Vegas Advice

[CraigSca]

Next week will be my 4th trip to Vegas, but will be the first time I will be attending all by myself. I'm really looking forward to it as I can do what I want when I want (I will be attending a conference out there, so I'm only referring to my nights). That being said, I am looking for a little gaming advice.

First some background - I am a huge blackjack player. I'm not the best, but I know the strategies involved, have counted cards (without much success) and love the fact that the player definitely has some influence on his/her relative luck. I am not a huge poker player (I've watched a little on ESPN) and my thinking is that the player has relatively low influence on the outcome of the game when playing against the casino. Is this true? Are there any particular poker games out there that are better than others (Let it Ride, 3 card poker)?

Are there any other games out there (besides Blackjack) that afford the player some kind of strategy that can influence his winning/not winning?

Thanks!

[MrIllini]

forget the tables...spend all your dough on blow and hookers

MUCH better time

[Samdari]

The problem with blackjack is this. If you can't count cards successfully (and I can't either) then the best you can hope to do is perfect basic strategy. Once you get there (or fairly close) there really aren't any decisions to be made (they are made for you on the basic strategy card) so it becomes just like roulette or craps. No decision making, but enjoyable for the emotional ride they can take you on.

I would suggest a tamer version of MrIllini's advice - alcohol and strippers.

[Honolulu Blue]

I'm not sure what you mean by not being successful at counting cards. Do you mean you know how to count, but haven't made any money doing so? Or do you mean that you're not able to count? If it's the former, then go ahead and continue to do so; things will turn your way eventually, given enough time and money. If it's the latter, I'd junk the count and make sure you know basic stategy cold. Perfect basic strategy will get you close to even with the house, but keep in mind that casinos make lots of money from patrons who don't know basic strategy.

On poker, there are at least three types of games:

1) the video poker games, which can be found in the slot section,
2) the table games based on poker - like Let It Ride, 3 card poker, Caribbean Stud, etc., which can all be found in the table game section, and
3) the real poker games, which are in a separate room.

The video poker games range from awful to not too bad, depending on the pay table. It's far too involved to give details here, but the Web offers lots of advice.

The table poker games are all sucker games. Don't play them thinking you'll beat them; you can't in the long run.

The real poker games offer opportunity, but only if you're very good. Knowing the percentages is important, but knowing how to read players is more so - especially if you're playing in long stretches.

Good luck and have fun.

[primelord]

Well if you aren't going to play real poker you should probably stick to the black jack table as that is the best table game in terms of house edge. (If you are playing perfect basic strategy as others have mentioned.)

However if you were just wanting to try out the various other table games here are the house edges for some of the other games.

Caribbean Stud - 5.22%
Let it Ride - 3.51%
Three Card Poker - 7.28%

The three card poker edge can vary as the pay tables can be different at different casinos, but that one is the most common from what I understand. Just for reference black jack played with perfect basic strategy has a house edge of 0.62% (again some house rules can very that a bit). As you can see black jack is a much better deal.

[primelord]

HB also mentioned video poker. If you have some interest in that your best bet is to try and find a Dueces Wild machine. If you play perfect strategy on the full pay scale on a Dueces Wild machine it pays 100.76%. Jacks or Better are also good and pay 99.5%.

[primelord]

Triple Dola ,

If you are looking for information on optimal strategy for more or less any casino game or odds and house edges etc it doesn't get any better than

hxxp://wizardofodds.com

[panerd]

Play only the passline/come bets and the free odds on craps. It offers up some of the best odds in the house and you will very quickly win or lose a ton of money. No reason to grind it out for hours at a blackjack table or any other game. If you win go over to the video poker bar and pick up a hooker. If you lose go to the ATM, then the video poker bar and pick up a hooker. All in under an hour!

[Coffee Warlord]

Bah!

Join me at the $25 buy in holdem tourneys at the Luxor. There's games there, and there's games at a few other places. Poker rooms, baby!

Edit: They also got real low limit tables there, according to the website. $1/$2 holdem games for the folks like me who just want to play and have a good time.

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Edit: They also got real low limit tables there, according to the website. $1/$2 holdem games for the folks like me who just want to play and have a good time.

You should keep in mind it will be very hard to beat a $1-$2 table after tokes and the rake. The competition you face at $3-$6 and $4-$8 generally will not be much better and the affect of the rake is much less at those limits.

