Strikeout king

Galaril · 06-30-2004, 08:27 AM

Now that I see Randy Johnson get 4000 strikeouts and take a look at the alltime strikeout list, I noticed the leader:
NOLAN RYAN...............5714

Holy shit will anyone ever break that?Or is it a "unbreakable record"?

sachmo71 · 06-30-2004, 08:36 AM

Sure someone will. When everyone get's tired of the home run record being broken, they'll try to crown a new strikeout king, and change the rules for them. Nothing draws fans like new records!

Balldog · 06-30-2004, 08:37 AM

Nolan pitched 24 years or something crazy like that, pitchers hardly make it that long anymore.

cartman · 06-30-2004, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog

Nolan pitched 24 years or something crazy like that, pitchers hardly make it that long anymore.

Yep, and he never had a major injury until he blew his arm in his final appearance. I loved watching him pitch.

Ksyrup · 06-30-2004, 09:00 AM

27 years.

oykib · 06-30-2004, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

27 years.

In a four-man rotation without relief specialists. Also, the wind down phase of his career was spent in the Astrodome, the best pitcher's park that most of us have ever seen. It was almost the Anti-Coors.

Fonzie · 06-30-2004, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog

Nolan pitched 24 years or something crazy like that, pitchers hardly make it that long anymore.

Ryan also pitched in an era when many starters (including him) would routinely log 250-300 innings per year, which helped him to rack up 300+ Ks per year. These days perhaps 1 or 2 starters will crack 250 per year, and that's going to limit career strikeout totals pretty significantly.

Lorena · 06-30-2004, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog

Nolan pitched 24 years or something crazy like that, pitchers hardly make it that long anymore.

Pitchers back in the day pitched more innings.

Lorena · 06-30-2004, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fonzie

Ryan also pitched in an era when many starters (including him) would routinely log 250-300 innings per year, which helped him to rack up 300+ Ks per year. These days perhaps 1 or 2 starters will crack 250 per year, and that's going to limit career strikeout totals pretty significantly.

Whoops, didn't read your post. Definitely agree

clintl · 06-30-2004, 09:15 AM

It's breakable under the right circumstances. It's certainly not as unbreakable as things like Cy Young's 511 wins or Jack Chesbro's 41 wins in a single season. But to be broken, it would probably have to be by a guy who has Randy Johnson-like stuff, gets to the major leagues by age 20, and pitches for 25 years. And a return to a 4-man rotation would help. Johnson got to the major leagues at an older age than the other three 4,000 K pitchers.

Ksyrup · 06-30-2004, 09:36 AM

Not to mention, Johnson piddled around for 5 years before the lightbulb went on. He wasn't particularly good until his control improved at age 29.

Senator · 06-30-2004, 09:52 AM

I heard the other day that Nolan once had a 14 inning complete game pitched with over 250 pitches in the game. The next game he pitched 168 pitches. The next game, he pitched over 200. Pretty amazing.

HornedFrog Purple · 06-30-2004, 10:45 AM

Wasn't the mound lower in the beginning of Nolan's career?

HornedFrog Purple · 06-30-2004, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Not to mention, Johnson piddled around for 5 years before the lightbulb went on. He wasn't particularly good until his control improved at age 29.

Thanks in large part to Nolan Ryan ironically.

hhiipp · 06-30-2004, 10:49 AM

You know how he pitched so long, right?

It was all in the Advil.

sovereignstar · 06-30-2004, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HornedFrog Purple

Wasn't the mound lower in the beginning of Nolan's career?

The mound was five inches higher back in 1969.

Chubby · 06-30-2004, 11:01 AM

yeah I thought they lowered it to take away some of the pitchers' advantage.

HornedFrog Purple · 06-30-2004, 11:04 AM

thanks, I had it backwards

Balldog · 06-30-2004, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

yeah I thought they lowered it to take away some of the pitchers' advantage.

I am pretty sure they did in the 90s, but then raised it back recently.

Chubby · 06-30-2004, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog

I am pretty sure they did in the 90s, but then raised it back recently.

Not that I am a great follower of baseball but I think you're thinking of their intention to lower the mound more in the 90s but it never happened. I could be wrong tho.

rkmsuf · 06-30-2004, 11:28 AM

No it was they raised it then lowered it. Then they lowered it and raised it. Get it right.

Chubby · 06-30-2004, 11:30 AM

no wonder I don't follow baseball super closely anymore

JeeberD · 06-30-2004, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oykib

In a four-man rotation without relief specialists. Also, the wind down phase of his career was spent in the Astrodome, the best pitcher's park that most of us have ever seen. It was almost the Anti-Coors.

Ummm...his final five years and 940 strikeouts came in Arlington. I'm not sure if The Ballpark was open yet at the very end, and I have no clue as to how well the ball flew in the old stadium, though...

Ryche · 06-30-2004, 12:48 PM

I thought I heard today that Johnson got to 4000 strikeouts faster than any of the guys above them in the list. It took Ryan about 7.5 seasons to go from 4000 to 5700, so maybe it just depends on how long Johnson wants to keep pitching. Can't see him continuing form more than 2 or 3 more years though.

rkmsuf · 06-30-2004, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryche

I thought I heard today that Johnson got to 4000 strikeouts faster than any of the guys above them in the list. It took Ryan about 7.5 seasons to go from 4000 to 5700, so maybe it just depends on how long Johnson wants to keep pitching. Can't see him continuing form more than 2 or 3 more years though.

his back won't hold out for more than a year or two.

henry296 · 06-30-2004, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oykib

In a four-man rotation without relief specialists. Also, the wind down phase of his career was spent in the Astrodome, the best pitcher's park that most of us have ever seen. It was almost the Anti-Coors.

