OT - still more Neverwinter Nights

[QuikSand]

I have been working on a NWN character for a littl while, and thought I'd send out two things to those of you who have played this game a bit. I'm looking for thoughts on further developing my character, and I'm willing to help out if anyone is looking for a new place to play NWN.

#1 - I have no experience with high-level characters in NWN, since I have been playing exclusively online with server vaulted setups. But I now have a character who is advancing nicely -- and I'm open to suggestions on how to keep developing him.

My character is a human sorceror, primarily. I took one level of ranger early on, to give him a bit of fighting skill (and ability with weapons and armor). But now he is 1st pevel ranger, and 18th level sorceror. So, I now have access to the whole universe of sorceror spells, since it's 18th level where you gain access to the 9th level spellbook.

At this point, my character is mostly a fighter, believe it or not -- I have a strong battery of defensive spells to make him very resistent in combat, and as a ranger he can comfortably use two melee weapons -- I have two powerful daggers that he wields very effectively in close combat. I use my attacking spells to either wipe out large groups of opponents, or to "soften up" tough combat foes... but am frequently getting in close quarters to use my daggers for 15-20 HP damage each, with 2-3 strikes per turn. It works pretty well, all told.

So - my question is this -- what do I do next? Should I start taking levels in something else? Go back to ranger, and build on my combat skills? Or keep on with the sorcerer levels, adding spell slots and incrementally more power with each new level there? I'm leaning toward the last... but I'm not sure whether I'd be better off after 10 more levels with Ran1/Sor28 or Ran11/Sor18... or even Ran1/Sor18/Cle10 or somesuch. Any thoughts there?



As an aside... if anyone is interested in joining a new NWL server and getting a bit of an "inheritance" - I have been toting around a few "packages" of items for a new character. I have some stuff set up for a good rogue, some stuff for a good fighter/paladin, and some stuff for a good monk. This server seems to be pretty laden with good "gear" and lends itself to a frialy rapidly-developing character progression... so if that sounds liek your cup of tea, drop me a line and I'll try to meet up with you sometime.

The serves is titled "Redemption" and it is derived from (and named for) a long-standing multi-user dungeon called "Redemption mud." You can locate it (usually) listed under "Action PW" in the GameSpy internet listings. Thye sem to bounce around their direct connect locations a bit - so I usually just look them up there.


In any case - if this sounds like your cup of tea, I can help give you a leg up. (You can even make reference to the far away land "Effoeffci" in your personal statement, like I do)

[Fritz]

you kind of screwed the pooch if you want to dev the ranger levels, which you should do in the first 20.

What are your stats?

[QuikSand]

Yes, I realize that's basically true, Fritz. My original goal was just to play a spell-casting character, since I really never have in NWN before.

But I find myself, even with the spellcasting, still operating frequently as more or less a "tank" character -- I can cast spells like greater stoneskin on myself and my summoned companions, and with my gear I have AC of about 30 and around 130 HP. I think I attack with a +14 bonus with my first weapon -- so I'm fairly effective in combat, and pretty tough to damage.

On this server, at least, many of the higher level foes are super-high HP monsters -- there's a battlefield full of orcs with about 150 HP each, and there are mighty goblins with 15-200 HP, and a variety of monsters with similar skills. I can hit them with my toughest damage spells and whack them for 60-80 points, but they still need to be "tenderized."

Thing is -- I don't think I've really lost all that much in terms of fighting skills. Sure, if I were a well-developed ranger, I'd have more attacks and better bonuses to hit -- but I wouldn't be able to defend myself anywhere near as well as I can with my spellbook. Up against the Goblin King, who must have 500 HP, it's pointless to just try to outduke him -- you have to fight him with superior defenses as well.


So, you think I should stick with sorcerer from here on out? I have to read up a little about these "epid" levels, and see what exactly I'd get for SOR 21+... I assume I keep gaining spell slots, and maybe the ability to use metamagic on my high level spels, which would be nice. I also have yet to use any of the Bigby's hand spells, which seem powerful, too.

[Bee]

What about switching to a prestige class?

[QuikSand]

I'm not sure what prestige classes I might have a good fit for... I haven't managed my feats with anything in mind, so I'd probably have to wait a few more levels anyway. But I suppose something like Shadowdancer might be interesting. I'm the wrong race for an arcane archer, which might have been good as well. I dunno what else fits. I can't do assassin, since I am of CG alignment.

