Hattrick 6.6 At a Glance

[mckerney]

Hattrick 6.6 at a glance

Transfer market
We're changing the fees on transfers. The longer the player has been on your team, the less fees you have to pay when you sell him. Don't sell players the same day you buy him - wait a couple of weeks at least.

Regional transfer lists
To make it easier to search the transfer market, you can now search within 8 "zones" instead of each country separately, for instance "Western Europe" or "South America".

Transfer compare
This is a new feature on the player page that brings up a list of recent transfers for similar players. To help you can find the right price.

Total Skill Index
Instead of the old "assessed value" of a player, we will call that value "Total Skill Index". This is to not confuse newer users who might think that the old "assessed value" was correct.

Match engine
We've improved the match engine in a couple of minor ways.
Midfield now gets slightly less important compared to attack and defense
Anyone can get a Counter-Attack, although the chance is very small unless you use the Counter-Attack tactic
The Counter-Attack tactic makes you lose somewhat less midfield skill than before, so it is a little better
A large number of small changes that improve presentation of the match report

Salaries
The formula that decides player salaries has been changed. Secondary skills (for instance, passing or defending for midfielders) will be cheaper. Also, stamina only matters for the salary of players with high playmaking, and it won't matter to the salary if a player is injured or not when the salary is set.

Team ratings
The team ratings have been halved: This means that if your team used to get "excellent" midfield, it will now only be called "weak". It is just as good as before, of course, but a change such as this one had to come, or else we'd end up in a situation where all teams had "divive" ratings everywhere, which would make impossible to compare teams.

[GoldenEagle]

I like some of it, I don't like other parts of it.

[Nyarlahotep]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

I like some of it, I don't like other parts of it.

Couldn't agree more.

[TargetPractice6]

Overall this gets a hige thumbs down for me. The only thing I liked was regional transfer markets. Granted I like that a lot. However I'm extremely upset about ratings being halfed. That's so stupid. All they had to do was add a number next to divine to indicate how many levels it was above divine. But no, of course they choose the fucking stupid option.

[mckerney]

The change may be good for some, but looking at these ratings for my last match just makes me sad:

Square Pegs
Player rating and Team formation
Team Attitude: Match of the Season
Tactic: Normal
Tactic skill: (Unlimited)

Midfield: weak
Right Side Defence: inadequate
Central Defence: weak
Left Side Defence: inadequate
Right Side Attack: weak
Central Attack: weak
Left Side Attack: weak

[GoldenEagle]

As MC refered to on AIM, the ratings only affects the National Teams and maybe the top Sweddish league. A big thumbs down for me. I hope they change this.

[NAIWF]

Transfer market - I like

Regional transfer lists - I like

Transfer compare - only good for commonly sold players

Total Skill Index - stupid

Match engine - I knew it was coming, benefits scoring trainers most

Salaries - I like

Team ratings - My 90 NSI qualifier just turned into a 47, that REALLY REALLY sucks.

[mckerney]

I also don't like the $ value being replaced by TSI, if for no other reason than $835 000 on player information looks a helluva lot nicer than TSI=8350

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by NAIWF

Transfer market - I like

Regional transfer lists - I like

Transfer compare - only good for commonly sold players

Total Skill Index - stupid

Match engine - I knew it was coming, benefits scoring trainers most

Salaries - I like

Team ratings - My 90 NSI qualifier just turned into a 47, that REALLY REALLY sucks.

Could not agree more.

[Havok]

i truly hate the new ratings...... I like TP's idea much better.

And im not thrilled about passing and defending secondarys skills costing less. It kinda throws a wrench into my future plan since i bought a couple middy's with low secondary's which im taking to around mythical so they're salaries would be low.

But everything else im fine with......

[GoldenEagle]

Someone please explaun the purpose of the TSI please?

[mckerney]

Norge's U-20 team put up a divine midfield rating in the last game against the US.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Someone please explaun the purpose of the TSI please?

"The problem is that newbies easily get the impression that "Assessed value" has something to do with transfer prices. This is bad for the newbies and for the functioning of the transfer market."

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by mckerney

"The problem is that newbies easily get the impression that "Assessed value" has something to do with transfer prices. This is bad for the newbies and for the functioning of the transfer market."

Who cares?

[mckerney]

Not me.

