OT- What's wrong with these deals (computer stuff)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Yes, it's another installment of "Jon knows just enough to be a danger to himself and others"

Two opportunities, one hardware & one service, I'm looking for people to poke holes in the deals (other than the ones I've already found). Just consider it a chane to poke a slightly injured animal with a stick without any guilt attached.

1) Found a computer that caught my eye.
The primary purpose of the p.c. is to provide a higher powered option for more resource intensive games (CM, FBCB,TEW, etc). Secondary purpose is a slow transition of work processes to a newer p.c., and ultimately phase out my primary home office p.c. (PIII 850mhz, 128MB Ram, 40 GB HD).

• Compaq Presario SR1033WM-B Computer with a Compaq CV7500 17" CRT monitor
• 80 GB Ultra DMA Harddrive
• 512 MB DDR-SDRAM with up to 64 MB allocated to video memory
• Integrated Intel Extreme Graphics with up to 64 MB shared video memory
• 128 K secondary-level cache
• CD-RW/DVD-ROM Combo Drive 48x24x16x48
• 9-in-1 Memory Card Reader
• High speed V.92 56K flex modem
• Integrated 10/100 Base-T networking interface
• Presario USB powered analog speakers
• Available slots: 2 PCI; Available external ports: 5 USB 2.0 - 1 serial - 1 parallel; Available bays: one 5.25"
• Software Included: Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition, Microsoft Works,
• Price: $598

Pros (as I seem them)
-- Price is in the range of my budget for this purchase
-- it's at a traditional "brick-and-mortar" retail store, no buying it sight unseen from the 'net. I could also have it running in a matter of 2-3 hours from leaving my front door with checkbook in hand
-- 4x my current RAM, 3x my current processor
-- off the rack, meaning I can open the box, set it up & use it.
-- one of the very few 512MB RAM p.c.'s I've found at retail in this price range
-- Provides spare monitor for future use

Cons (as I see them)
-- It's from Comcrap (which I've actually had pretty fair luck with personally, but I think that's been a function of good luck so far)
-- paying for a monitor I don't really need/want
-- is XP Home not XP Pro (but I'm not sure that matters for my needs)
-- "integrated graphics"/"shared video tends to suck AFAIK (I don't play games other than text-sims, so I'm not sure if this really matters)
-- Single CD/DVD, not double
-- no floppy drive
-- not pre-configured for wireless internet (not a big deal now, but maybe someday ...)

Okay, you know what I want to do with it, you know what it has -- am I overlooking something obvious that makes this a bad deal?

2) Upgrading my DSL service
I'm currently a BellSouth Fast Access customer, the only viable DSL provider in my area. It's hardwired to a single desktop p.c., I've been very happy with the service. Goal: Upgrade to multi-pc simultaneous web access. SWMBO has pretty much made it clear that this should be my top technology priority. And sooner rather than later, if you get my drift.

BellSouth now offers "HomeNetworking Plus" -- basically, you pay $149 for their modem-router-firewall-All-In-One unit, and then pay $10 more/month than my current rate. You then have up to 4 simultaneous connections.

After talking with their tech support (which has always been very good for me), I'm very confident that I can handle setting up a wired multi-user connection,utilizing my existing telephone wiring. It'd be three p.c.'s, my desktop, my son's desktop, and an as-yet-but-soon-purchased new laptop for my wife. I'd have to add a couple of phone jacks to give her more options about where in the house physically to connect, but that's no biggie to get done.

Now here's where it gets trickier -- there's also a wireless option that, according to tech support, will handle both hardwired (the 2 desktops) and a wireless (her forthcoming laptop). But I did get conflicting answers about whether there's an extra hardware element to that scenario (sales said yes, a separate router for the wireless, tech support said no, the wireless A-In-1 unit will handle the hardwired (my desktop), the telephone jack wired (my son's desktop) and the wireless connection for the laptop without adding anything else to the puzzle.

Wired pros
1) I'm pretty sure I can handle the setup with a very minimum of muss, fuss, and bother
2) See #1

Wired cons
1) SWMBO gets limited to 1-2 areas for access ... and that limitation is pretty much on my head, can't blame the technology

Wireless pros
1) SWMBO gets to sit on the bed & hit the net with her laptop ... which would be a plus in her eyes

Wireless cons
1) I'm not sure if I'll run into one or more problems that I'll just lump together under "configuration issues"
2) I'm not sure whether I'm adding additional costs/equipment going this route
3) If there's no additional hardware, I'm worried that the 2nd desktop (my son's) will be the one that has the problem ... and I really don't want to cut him out of the 'net loop just because I'm a techno-klutz.