[Fritz]

After 20th level, you are going to get a +1 bonus to hit per level no matter your class. all being a ranger will do is give you more HP. if that is the case, you would be better off as a fighter to gain a ton of feats, as a theif where you would get sneak attack and ton of skills, or as a bard, where you get even more spell and an array of skills. IMHO anyway.

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Yes, I realize that's basically true, Fritz. My original goal was just to play a spell-casting character, since I really never have in NWN before.

But I find myself, even with the spellcasting, still operating frequently as more or less a "tank" character -- I can cast spells like greater stoneskin on myself and my summoned companions, and with my gear I have AC of about 30 and around 130 HP. I think I attack with a +14 bonus with my first weapon -- so I'm fairly effective in combat, and pretty tough to damage.

On this server, at least, many of the higher level foes are super-high HP monsters -- there's a battlefield full of orcs with about 150 HP each, and there are mighty goblins with 15-200 HP, and a variety of monsters with similar skills. I can hit them with my toughest damage spells and whack them for 60-80 points, but they still need to be "tenderized."

Thing is -- I don't think I've really lost all that much in terms of fighting skills. Sure, if I were a well-developed ranger, I'd have more attacks and better bonuses to hit -- but I wouldn't be able to defend myself anywhere near as well as I can with my spellbook. Up against the Goblin King, who must have 500 HP, it's pointless to just try to outduke him -- you have to fight him with superior defenses as well.


So, you think I should stick with sorcerer from here on out? I have to read up a little about these "epid" levels, and see what exactly I'd get for SOR 21+... I assume I keep gaining spell slots, and maybe the ability to use metamagic on my high level spels, which would be nice. I also have yet to use any of the Bigby's hand spells, which seem powerful, too.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Fritz

After 20th level, you are going to get a +1 bonus to hit per level no matter your class.

This is the big point. I really wasn't thinking about this particular crossroads when I started off with this character... I guess I'll just continue on as a sorceres, and keep gaining juice with my spellcasting.

[Daimyo]

Roughly how many hours of game play did it to take to get to that level? I really enjoyed playing in Avlis but eventually was frustrated by the painfully slow character development and gave up the game completely. In games like NWN I usually get the most enjoyment out of developing my character and learning new tricks.

[QuikSand]

Well, there is certainly a real investmnt to get to a high level... but to get to an intermediate, playable level, you'd find this server to me much more accommodating.

At Redemption, there is a "newbie" castle area, where characters who have not yet reached 3rd level may hunt down weak foes for artificially high XP. Once you reach level three, you can't go back there. It's a pretty ood way to get past the "super-weakling" stages that make many areas tough to start up with. (I understand this approach is reasonably common, I just haven't seen it)

After that, there are plenty of things for a 3-5 level character to do, and the XP setings are much more "normal" than at Avlis. So, you kill a skeleton, you get something like 10 XP, not 1 XP. You kill a troll, you get 80, not 4. It's much easier to rack up a few thousand this way than at Avlis, where is was deliberately very, very slow.


The biggest issue with this server is the presence of quite a lot of powerful gear around. Many of the organized monster areas result in defeating a "leader" of some sort, and getting his good stuff. So, lots of characters run around with powerful weapons, armor, etc -- even low-level characters. If your interest is developing a mature character fairly quickly, this is good news ... if you are offended by the notion of some 2nd level characters walking around with +5 armor and a tough sword - then maybe it isn't for you. (I guess they have the option to use "item evel restrictions" and choose not to here or in most places) I at first recoiled at this, but now I just see it as a "different aproach."


If you (or any FOFCer) anted to try to get a charcter up to speed fairly quickly, I could lend a hand with some gear and take you on a few advantures -- I suspect we could get a new character up to level seven or so in one evening. At that point, you'd be pretty well set to start running around and kiling stuff on your own.

[Travis]

Hmmmm, you may have a taker here. Been putting off getting the last expansion for a while, but I think this may turn the trick. Is there much in the way of using 'character' in this world? Or is it pretty much straight up as far as good vs evil decisions? Just curious as that would really determine what kind of character I'd like to play in that environment.

[Fritz]

In pen and paper I think there would be more reason for you to stay in class, but epic level spellcasting in NWN is not that good. There are also no spellcasting prestige classes. I can;t recall if you can give yourself spell levels above 9. If you can't, I don't know that leveling far beyond 20 in this class will do much for you. Perhaps a powergamer will check in with some good strategies.