[primelord]

Originally Posted by panerd

Play only the passline/come bets and the free odds on craps. It offers up some of the best odds in the house and you will very quickly win or lose a ton of money. No reason to grind it out for hours at a blackjack table or any other game. If you win go over to the video poker bar and pick up a hooker. If you lose go to the ATM, then the video poker bar and pick up a hooker. All in under an hour!

The free odds in craps is the bets bet in the house. In addition to that I will argue that there is no better place to be in the entire casino than a hot craps table. Hands down the most fun you will have. However a cold crpas table can be very sobering, However if you are putting down 2x or more on your odds the house edge is better than even at the black jack table.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue

I'm not sure what you mean by not being successful at counting cards. Do you mean you know how to count, but haven't made any money doing so? Or do you mean that you're not able to count?

I'm able to count successfully,m the problem I had is that the count only RARELY was actually in my favor enough (the true count, anyway) to warrant a higher bet. It seemed like shoe after shoe after shoe I'd be spending my time counting cards (and therefore having a bit of less enjoyment) but the true count would never get to a point to justify higher betting.

Just a string of bad luck, or do other counters notice the same thing?

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by primelord

You should keep in mind it will be very hard to beat a $1-$2 table after tokes and the rake. The competition you face at $3-$6 and $4-$8 generally will not be much better and the affect of the rake is much less at those limits.

Hmm. Good point there.

'Course, then I'll just go broke faster!

[Coffee Warlord]

Dola.

And I still, after all my reading, and all my studying, cannot fathom most of the shit that goes down in craps.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by primelord

Jacks or Better are also good and pay 99.5%.

I wasn't going to say anything in this thread since I'm pretty much an "entertainment fee" sort of Vegas visitor (i.e. I don't really plan on winning, I play to minimize my losses & maximize my time spent on the floor), but as someone who plays video poker almost exclusively, I wanted to add my endorsement of Jacks or Better machines.

As you said ...

'Course, then I'll just go broke faster!

Well, that's one of the things J or B vid poker slows down, the "go broke" cycle.
If you're not generally a video poker guy, it might not be your primary activity while there, but I'd at least recommend considering this as a way to spend some time.

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Dola.

And I still, after all my reading, and all my studying, cannot fathom most of the shit that goes down in craps.

If you are trying to give yourself the best chance to make money then you don't need to know anything, but the pass line bet and backing it up with odds. Everything else on the table is a sucker bet (except the come bets with odds on them as well, but your best bet is still just the plain old passline)

With that being said the casino people at the table will always be happy to explain any of the bets to you and help you out when you come to the table. Also if you are just looking to have fun then it is probably worth it to learn some of the other bets, but from purely from an odds stand point nothing but the basic bet and backing it up with odds should be made.

[Raven Hawk]

Play some WMS/Williams slot machines and support my employer. Better yet, tell the casino how much you love our games so they will buy more.

http://www.wmsgaming.com/games.htm

[tategter]

Vegas wasn't built on winners. Go see a show. Visit a hooker. Try to get on taxicab confessions. At least you won't be throwing your money away.

[Robbiero67]

Coffee Warlord,

Watch out for the Luxor $25 dollar tourneys. They are structured very poorly with only 15-20 min. between blinds, and an "alternate" system which allows a new player to enter in place of a busted one. Not a good thing if you take a shot(b/c with the blinds raising so quickly its pretty much a crapshoot), miss, and are left depleted after just a few hands and in comes a new guy with full stack after you have weathered the storm for a little while. I guess I just have a problem with a tourney that adds players as it goes (w/o paying for the blinds), just doesn't seem right to me. Set a time or cap on # of players and start the tourney, if someone who signed up isn't there...blind them, and if there isn't room then, well, there's always next time.

The Orleans, Golden Nugget, Sahara, Palms, and many others spread tourneys that are much better put together (i.e., longer time between blinds, re-buys and add-ons sometimes possible...but not alternates, much better staff, etc.). There are also some places off strip and non-dowtown, such as Sam's Town Casino, which spreads a nice tourney for a relatively cheap amount.

[MrIllini]

one way to make some dough if you can sit through the dullness of it, is playing thirds on roulette

place equal bets on two of the three thirds bets...they pay 3-1, so if you bet $5 each, and one hits, you get $15...making $5 each time it hits

of course, you will have the occasional complete miss, but that's inevitable...the key is to stick with whichever two thirds you choose throughout, once you start switching, the odds go down considerably

playing this way will give you some of the best odds in the house as well

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Robbiero67

Coffee Warlord,

Watch out for the Luxor $25 dollar tourneys. They are structured very poorly with only 15-20 min. between blinds, and an "alternate" system which allows a new player to enter in place of a busted one.

