarty taking the lead that soon. That wasn't the plan. Smarty wasn't terribly comfortable and pretty much drug Elliott to the front. I really wish he would have let Purge and the Rock go and stalked them.

“He didn’t look like he settled as well as he had in his previous races,” trainer John Servis said of Smarty Jones. “I wasn't feeling good down the backside.”

That says a lot, I think. Fact is, the horse that was bred to run 12F won the race and Smarty just ran out of juice that last 100 yards. No one said (or should have said...)winning the Belmont would be easy.

[judicial clerk]

Why no artificial insemination?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by judicial clerk

Why no artificial insemination?

I don't know the reason for sure, but most likely to keep a thousand sons of Secretariat being born every year.

[QuikSand]

A comment or two on all this stuff, FWIW.


-The Triple Crown, while the most visible events in horse racing, are not really the equivalent of "championships" -- it's not a contest of the best of the best, it's just a high profile and storied series of great races for three year-olds. Thus - only one chance for anyone to be in them, period.

Can Smarty Jones race on for glory? Sure. There are some more big races for 3yos later this year (most notably the Travers at Saratoga) and there is good money to be made in them. And then he will essentially graduate to "older horse" class, where there are always opportunitites for big paydays (quite a few stakes races with purses of $500,000 or more, all suitable for a nice horse like him and others who have graduated from the Triple Crown races and continued on as older horses).

And, then there's the Breeder's Cup. The Classic (the race for which Smarty would be suited) has a $4,000,000 purse - so that's a very worthwhile prize as well. And the giant race held each summer in Dubai is worth $4m or more -- and many top thoroughbreds make the trip there to take a stab at it (Silver Charm, a Derby/Preakness winner from several years ago, won that race as a 4yo). So, in addition to the fairly routine - there are some big-time chances to take down some huge payoffs as an active older runner.


So, why not let him keep racing? We need to put the racing industry into some perspective.

Smarty Jones has already had one of the richest years in racing earnings by any horse ever (maybe the greatest), largely due to winning the Oaklawn Park bonus of $5 million for winning both their stakes races and the Kentucky Derby. So, he's put some $7m in the bank this year -- very nice by any standard, really.

Now, the other horses who remain "involved" in the racing industry are the stallions - who are breeding the ongoing generations of the racing thoroughbred. Storm Cat, North America's top stallion right now, earns for his owners somewhere between $50 and $100 million each year in stud fees. Thoroughbred breeding is big business, and the top stallions can cover an awful lot of mares, and get paid very handsomely for doing so.

So - this affects Smarty Jones, since he already has a lot of value as a potential sire. Right now, I have heard his value pinned at something like $100 million -- that may dip after the Belmont loss, but not by that much. He's still very valuable -- his get will be highly coveted on name along fir his first few years standing, while there does not yet exist much track record for his offspring. (After the first few years, you have to "earn" your fee by having your offspring do well in races) So - he's worth a lot as a potential stallion, and as noted above - there are risks in keeping him on the course.

So, practically speaking, if you want to keep running him - you have to insure him. That would probably cost something like $2-4 million a year (rough guess). Now you're talking about a pretty big risk -- sure, if he does really well in big races, he can earn more than that and you can come out ahead, but he could also run into more opposition among older horses and have a decent, but not exceptional, career -- and be totally unable to even pay his own way.

So, what business decision do you make? Tough to say. It's very popular to say "leave him on the track!" but it's very difficult to make the claim that he should stay there. What you don't want to see is a potentially wonderful sire and a certainly wonderful racehorse get seriously injured while running in what amounts to a nothing event. That's always a risk with any horserace, and it simply has to be part of the consideration with Smarty or anyone else.

Last year's Belmont winner Empire Maker never ran again - he was found to have a minor injury some time after the race, and was pulled out of the Travers and subsequently retired. He had impeccable breeding, and was definitely worth an awful lot in the shed as well -- he faced a similar (though not as high profile) decision.

Right now, Smnarty's owners are saying they want to run him all this year, and maybe next year. I'd like to see it happen, it would be really good for racing. (As would a rejuvenated effort or two from Funny Cide, the gelding who won last year's Derby and Preakness, but is proving to be pretty mediocre as an older horse) But I can certainly understand the response from owners who face all the above and decide to choose the route that is safest for the horse, his health, and his future.

[finkenst]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

But I can certainly understand the response from owners who face all the above and decide to choose the route that is safest for the horse, his health, and his future.