[figofamz]

whoa whoa whoa. im fucking confused. team ratings halfed????
Does this mean when i had to struggle to get a weak on midfield im now getting wrecthed or what?
And how.... mon forget it

[figofamz]

whoa what the hell is up with this TSI stuff. it makes hattrick now look like a super nintendo football game. what the hell.
Anyone know of any fantasy soccer games out there similar to how hattrick was??? lol

[mckerney]

Couldn't they give us the choice to switch from TSI to $ values when we know what the hell we're doing?

[GoldenEagle]

The transfer zones may eliminate day trading but now you will never find a "great" buy.

[rickJ]

Transfer market - not bad

Regional transfer lists - works

Transfer compare - Probably a bit better then TPE

Total Skill Index - Will take some getting used to, a lot of getting used to and I doubt I'll ever like it though, something about having a team worth $15mil in D.V is cooler then a TSI of 150000

Match engine - Makes sense, and is a lot better now it'll report close chances as such, though somewhat would've rathered it have some indication of how beaten attack was "The Avies forward looked foolish as his attack was repelled," vs. "A desperate tackle stopped the Flamers from a clear scoring opportunity".

Salaries - As a PM trainer would've rathered have it been dropped, but it still probably helps us the most

Team ratings - Is amazingly harsh on newbies now that 2 wretched midfields could have a difference of 95-5 in possession. Think it would've made sense to change it to each level being increasingly difficult to reach not every level. Right now there's the way that there's less difference between each level and it'll annoyingly stay that way.

[Rich1033]

Wow the new ratings are a horrible idea. My Brilliant-magnificent-excellent attack just went down to a passable-passable-weak.

I know it shouldnt, but that has kinda killed hattrick for me at the moment. Hopefully I will get used to this in time.

[figofamz]

ONE BIG QUESTION: i know already, but can someone briefly explain how all this is gonna affect the so called 3rd year newbies like myself?

FOr instance the fact that playmaking is not that important or whatever, and i was planning to train that this season or next.

The fact that the ratings or halved, and now im clueless as to which team is good and which is not. How will i know what to be getting to move to like div.4 and all that stuff. How will i know what 3 solid playmakers will give me in the midfield?

Mon this just kill the vibes rasta

[GoldenEagle]

I agree. This does seem to take alot out for me. These ratings I have worked hard for are just gone in the blink of an eye. It is frustrating.

[Rich1033]

Originally Posted by figofamz

ONE BIG QUESTION: i know already, but can someone briefly explain how all this is gonna affect the so called 3rd year newbies like myself?

FOr instance the fact that playmaking is not that important or whatever, and i was planning to train that this season or next.

The fact that the ratings or halved, and now im clueless as to which team is good and which is not. How will i know what to be getting to move to like div.4 and all that stuff. How will i know what 3 solid playmakers will give me in the midfield?

Mon this just kill the vibes rasta

Well most of these are things we will learn in time as we get used to it. As for knowing what kind of ratings you will now need, well just cut them in half to get an idea. Your 3 solid PMers will have the same effect as before, you will just get half the midfield in your team ratings.

Also even with the changes in playmaking I believe MF will still be most important. They are just closing the gaps a little.

My problem is that the ratings now just dont make much sense. My brilliant scorer with passable exp combined with a high formidable scorer and a low formidable scorer only equal a passable central attack? WTF

[GoldenEagle]

I thought they said the changes in 6.6 would be minor? Sheesh.

[TargetPractice6]

Originally Posted by Rich1033

Also even with the changes in playmaking I believe MF will still be most important. They are just closing the gaps a little.

Midfield wasn't even the most important before the changes. It's been extremely weak lately.

[-Panther]

my striker trio of a magnificent, a brilliant, and a formidable/solid, who were capable of putting up a world class central attack, now look likea bunch of gay ass pussies who can only muster up a fucking passable...

my ratings look like shit. everything else I like*. but it's going to take a looooooong time to get used to the new ratings... 1.5 real years worth of work has now been wasted visually.

although, on the bright side, appearance wise, I won't be soo overmatched in III.15 this season...

the only other thing I really don't care for is the TSI crap. just makes looking at my player page stupid and confusing:

Larry Holtz
TSI=13450 (1 354 000)

is hiddeous. instead of 8.5 mil, my team is now worth a whopping 85000 TSI

[JAG]

Here's my take for what it's worth (this is a newbie's point of view);

Transfer market - Sounds good.