And, as a related item -- can someone please tell me what retail chain stocks IBM ThinkPads? I can find 'em on a few websites, can find 'em on IBM's site naturally, but both me & SWMBO are pretty adamant about "I want to see & touch the computer" before buying one. The only retailer I can find with them at all is Office Depot & I discovered last night that they are "web only", they don't stock them in the physical stores anymore. If she could just find one that's in an actual store, that'd probably be the final piece to the new laptop puzzle (looking at, IIRC, the R40 model).

Thanks in advance for any help,advice,comments,
Jon

[GrantDawg]

Jon, contrary to popular belief, you can set up a wireless network using Bellsouth without shelling out the extra dough to them (saving you the monthly fee). If your interested, PM me and I'll talk to you about it.

On the computer, what is the proccessor (I didn't see that)? And yes, that Intel video chip sucks, but you can get a better videocard for under $100.

[RendeR]

what GD said, go wireless, make sure the laptop has a wireless NIC in it, your desktops can be wired directly to the wireless router as well as having the laptop connecting wirelessly.

don't fall for paying the extra costs to those stupid companies for multiple PC's on one access line. if all else fails simply add a second NIC to your machine and run a line from it to a hub for the other pc's in the house, this avoids the trouble of the service provider checking MAC addresses since every connection will appear to be coming from your machine.

[Desnudo]

It's an Intel Celeron 2.8 Mhz. If all you play is text sims, the graphics card has little to do with performance. That price seems about right for what you get.

The only holes I'd poke in are about the RAM. it is that you ideally want 1024 RAM these days as XP is a real resource hog, especially if you play text sims. You can get by on 512K or upgrade to 1024 easily enough though. RAM does have different speeds too, just like the processor.

[GrantDawg]

Don't get a celeron. Shell out the extra few bucks on a P4 or buy a AMD at the same price.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Thanks for all the feedback so far, several good things in here, lemme see if I can work my way through some of them with the (inevitable) additional questions they lead to:

On the computer, what is the proccessor (I didn't see that)?

Doh, I can't believe I omitted that from my otherwise epic length post. Desnudo got it right though, it's a Celeron 2.8 -- as for trading up to a better processor, that hasn't been an option I've found at retail in the area, at least not at 512MB Ram or more & in this price range. Interesting to note here that I (mentally & for whatever unknown reason) would have had a preferred pecking order of: P4, Celron, AMD instead of P4, AMD, Celeron.

Desnudo said

The only holes I'd poke in are about the RAM. it is that you ideally want 1024 RAM these days as XP is a real resource hog, especially if you play text sims. You can get by on 512K or upgrade to 1024 easily enough though.

I agree. Unfortunately, what I'm finding is that preconfigured 1024 RAM comes with a much higher pricetag at retail (if you can find it at all), usually due to additional bells & whistles upgrades that I really don't need.

A couple of other things in the thread probably require me to admit point blank that I don't like to crack cases myself. Actually, that's understating it -- I'm virtually phobic about it. I've done it, even had a class or two about doing it, and actually understand at least vaguely what I'm doing. But I absolutely hate doing it. We're talking about it being right up there with my fear of heights, complete with palm sweats, nausea, the shakes, a true physical reaction to an intense psychological block. So if/when you notice that I back away from some relatively simple DIY project, maybe you understand why.

The other things that are driving me in this situation are time & ease. I know, beyond any reasonable doubt, that I can get a better deal by going somewhere other than traditional retail. I've done that with one of the office desktops & got a pretty good bang for my buck & have been quite satisfied with the performance. But ... that takes time. And, especially with the gaming-primary p.c., if I don't get this done in the next 24-48 hours, it probably won't happen at all for at least several months.

We're about to hit one of our two "busy season" with work (pretty much 1 phone call away from 6-12 weeks of hell hitting high gear) and taking a day or so to: set up a new p.c., get the VKM switch thingy set up, quite a bit of rearranging of the computer cabinet just to make things fit, etc.etc.etc., well ... it just won't happen.
On the other hand, if I've got that part done, then I'll at least be able to steal a little time here & a little time there to enjoy it, plus will have it as a nice carrot ready to enjoy when busy season ends.