Were it me, I would consider multiclassing with a theif. Your HP would have the potential for an extra 2 per level, I think you feat quicker, and the flood of skill points can be put to good use (tumble for one). The big thing you would get would be the 1d6 every other level via sneak attack, which you could take advantage of if a summoned creature exposed an enemy flank. By 10th level, this is already 5d6 extra, assuming the creature can be sneak attacked at all. When mated with epic feats, the thief has some strong attacks that would complement your current character. Of course, if your dex is >= 10, you may wish to consider a different approach.

Originally Posted by QuikSand

This is the big point. I really wasn't thinking about this particular crossroads when I started off with this character... I guess I'll just continue on as a sorceres, and keep gaining juice with my spellcasting.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Travis

Hmmmm, you may have a taker here. Been putting off getting the last expansion for a while, but I think this may turn the trick. Is there much in the way of using 'character' in this world? Or is it pretty much straight up as far as good vs evil decisions? Just curious as that would really determine what kind of character I'd like to play in that environment.

The server is faily thin on deep role-playing, though there are "clans" that correspond to good, evil, and nautral -- each has its own well-defended area of the server lands. I have accidentally strolled into the evil clan's domain once, and got summarily pummeled by their guard goons.

So - nothing really all that complicated - feel free to play whatever style of character you like, I'd say.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Were it me, I would consider multiclassing with a theif. Your HP would have the potential for an extra 2 per level, I think you feat quicker, and the flood of skill points can be put to good use (tumble for one). The big thing you would get would be the 1d6 every other level via sneak attack, which you could take advantage of if a summoned creature exposed an enemy flank. By 10th level, this is already 5d6 extra, assuming the creature can be sneak attacked at all. When mated with epic feats, the thief has some strong attacks that would complement your current character. Of course, if your dex is >= 10, you may wish to consider a different approach.

I like playing rogues in pen&paper D&D, but have yet to really develop one in NWN. I play solo for the most part, and my opportunities to get a "sneak attack" are therefore a bit limited. But this sounds more appealing to me than anythign else I have considered.

In the old D&D, you had to be neutral or evil to play a thief... are there any such limits for the current rogue class? That could be pretty interesting.

[Fritz]

No limits.

Playing a solo theif does take away the sneak attack, but you are not solo with the summons and familiar. May have to move to a range weapon though.

[QuikSand]

I do have a pretty effective bow, very good dexterity, and can afford a practically unlimited supply of enabled arrows. So, my range attack is fine.

Intriguing...

[Fritz]

another side benifit, is that a theif with good use magic dev will allow you to use class specific items that you do not have levels in, so monks robes and cleric scrolls.

[Travis]

If you're considering that route, what about a prestige class (such as shadow dancer) or the good old invisibility potions that will enable you to be a tad more sneaky, you're still catching your target flat footed, which I believe would still give you that sneak attack, could be wrong though.

[QuikSand]

My current character’s specifics:

Abilities, including effects of various gear:
STR 18 (+4)
DEX 20 (+5)
CON 17 (+3)
WIS 10
INT 10
CHR 19 (+4)

Main weapon: ceremonial dagger
Attack +15/+10
1d4 + 4 damage, +1d8 electrical, +1d8 cold, +2 piercing
Offhand weapon: ceremonial dagger, +15, same damage

Ranged weapon: hunter’s bow (grants +3 DEX bonus)
Attack +21/+16
1d8 + 4 damage, +1d6 fire (or other addition from arrows)
Rapid shot skill allows extra attack per round

Boots provide haste – including an extra attack per round

Saving throws:
Fortitude 15
Reflex 15
Will 15

Armor Class: 30
Regenerates 4 points per round, from various gear
Damage reduction +5, soak 10 damage

Hit Points: 139


When entering combat, I usually run a defense/buff regimen in advance:
Extended Cat’s Grace (DEX +1-4)
Extended Bull’s Strength (ST +1-4)
Improved Invisibility
Greater Stoneskin
Spell Mantle

[Fritz]

I shouldnt be reading this. Now I want to play NWN, but I have War in the Pacific to digest.

[Travis]

Hmmm, you as a ranged attacker would be nasty, considering you'd bump up to 4 attacks per round. Does the potion wear off once you've attacked, or stay in effect? Because if it stays in effect, DAMN.

[Chas in Cinti]

Quik.

In the newer editions, I'm sure you know, that the "Thief" is now a classic "Rogue"... takes a bit of the edge off and alows for the ambiguous alignment. I'm not sure I'm a fan of all the dummying down of D&D the past few years... but then again, I haven't played regularly in probably 8 years... (But still buy a lot of the errata... I'm such a dork.)