Ew. Good to know there. To *hell* with that. I'll prolly just wind up playing a normal table for awhile somewhere. After all the talk here, I'll prolly actually try playing craps for once.

[RPI-Fan]

the key is to stick with whichever two thirds you choose throughout, once you start switching, the odds go down considerably

Huh????? That doesn't make sense to me.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by primelord

In addition to that I will argue that there is no better place to be in the entire casino than a hot craps table. Hands down the most fun you will have.

Strongly seconded. If you play at a hot craps table and end up losing a few bucks at the end of the night, you'll still feel like you had your money's worth. I didn't play craps the first time I went to Vegas and I'm kicking myself now.

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally Posted by MrIllini

one way to make some dough if you can sit through the dullness of it, is playing thirds on roulette

place equal bets on two of the three thirds bets...they pay 3-1, so if you bet $5 each, and one hits, you get $15...making $5 each time it hits

of course, you will have the occasional complete miss, but that's inevitable...the key is to stick with whichever two thirds you choose throughout, once you start switching, the odds go down considerably

playing this way will give you some of the best odds in the house as well

There's lots of good advice in this thread; this isn't it. Betting this way will yield the same 5.26% house edge that every other roulette bet has.

Thanks for answering my question Craig. It's true that in shoes the opportunities to bet more than the minimum are rare - first because you're facing a significant disadvantage from the start, and second because the deck penetration prevents you from getting to see the last few cards where you could REALLY clean up.

There are a couple of things you can do and you can choose your preferred option:

1) Play a single or double deck game. The edge isn't as high, and though the penetration will probably be worse (unless you're really lucky), you'll likely see more positive edge situations.

The last time I checked all the best single deck games were downtown, but you'll want to do some research on this.

2) Find the best penetration you can get. A casino that cuts off 1 deck from a 6 deck shoe is much better than one that cuts off 3 decks.

Penetration changes from day to day and from dealer to dealer. I'd recommend scouting around for the best deal when you get to Vegas.

[KevinNU7]

Originally Posted by MrIllini

one way to make some dough if you can sit through the dullness of it, is playing thirds on roulette

place equal bets on two of the three thirds bets...they pay 3-1, so if you bet $5 each, and one hits, you get $15...making $5 each time it hits

of course, you will have the occasional complete miss, but that's inevitable...the key is to stick with whichever two thirds you choose throughout, once you start switching, the odds go down considerably

playing this way will give you some of the best odds in the house as well

The odds don't change. Each spin of the wheel is completely seperate of the previous spin so therefore picking a new group of thirds won't change the odds.

[MrIllini]

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue

There's lots of good advice in this thread; this isn't it. Betting this way will yield the same 5.26% house edge that every other roulette bet has.

well, I must be one lucky SOB then

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh. If I wasn't subscribing myself to a strict anti internet rule whilst in Vegas, I'd give ya'll updates from the gambling pits. You will have to settle for my tales of drunken debauchery once I get home.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by MrIllini

one way to make some dough if you can sit through the dullness of it, is playing thirds on roulette

place equal bets on two of the three thirds bets...they pay 3-1, so if you bet $5 each, and one hits, you get $15...making $5 each time it hits

of course, you will have the occasional complete miss, but that's inevitable...the key is to stick with whichever two thirds you choose throughout, once you start switching, the odds go down considerably

playing this way will give you some of the best odds in the house as well

Just to echo... please don't listen to this.

The "thirds" bets in roulette pay 3 for 1, not 3 to 1 -- meaning that they realy pay what we would more commonly say as 2 to 1.

We can even work through the math, starting with this supposition:

place equal bets on two of the three thirds bets...they pay 3-1, so if you bet $5 each, and one hits, you get $15...making $5 each time it hits

Okay - let's say we play this game 38 times on an Amercian roulette table, and we get the ideally simple distribution of results -- each number hits exactly once.

38 plays = $380 spent
12 wins on first "third" bet = 12 X 15 = $180
12 wins on second "third" bet = 12 x 15 = $180

Money out: $380
Money in: $360

These are the exact same odds you get with all the "inside" bets in roulette... the house gets is exact same cut. And PLEASE don't start buying into superstitious nonsense like it's good/bad luck to change your bets over time -- the little ball doesn't "know" where you placed your bets, it's just following the laws of physics.


Good luck, stick to better games than roulette. Mr. Illini's first bit of advice was probably better, actually.