Yeah, I know -- fools rush in, and usually pay more for less in the process, but that's one of the choices I gotta make.

Render said

what GD said, go wireless, make sure the laptop has a wireless NIC in it, your desktops can be wired directly to the wireless router as well as having the laptop connecting wirelessly.

That's very reassuring, about hardwired & wireless being a doable combination. That's a major worry off my mind for that part of the project. (FTR, the whole game computer & multi-access DSL projects are technically unrelated. In reality though, they're at least somewhat related by the notion that I can do the game computer largely guilt free if I handle the internet wants of SWMBO at the same time).

Dang. Right about now, I'm remembering clearly why I avoid doing a lot of the techno things I want/consider -- it's like a frickin' job to me when I get into this stuff.

Thanks for the help & the support guys, I do appreciate it (even if I do continue to fret, bitch, and moan).

[dacman]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

...512K ....

Not trying to pick on you Desnudo, but this is quickly becoming a pet peeve of mine. It's MB or M or hell Megs if you want. The days of 512K are long, long gone.

Edit: I've seen many a professional techie make the same mistake and I think that's what irks me about it.

[Samdari]

If you do not play 3d games a lot, you are right, the integrated graphics do not mean that much to you. The integrated chip will handle 2d just fine. What it will affect though is your memory. You really have 64MB less memory compared to a system with a video card due to that much being allocated as video memory.

One big disadvantage to this system is the lack of upgrade/expandability. You cannot add a HD (no 3.5" bay) and it looks like you could not add an AGP card. Another is the Celeron. People will debate AMD/Pentium until they are blue in the face, but one thing that is certain - Celeron is vastly inferior to both. Compared to a real processor operating at the same speed, the Celeron operates much more slowly. In fact, I am not sure that this processor is even an upgrade for you.

[Samdari]

FYI - I just 'built' a machine at adamant computers (who I have purchased a system from before, and been satisfied with their quality/service) that would perform equally/better to the compaq you describe above. It would not have the monitor you would not need, and there would be shipping costs/delay, but it cost only $442.17. I am sure you could find someone to build a system for you with comparable specs for a similar price, if you don't like the idea of ordering on the net.

Adamant-B410 Value Barebone with Integrated Video (Beige)
AMD Athlon Barebones Series
Tower, Lite-On LT760, 250W ATX, 2USB Ports
Motherboard, Asus A7V8X-MX SE for Athlon XPs, VIA KM400 chipset
Athlon-XP 2500+, 333MHz FSB Retail with Heat sink and fan, 3 year Mfr warranty
512MB PC2700 DDR memory, Kingston
HDD, IBM, 80.0GB, UDMA/100, 7200RPM
Built-in 3D AGP Video Card
CD-RW/DVD, Lite-ON, 48x-CDR, 24x-RW, 48x-CD, 16x-DVD, Int, Silver Color
Built-in 3D PCI Sound Card
Built-in 10/100BASE-T Ethernet Card
Keyboard, Liteon, USB, Beige Color
Mouse, Lite-ON, Optical Wheel
1 Year Parts and Labor Warranty

EDIT: Updated to include the lowest rated 333 FSB athlon, and the $15 price increase.

[jeff061]

Yeah only thing i was going to nitpick on was the video. But if you are playing mostly text sports games its fine.

I don't even think you need 1gb of ram as much as you think you may. More RAM would be a benefit for the long term more than now.

Celeron is a budget line, but it is not THAT much slower. If it gets you a cheap system, and thats what you are looking for, it works out fine. It certainly is a massive upgrade to an 800.

AMD's are bar none better . But they are both good, and if you have a good deal there is no reason to shy away from one or the other.

[BishopMVP]

Only suggestion I have is that as long as you're going for 512MB RAM, make sure you get one 512MB thing instead of 2 256MB ones. Then you can easily upgrade to 1024MB when/if you need it.