I have more games (board and RPG, not PC) than I'll ever play... and haven't even belonged to a Gamer's Group for years.

Panzer Grenadier anyone?



Regards,
Chas

[sabotai]

I didn't look it up (if your character qualified or not) because...well, I'm lazy, but have you thought of putting some levels into Red Dragon Disciple? You say you tank with the character, so it would be logical with the Disciple's armor and STR bonuses.

[daedalus]

The qualification according to Bioware:

To qualify as a red dragon disciple, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria:
Class: Sorcerer or Bard
Skills: 8 Ranks in Lore
Tip: Only sorcerers or bards can become a dragon disciple -- either class is equally suited.

[daedalus]

Given your character's wisdom and intelligence score, either/both Rogue or Red Dragon Disciple sounds like good choice. Even fighter might be. Depending on which direction you're taking it, I suppose. For prestige class, Champion of Torm sounds like yet another decent possibility for a melee character.

[QuikSand]

The Champion of Torm prestige class sounds intriguing... sort of a semi-paladin, with a few healing bonuses and such, plus the extra feats like a fighter. Sounds like a possible, also.

[QuikSand]

Modest update:

I have had a minor (major?) misfortune with my character, and have lost nearly all of my special gear (everything that was not equipped), including most importantly my outstanding magical bow. So, I've got a little work to do to rebuild him to a degree. And alas, I no longer have my set "packages" of gear ready to help out anyone's new character.

However, I have gained one more level since I last posted -- took it in sorcerer, which still increased my spell capacity.

So, now I am a SOR 19, RANG 1 -- and currently have the XP to take another level.

My plan, I think, is this:

I'm going to develop in rogue for two of every three levels from here, which should add lots of skill points and the sneak attack bonus. On every third level, I intend to take a level of sorcerer, intending to use my new feats to add one or two of the epic level spells. I'll need to spend some of my rogue skill points on spellcasting (paying 2 for 1) but I think this should work out okay.

Alas...

[Calis]

Almost completely unrelated, but I didn't feel like starting a new thread for this...

NWN2 has been officially announced now, and it looks like Obsidian Studios will be the ones making it. This is the new group started by Feargus Urquhart(sheesh that's a mouthful), who was the president of Black Isle Studios in its heyday. They're also the ones working on the Knights of the Old Republic sequel.

hxxp://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/08/04/news_6104090.html

[QuikSand]

Well, another quick update on my character. I have learned a few things.

I have now advanced to 20 SORC / 2 ROG / 1 RANG

Gaining the epid level spells is tougher than it seems -- the key thing is having a high rating in spellcraft, but that is bounded by the nuber of levels you have as a spellcaster. So, with 20 levels, I am limited to only 23 in spellcraft -- meaning that if I want an epic spell requiring spellcraft of 26, I need 3 more levels in sorcerer -- I can't keep boosting spellcraft while taking levels as a rogue.

So, I think it's unlikely that I'll do many more SORC levels -- I have a good complement of spells, they are pretty strong, and I can keep gaining in the sneak attack by staying with the rogue class for now.

That's my updated plan, at least...

[Fritz]

if you had another char slot, another spell class such as bard would have allowed you to up the spellcraft. Still, will Rouge not allow you to take spellcraft every other level?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Still, will Rouge not allow you to take spellcraft every other level?

I don't know for certain, but I don't think so. I'm taking my next level as a rogue... so I'll know for sure then. If I can take spellcraft, I certainly will do so.

[QuikSand]

On a semi-related note, I recently discovered that I had saved my character from the old Avlis server to my local vault - he's a 10th level monk, and a character I invested a fair amount of time in building. (For those of you familiar with Avlis, you'll know what I mean there -- XP growth was absolutely glacial there)

Anyway, I thought it might be neat to take him around to some of the various "local vault" sites on the 'net -- you know, have him run around some mid-level dungeon a while, accomplish the mission, pick up a few XP and toys to play with, and then save him locally to use him somewhere else.

Little did I realise that such a universes doesn't seem to really exist. If you have a local character, and take him to a server that accepts local character -- you had better be 40th level and outfitted with gear that makes you ridiculously strong. And if you're not, you take your characetr to one of many sites taht will instantly make him something like that -- pull a lever, get enough XP to go to 40th level; spend 100gp, get a +20 sword that does 200 points of damage; that sort of thing. Uber-characters seem to be the order of the day, there's little interest in an ordinary, honest 10th level guy with nothing all that special about him.

*sigh*

So much for that idea...