Plus, I am not sure that stadium effects strike out levels, other than perhaps pitching more innings.

dawgfan · 06-30-2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

No it was they raised it then lowered it. Then they lowered it and raised it. Get it right.

Um, not sure what you're referring to here, but starting in 1969 there was enforcement of the rule that pitcher's mounds were to be no higher than 10 inches. Prior to that mounds had been as high as 15 inches. Since 1969, there have been no changes to the rules on the height of the pitcher's mound.

rkmsuf · 06-30-2004, 01:34 PM

i was referring to the repeated and confusing use of raised and lowered.

Now that I think of it I believe it went lower, lower, raise, lower, raise, raise.

oykib · 06-30-2004, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henry296

Plus, I am not sure that stadium effects strike out levels, other than perhaps pitching more innings.

It also makes a pitcher more fearless. Knowing how difficult it was to hit a ball out of the Astrodome made it much easier to pitch to dangerous hitters. But the extra innings were no small side effect, either.

Honolulu Blue · 07-01-2004, 09:52 AM

Stadiums DO affect strikeout numbers, though the effect is not very large. Stadiums with good visibility (Wrigley, Fenway) have fewer strikeouts, and stadiums with poor visibility (Shea, Astrodome) have more. Night games also affect strikeout numbers for the same reason.

Lucky Jim · 07-01-2004, 10:46 AM

I think it was a check-raise you're referring to.

06-30-2004, 09:00 AM	#5
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	27 years. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

06-30-2004, 09:36 AM	#11
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	Not to mention, Johnson piddled around for 5 years before the lightbulb went on. He wasn't particularly good until his control improved at age 29. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

06-30-2004, 09:52 AM	#12
Senator FOFC's Elected Representative Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The stars at night; are big and bright	I heard the other day that Nolan once had a 14 inning complete game pitched with over 250 pitches in the game. The next game he pitched 168 pitches. The next game, he pitched over 200. Pretty amazing. __________________ "i have seen chris simms play 4-5 times in the pros and he's very clearly got it. he won't make a pro bowl this year, but it'll come. if you don't like me saying that, so be it, but its true. we'll just have to wait until then" imettrentgreen "looking at only ten games, and oddly using a median only, leaves me unmoved generally" - Quiksand

06-30-2004, 10:45 AM	#13
HornedFrog Purple Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Worthless, Tx	Wasn't the mound lower in the beginning of Nolan's career? __________________ King of All FOFC Media!!! IHOF: Fort Worthless Fury- 2004 AOC Deep South Champions (not acknowledged via conspiracy)

06-30-2004, 11:04 AM	#18
HornedFrog Purple Hattrick Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Fort Worthless, Tx	thanks, I had it backwards __________________ King of All FOFC Media!!! IHOF: Fort Worthless Fury- 2004 AOC Deep South Champions (not acknowledged via conspiracy)

06-30-2004, 08:36 AM	#2
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	Sure someone will. When everyone get's tired of the home run record being broken, they'll try to crown a new strikeout king, and change the rules for them. Nothing draws fans like new records!

06-30-2004, 08:37 AM	#3
Balldog Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Macomb, MI	Nolan pitched 24 years or something crazy like that, pitchers hardly make it that long anymore.

06-30-2004, 09:15 AM	#10
clintl College Starter Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Davis, CA	It's breakable under the right circumstances. It's certainly not as unbreakable as things like Cy Young's 511 wins or Jack Chesbro's 41 wins in a single season. But to be broken, it would probably have to be by a guy who has Randy Johnson-like stuff, gets to the major leagues by age 20, and pitches for 25 years. And a return to a 4-man rotation would help. Johnson got to the major leagues at an older age than the other three 4,000 K pitchers.

06-30-2004, 10:49 AM	#15
hhiipp College Prospect Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: OH	You know how he pitched so long, right? It was all in the Advil.

06-30-2004, 11:01 AM	#17
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	yeah I thought they lowered it to take away some of the pitchers' advantage.

06-30-2004, 11:28 AM	#21
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	No it was they raised it then lowered it. Then they lowered it and raised it. Get it right. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

06-30-2004, 11:30 AM	#22
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	no wonder I don't follow baseball super closely anymore

06-30-2004, 12:48 PM	#24
Ryche College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Highlands Ranch, CO, USA	I thought I heard today that Johnson got to 4000 strikeouts faster than any of the guys above them in the list. It took Ryan about 7.5 seasons to go from 4000 to 5700, so maybe it just depends on how long Johnson wants to keep pitching. Can't see him continuing form more than 2 or 3 more years though. __________________ Some knots are better left untied.

06-30-2004, 01:34 PM	#28
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	i was referring to the repeated and confusing use of raised and lowered. Now that I think of it I believe it went lower, lower, raise, lower, raise, raise. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

07-01-2004, 09:52 AM	#30
Honolulu Blue Dynasty Boy Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Michigan	Stadiums DO affect strikeout numbers, though the effect is not very large. Stadiums with good visibility (Wrigley, Fenway) have fewer strikeouts, and stadiums with poor visibility (Shea, Astrodome) have more. Night games also affect strikeout numbers for the same reason.

07-01-2004, 10:46 AM	#31
Lucky Jim Mascot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Washington, DC	I think it was a check-raise you're referring to.

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