Regional transfer lists - Outstanding. No more flipping through 50 countries. Also is nice for those listing players in smaller countries, as they are more apt to get better deals now.

Transfer compare - Excellent.

Total Skill Index - Indifferent. I'll probably still think of it as monetary value, just with a different presentation.

Match engine - Sounds reasonable and doesn't sound like it's a huge change.

Salaries - Sounds fine, I haven't noticed this much.

Team ratings - I can see how those who have built up from the days of a disastrous to a formidable would hate this, but since I'm just getting started, this doesn't matter much at all to me. Going back and looking at match reports though, I really like the + and - signs giving a little more detail as to how your performance really was, on the high or low end of disastrous.


The main changes that affect me are the transfer market changes and they seem to be very positive, so I give it a thumbs up.

[daedalus]

Transfer market
I like it. Seems bit harder on the daytraders than I thought they would have been, given the way they "previewed" this upcoming change. Of course, my favourite part of it all is the comment "The player has been on your team forever". I'm impressed that theyeven got the one part I was worried about, youth pulls, right in the initial implementation (start out immediately as a "forever" player).

Regional transfer lists
It's a nice addition. Makes transfer hunting less tedious than before and hopefully make it possible for smaller countries to be able to get more sales - say, a league like Bolivia that I may have skipped before since it was such a small market that it doesn't always turn up someone so I skip them when I had to do each country by hand. I'm not sure how the bargain hunters would feel about this, though. One thing, doesn't this make the search by league option kind of redundant or useless? I don't see much use for it with the search by zone option available.

Transfer compare
Not a bad thing. How much use it will be will depend on how well it is implemented, I think. If the threshold they used to get a similarity match is a useful one (i.e., reasonably close that you don't get a 'false' hits but not too close than you never get a match), then it would be great. It would lessen the need for a pricing thread where you may not always have time to wait for a response (if you're lazy like me and generally search for someone who comes up within the next few hours).

Total Skill Index
I don't understand the furor over this. Those beloved assessed value is STILL there for you to look at and stroke yourself to when you look at your incredible trainees, it just has a different title for it. And I happen to agree with the reasoning for it, it helps newer players. It love to hear/read the "who cares!" reasoning from "veterans" of games. We were ALL those "stupid n00bs" at one time or another. We happen to be lucky to have the resources (between advices and past mistakes by others) here to help us get past the hump faster than the average new players. Without fresh blood or new players, persistent games get stale. Fast.

Match engine
Interesting. They have been heading toward balance the all-encompassing effect of midfield in the game engine. Hopefully, we'll be finding a happy medium sometime soon. I'm surprise they did not do more to add effectiveness to secondaries (than to just lower salaries) since I thought that was what they had implied in the "preview". I'm glad they are trying to work on things for defenders trainers. They could use a little help within the game. I don't know if he had this in mind or not, but -Panther mentioned a bit ago about how he felt that having 3 good defenders to support 1 good goalkeeper (as oppose to just 3 average defender with 1 great goalkeeper) was underappreciated but he seems spot on with the change that the developers are bringing in. He's ahead of his time! Yet another positive change for defenders trainers. Woo-Hoo! (Let's just call 6.6 the "Defenders Update"!)

Salaries
An interesting idea that I think, again, will depend on the implementation as to how effective it is.

Team ratings
Honestly, all I can think of as I read the furious complaints about this is: "PEOPLE WILL LOSE POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Could they have handled it better? Absolutely. As was mentioned, since it only effect a few teams (in relation to the number of active teams present in Hattrick), they could have just added a numerical value to the levels of Divine to distinguish between the "really" divine and the just "kinda" divine". (As an aside, my serie's champion played a Qualification game against a D.III team that put up a divine midfield which would suggest that it isn't just the National Teams and maybe the top Swedish league or just the Major League that was putting that up. At least, it *was* divine before the change brought it down to "merely" world class.)

