Mets acquire Benson, Zambrano

Booj · 07-30-2004, 05:39 PM

From MLB.com front page...

Scott Kazmir listed as the headliner going to Tampa Bay while Ty Wigginton is part of the package going to Pittsburgh.

jetpunk2000 · 07-30-2004, 05:41 PM

I think the Mets confused the Zambranos. They probably thought they were getting Carlos. Any Devil Rays fans have any info on this guy? All I know is he walks an awful lot of people.

Philliesfan980 · 07-30-2004, 05:43 PM

The other Zambrano is having a solid year. Not a great pitcher, but certainly not a bad #4-5 guy.

Still waiting for the Phillies to do something. Looks like there's nobody left.

JonInMiddleGA · 07-30-2004, 05:48 PM

Not only did they get the lesser Zambrano, but ..
"TAMPA BAY: RHP Victor Zambrano is experiencing some muscle tightness near his right elbow, but is still scheduled to make his next start Saturday. ``We'll see how he feels (Friday), manager Lou Piniella said."

The_herd · 07-30-2004, 05:49 PM

Mets staff got younger, if not better. As a Mets fan, I like the deals. Wiggington is a borderline starter, he'll never be more than a Matt Stairs type. Petterson is an ok prospect, nothing special. I'm sad to see Huber go, he looked like Piazza's replacement behind the plate. Would never match Piazza's offense, but he'll be a solid catcher. Kazmir is very overrated. He'll be lucky if he ends up being a 3-4 starter. I've been hearing that the Mets had been hyping him up for a while trying to increase his trade value.

General Mike · 07-30-2004, 05:58 PM

I agree that Wigginton isn't great. Hes not a good enough fielder to be an everyday 2B or 3B and he doesn't have the bat to be an everyday 1B. I won't be so mad about the Mets trading the entire farm for Benson and Zambrano if they get Benson resigned, but I still don't like the idea of trading all their top prospects, and they still need a reliever.

JonInMiddleGA · 07-30-2004, 05:58 PM

Yeesh, go look at Zambrano's split stats
He's 2-5 with a 5.71 away from Tampa
He's 2-4 with a 5.84 outdoors
He's 2-4 with a 6.48 on grass
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/6752/splits

About the only thing I can figure is, since he's 3-0 against the NL this season, the Mets are hoping he can give them some wins while he makes his way around the league & before the book on him is improved.

jetpunk2000 · 07-30-2004, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_herd

Mets staff got younger, if not better. As a Mets fan, I like the deals. Wiggington is a borderline starter, he'll never be more than a Matt Stairs type. Petterson is an ok prospect, nothing special. I'm sad to see Huber go, he looked like Piazza's replacement behind the plate. Would never match Piazza's offense, but he'll be a solid catcher. Kazmir is very overrated. He'll be lucky if he ends up being a 3-4 starter. I've been hearing that the Mets had been hyping him up for a while trying to increase his trade value.

I agree with everything except the Kazmir statement. How exactly do you know he's overrated? In his last 4 or 5 starts his ERA was about 1.72, including the couple of starts at AA. I don't mind trading the potential in Kazmir for a proven player, but it's curious that we could have had Soriano for Kaz in the offseason and he was untouchable then, but now he's traded for a #3 at best.

General Mike · 07-30-2004, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Yeesh, go look at Zambrano's split stats
He's 2-5 with a 5.71 away from Tampa
He's 2-4 with a 5.84 outdoors
He's 2-4 with a 6.48 on grass
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/6752/splits

About the only thing I can figure is, since he's 3-0 against the NL this season, the Mets are hoping he can give them some wins while he makes his way around the league & before the book on him is improved.

Rick Peterson thinks he can fix Zambrano, and he is a huge upgrade over Seo, Erickson/Ginter/Heilman et al.

cschex · 07-30-2004, 06:08 PM

Look, I have great faith in Peterson's ability, but Zambrano is not enough of an upgrade to give up Kazmir, unless they already have knowledge that he's hurt or something. In addition, giving up Huber in the Benson trade was idiotic. They have no catcher anywhere close to the majors in their system anymore.