[sabotai]

80 GB Ultra DMA Harddrive

Is this a 7200RPM hard drive? If it's not, you'll get low performance out of it. RAM and Processor speed are not the only things that effect how "fast" your computer is. Processor cache size and hard drive speed play more of a role that most people realize. For text sims (that do a lot of file I/O, meaning all of them), the hard drive speed will have a noticable effect. DO not buy a system with a hard drive that's not 7200RPM

512 MB DDR-SDRAM with up to 64 MB allocated to video memory

As someone else pointed out, this really turns out to not be 512 MB since 64MB of it will be allocated to video. I think, though, you can change this in the BIOS. But unless you can change it, you have to think of this as 448 MB of RAM.

Available slots: 2 PCI; Available external ports: 5 USB 2.0 - 1 serial - 1 parallel; Available bays: one 5.25"

No AGP slot. If you end up deciding to get a graphics card at some point (they do serve more of a purpose than just 3d graphics, such dual-montior support, the popular AIW ATI cards that can turn your computer into a TiVO like machine, etc.) Well, you won't be able to get them. You'll have to get a onlder, PCI card...and then, why bother?

Also only an extra 5.25 slot. You could still get an extra hard drive (They do sell braces that let you mount it in a 5.25 drive slot), but then you can't get an extra drive.

One last thing. Never, ever, under any circumstances, buy a Compaq...I did once...never again.

[Ryan S]

I prefer AMD Processors, but if you prefer Intel, I would urge you to look at them in this order:

Pentium 4 --> Athlon 64 --> Athlon XP --> Intel Celeron

The Athlons are far better processors than the Celeron, so if you want to save a few dollars without sacrificing performance they will be perfect.

[sabotai]

It should be more like...

Pentium 4->Athlon 64->Athlon XP -----------------------------------> Intel Celeron

[Arles]

You can configure your own PC at Dell.com with a P4-2.66 (533 bus), with a better graphics card, no monitor, floppy drive, XP Pro and essentially none of the cons for about $50 more than what you are paying for the Compaq (I think there's even a $100 mail in rebate going on now).

If you aren't keen on building your own PC, customizing a Dell is probably your best option.

[pjstp20]

Didn't really read this thread thouroughly so I don't know if this has been brought up, but, if you don't want that monitor don't buy this computer because it's probably the most expensive thing included with it. Also, never,never,never get a Celeron processor. I don't care if the clock speed is faster, your P 3 is a better processor. And finally, integrated graphics are horrible. I know you don't play games but 512 MB is only slightly above average, and text based games use a lot of memory so you need every MB of that 512. Don't let your graphics steal that. A 64 MB graphics card is like 45 bucks.

[sachmo71]

So if one is looking for a custom built computer, dell.com would probably be the best option?

Samdari, is adamant a similar website, or an actual store?

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

So if one is looking for a custom built computer, dell.com would probably be the best option?

Samdari, is adamant a similar website, or an actual store?

www.adamant.com

I had a good experience with them, and liked it because I got to choose the exact components (all of them, including the namebrand MB and case/power supply) and they put it together. There are a huge number of websites who do exactly the same thing.

I mention the MB and power supply because those are places where people who sell just complete systems (like Dell) tend to save money and use custom components. Saving means you might get lower quality parts there, and custom components means it is difficult to find replacement parts.

I would actually venture to say that a place like Dell.com would be the worst place to buy a custom built computer, but one of the cheapest to buy a preconfigured box. Dell has very few options. If you want to go with a brand name, alienware or falcon northwest would be a better place to get something custom built.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Samdari

www.adamant.com

I had a good experience with them, and liked it because I got to choose the exact components (all of them, including the namebrand MB and case/power supply) and they put it together. There are a huge number of websites who do exactly the same thing.

Which is why I'm relying on my FOFC brethern to steer me to the good ones! Limited time, limited budget and all of that.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Which is why I'm relying on my FOFC brethern to steer me to the good ones! Limited time, limited budget and all of that.

I had a good experience with adamant, but am reluctant to have people spend their money on my recommendation. Here is a better overall view.

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1813.html

One place such as this to avoid is OCsystems.com. They sell overclocked systems and parts with their overclocked specs. i.e. they put a 2.4 GHz CPU into a system, overclock it to 2.8 GHz, and then sell it as a 2.8 GHz P4. I have a Radeon 9700 from them that was converted to a pro (it does operate at pro specs) through a firmware burn and overclocking. They sold it as a pro - at the time a $130 price jump.

[sachmo71]

Thanks, Samdari.