On the other hand, all these names (poor, weak, brilliant, magnificent) are just tags to represent a hidden numerical value. Who cares if they added "righteous" and "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" to represent something above "divine" and "substandard shite" and "why bother?" to represent something under wretched or if they just changed what tags goes with which numerical values? The important part is that they didn't actually bent you over and handed your serie-mates some lube. The tag you got for a grade went down . . . and so did your serie-mates. If you were both Supermen (or -women) before, you're now both Mighty Mouses. Same shit, different spelling.

I mean, I agree that it's depressing to have been building toward one of named tags and now end up with a "weak" or an "inadequate". But, yeesh, it's not exactly the end of the world.

[FrogMan]

I have not read everything about it yet, so I can't comment on what it's gonna do for our rankings, but let me tell you this is throwing one big wrench into my excel parser for my team...

FM

[FrogMan]

don't know if anybody has mentionned this yet...

6/14/2004 Improvement to HT 6.6.1
We've got a lot of feedback on the new version, and most people seem to like the changes except on one point: The team ratings split 1:2. Many users have pointed out some flaws in the new ratings. So we're making a change: We're adding sub-levels to each team rating. So for instance, instead of just "Formidable" midfield, you can have "Formidable (-)", "Formidable" or "Formidable (+)". This means that the new scale will not only be "longer" than then the old one, it will be 50% more detailed than the old one as well.

This is screwing my way of seeing the ratings even more...

FM

[OldGiants]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

I have not read everything about it yet, so I can't comment on what it's gonna do for our rankings, but let me tell you this is throwing one big wrench into my excel parser for my team...

FM

This is my biggest complaint/problem. What will happen to HAM and HF and the like? Now I have to wait for them to update to the new system before I can d/l and checkout the teams in my new division. How long will that take? Will it be done correctly? Will they bother?

Will there be other 'tweaks' announced like the +/- thing, minor adjustments that will mean major alterations to existing code in assistant programs?

Otherwise I'm happy to so what? over the changes.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Keepers are already undervalued relative to their training and availability. I really don't like them doing something that reduces their value further.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Dola, I'll discuss my take on ratings later. I think we can do it fairly seamlessly.

[Carligula]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Team ratings
Honestly, all I can think of as I read the furious complaints about this is: "PEOPLE WILL LOSE POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Could they have handled it better? Absolutely. As was mentioned, since it only effect a few teams (in relation to the number of active teams present in Hattrick), they could have just added a numerical value to the levels of Divine to distinguish between the "really" divine and the just "kinda" divine". (As an aside, my serie's champion played a Qualification game against a D.III team that put up a divine midfield which would suggest that it isn't just the National Teams and maybe the top Swedish league or just the Major League that was putting that up. At least, it *was* divine before the change brought it down to "merely" world class.)

On the other hand, all these names (poor, weak, brilliant, magnificent) are just tags to represent a hidden numerical value. Who cares if they added "righteous" and "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" to represent something above "divine" and "substandard shite" and "why bother?" to represent something under wretched or if they just changed what tags goes with which numerical values? The important part is that they didn't actually bent you over and handed your serie-mates some lube. The tag you got for a grade went down . . . and so did your serie-mates. If you were both Supermen (or -women) before, you're now both Mighty Mouses. Same shit, different spelling.

I mean, I agree that it's depressing to have been building toward one of named tags and now end up with a "weak" or an "inadequate". But, yeesh, it's not exactly the end of the world.

Word.

Although, most of these reactions seem to have been from before the +, - was added. The greater detail makes it a good change IMO - I care more about how well my team actually played than about what combination of letters is used to describe it, and it is more useful to me to see now that my LD was poor and my RD was poor(-), whereas before they were both inadequate.

[KevinNU7]

Things I love:
*Ratings split in half. I'm going to have a heart attack at Wednesday's Friendly but this will make National/U20 and MLS games way more interesting to watch.
*Stamina salary decrease. As a PM trainer I have trained stamina a lot and most of my players have excellent stamina, seeing a prcie decrease and the non-playmakers will be nice
*Better Penalty kicks. It was annoying to see the keepers stop everything
*Better chance reporting. Finally we will get to see how many chances really happen in a match! Plus watching matches will be more fun and updates will occur more often.
*Clearer confusion events. I don't thinkl there is a person out there that won't like this.
*More commone weather events. I like the fact this will happen more
*Keeper/Defender importance. Something needed to be done, this will greatly help the defender market. prices will rise. Defender trainers stop beoching
*Counter-attacks for all. Makes perfect sense
*Regional Transfers. Should even out the pricing and making transfer shopping easier
*Agent fees. Awesome! Any new player will most likely play for me for more then a season so this is perfect. Will really hurt daytraders too!