Not to mention the owner's pocket books already noted.

[Chubby]

When I was at Arlington on Saturday, it was reported that the bid was now $50 million for Smarty's breeding rights.

[Bill Abner]

I hope Claiborne gets him so I can go see him. My luck the Coolmore bastards will win the bid.

[sterlingice]

Quik, great post. I know nothing about horse racing but a post like that really helps to explain stuff to us of the horse racing illiterate

SI

[rkmsuf]

The Chapmans already have an offer in the 30 million range on the table for Smarty but they impress me as the types to keep him running if sound as a 4 year old.

To me Elliot rode a very tight race...ultra conservative. I guess you could say it was warrantted but I'd would have rather seen him let Smarty go right to the lead instead of trying to wrangle him back between horses. The pace was ultra slow. Who knows though, he only missed by a length and the two were well clear.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

To me Elliot rode a very tight race...ultra conservative. I guess you could say it was warrantted but I'd would have rather seen him let Smarty go right to the lead instead of trying to wrangle him back between horses. The pace was ultra slow. Who knows though, he only missed by a length and the two were well clear.

Smarty's final quarter mile was run in a tick or two over 27 seconds... that is just "stopping." I think it's tough to argue that using up even more energy early would have made things better for him.

But I, too, find basically no faultwith Elliot's ride. I think he just ran out of horse - but was still good enough to beat everyone but the one horse who really had the distance in him, and very nearly good enough to beat him, too.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Smarty's final quarter mile was run in a tick or two over 27 seconds... that is just "stopping." I think it's tough to argue that using up even more energy early would have made things better for him.

But I, too, find basically no faultwith Elliot's ride. I think he just ran out of horse - but was still good enough to beat everyone but the one horse who really had the distance in him, and very nearly good enough to beat him, too.

I looked at the fractions again and I think the 3rd fraction was 23. That's ridiculous for 1/4. They really picked it up from the half to the mile mark. That's the part of the race that did him in while battling up front. My only contention is that if he had taken the initiative it would have been a much easier trip on the front and could have dictated the pace a bit more. Chasing is always harder than leading.

It's a minor point and Jones is likely not going to get a mile and a quarter but considering the margin was a length he might have won wire to wire had that been the tactic. Considering Servis said he didn't settle why make him settle and use energy wrangling him back.

[QuikSand]

I don't really disagree with you, rkmsuf -- but what are you really suggesting here? Should Smarty have let Rock Hard Ten take the lead from him going into the far turn? I'm thining that was where the pace really got to him -- when RHT (and then Eddington) were pressing him for the lead, and he was working pretty hard to fend off the challenge. I have trouble arguing that they would have been better served to let one or both of them pass him, in the hopes that Smarty could outkick them down the long stretch -- that just doesn't add up to me.


Or are you saying that letting Smarty go early (in the first half) and get farther ahead woudl have made those mid-race challenges less likely, as RHT and Edd would have had more ground to make up to get into a pressing position?

I think I could accept the latter more easily than the former. But I agree - it's a fairly minor point, as I don't see either tactic likely rescuing the race for him.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I don't really disagree with you, rkmsuf -- but what are you really suggesting here? Should Smarty have let Rock Hard Ten take the lead from him going into the far turn? I'm thining that was where the pace really got to him -- when RHT (and then Eddington) were pressing him for the lead, and he was working pretty hard to fend off the challenge. I have trouble arguing that they would have been better served to let one or both of them pass him, in the hopes that Smarty could outkick them down the long stretch -- that just doesn't add up to me.


Or are you saying that letting Smarty go early (in the first half) and get farther ahead woudl have made those mid-race challenges less likely, as RHT and Edd would have had more ground to make up to get into a pressing position?

I think I could accept the latter more easily than the former. But I agree - it's a fairly minor point, as I don't see either tactic likely rescuing the race for him.

It's the second point that I favor. Let RHT and EDD chase instead. It was slow early so there was no reason to park on their flank. The easiest trip in racing is alone on the front. I would have opted for the lead rather than struggling with getting the horse to settle.

I think the pace heated up so much because Jones pushed the leaders, the leaders saw him and were hell bent on keep him at bay. Turn the tables and perhaps the trailing horses make their move later and Smarty gets away with something other than a 23 middle fraction. Would only take a minor adjustment to reverse the length Birdstone won by. The pair were well clear.