Things I don't like:
*Injured players no getting a lower salary. IMO a player ending the year injured should get less money because management is undecided on how he will play next season. I thought it was more realistic the old way.
*More commone weather events. Weather is too random. It sounds like to be effective you may have to many players for all the different weather events.
*Counter attack midfield reduciton from 10% to 7%. I have a counter-attacking team in my division so I don't like this one

Things I could care nothing about:
*intelligent fans. Never really cared before
*Less random in attack/defense. Didn't realize they had one in there at all


One the fence:
*Transfer compare. From a dealer seeker perspective, I hate it. From a transfer listers perspective I love it.
*Last Owner money. Does this mean we have to play youth pulls in order to get last order money from them in the future? Or are they consider as being on your team "forever" even though they haven't played a game?

Edit: Had a typo in there.

[DukeRulesMAB]

Count me in with daed on both TSI And the new team ratings.

TSI - Even after the grace period, all you have to do to convert TSI to dollar is add 3 zeros to the end. Now I know we're all lazy, but c'mon, we're complaining about this?

Team Ratings - Amen...no ones ratings went down in reality at all. My one complaint about this is that the new ratings were much less decriptive than the old ones, and they've fixed that, it would appear. In fact, the new ratings are more descriptive, and thus are better by my eye. It simply doesn't matter to me whether I'm getting supernatural (14) in the old system or solid in the new. Same effect on the match engine.

Of course, we're now going to have to re-write the NSI forumla.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wednesday

Dola, I'll discuss my take on ratings later. I think we can do it fairly seamlessly.

I know we'll be able to do it in some way, now I'm more worried about having a consensus among ratings makers. I mean before HT6.6, HATStats was the reference, was easy to compute and you could mention that to anyone who knew HATStats and they'd know the range. Now, you might say the range is simply divided by two, but how do you handle the (-) and the (+)???

I'm thinking the exact value should be the old numeric, the (-) should be 0.333 under the old value, and the (+) should be .333 above it. For example, weak is 4, weak(-) would be 3.667, and weak (+) would be 4.333... But will everybody else see it that way? Still food for thoughts I guess...

FM

[YoSoySean]

my ET/mythical/formid attack is now a excellent/formid-/inad

[DukeRulesMAB]

A couple comments on KevinNU's post...

- I think you have the keeper/defense stuff backwards. It's defense trainers who win here.

- 100% agree with your concerns over last club money, especially for youth pulls. Anyone have an answer there?

[Alf]

FM : the ratings discussion is hot on the CHPP conference.

[saintjo]

Originally Posted by DukeRulesMAB

A couple comments on KevinNU's post...

- I think you have the keeper/defense stuff backwards. It's defense trainers who win here.

yeah, keepers are less important. defense trainers (like me) will stop "beoching" because now you have to buy our players instead of just 1 stud keeper

[Alf]

dola, I just hit titanic midfield on week 14 and now it reads excellent (-)

[KevinNU7]

Sorry, that was a typo

[Carligula]

Originally Posted by Alf

FM : the ratings discussion is hot on the CHPP conference.

Wouldn't it be easy to keep everything in cardinal numbers?

passable(-) = 17
passable = 18
passable(+) = 19

and divide everything by 3 to scale it back to the old system?

[Alf]

Carligula, I am thing doing something like this for France. The spanish guy agrees too. We need to see if Mr Hatstats agrees or not.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Alf

FM : the ratings discussion is hot on the CHPP conference.

Keep us/me posted on what will be the consensus with Griggle or anyboyd running the big rankings/ratings sites.

Yes, it would probably be easier to go the way Carligula said, but I like making things tough on myself

Also, that way, a disastrous (-) would gives a flat zero, while my way, a disastrous (-) would be 0.667... Whichever becomes the standard we'll adapt...

FM

[KevinNU7]

The more I read the bitching in the conferences the more I think divine+20 would be better then divine(+)

[Alf]

disastrous (-) would be something between 0 and 0.333

[vex]

My 47 NSI makes me quite sad.