The_herd · 07-30-2004, 06:11 PM

I really think Peterson would have fought to keep Kazmir if he thought he was as good as people think he is. Peterson is one of the top 3 pitching coaches in baseball and spent the offseaon working with Kazmir. It became clear when Seo was bounced from the roation to start the year that if Peterson didn't believe you could pitch at the Major League level, you were probably going to have a rough time staying in the rotation.

The overrated statement is mainly opinion. One that we'll have to take a wait and see approach on. If he lives up to the hype, I'll be the 1st to say I was wrong about him. Remember that Heilman had similar hype surrounding him a couple seasons ago. Now he's a 26 year old (I think) borderline starter.

jetpunk2000 · 07-30-2004, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Mike

Rick Peterson thinks he can fix Zambrano, and he is a huge upgrade over Seo, Erickson/Ginter/Heilman et al.

That's great, but the bullpen still sucks. These guys aren't inning eaters and even if they were, Howe would take them out after 95 pitches anyway.

Logan · 07-30-2004, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_herd

Remember that Heilman had similar hype surrounding him a couple seasons ago. Now he's a 26 year old (I think) borderline starter.

You're certainly entitled to your opinon on Kazmir, but this is completely untrue.

As soon as Heilman was drafted, he was pegged as a middle of the rotation starter, in a best-case scenario. He didn't throw hard, but had a couple nice breaking pitches and a decent changeup. He gave the impression that he could eat up innings, but wouldn't be anywhere near an ace.

Kazmir, however, was the best high school pitcher the year he was drafted, and would have been a top 3 pick if he was more affordable. He's a lefty, has a rocket for an arm, throws nasty breaking pitches, and completely destroyed all competition when he started his career. He certainly has the potential to be an ace, and even if he misses, he could be groomed to be another Billy Wagner in the bullpen.

FBPro · 07-30-2004, 07:29 PM

hehehe......go Muts.

Crapshoot · 07-30-2004, 10:29 PM

The Mets = idiocy- I can understand Benson because they think he can become a Jason Schmidt type (get out of Pittsburgh), but giving up Huber for Batista (who was a Pirates Rule V pick btw, because they need "4" open spots for proven veteran Mike Benjiman). The Pirates, once again, are idiots. And the mets - Kazmir for Zambrano ?

Shit, if the MEts had offered Kazmir, Peterson, Wiggington, and Huber to Arizona for Randy, its as good a package as being thrown out there.

Suicane75 · 07-30-2004, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetpunk2000

I agree with everything except the Kazmir statement. How exactly do you know he's overrated? In his last 4 or 5 starts his ERA was about 1.72, including the couple of starts at AA. I don't mind trading the potential in Kazmir for a proven player, but it's curious that we could have had Soriano for Kaz in the offseason and he was untouchable then, but now he's traded for a #3 at best.

Kaz was never going for Soriano straight up, if it anything he would be in addition to Reyes, to say that they were offered Soriano for Kaz and refused is just wrong.

sterlingice · 07-30-2004, 11:00 PM

Oh, as a Royals fan, thanks for Justin Huber for nothing. We picked him up Batista for cash a few weeks ago and spun him into a once really hot prospect who is still only 22.

I can understand the Benson deal, particularly if they are able to sign him long term as they are planning. Although, the back page of the New York tabloids is probably not the place to reach your untapped potential.

But I love this quote from ESPN: "Devil Rays GM Chuck Lamar told ESPN Radio Friday night that he lamented giving up Zambrano, but felt Kazmir was too good to pass up." Yeah, I can see it now: "What? i can turn eminently replaceable Victor Zambrano into Scott Kazmir?!? Who is this phone call really from? Is it you, Lou, you jokester?" Sure, TNSTAAPP applies but c'mon, it's not like Victor Zambrano and his WHIP of 1.5+ is worth a high caliber prospect. This is a pitcher who tries to get a high BB/K ratio by striking out everyone rather than lowering his walks.

SI

Suicane75 · 07-31-2004, 02:03 AM

Lost in all of this hubub is the Mets best aquisition on the day,
hxxp://www.annabenson.net

jetpunk2000 · 07-31-2004, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Kaz was never going for Soriano straight up, if it anything he would be in addition to Reyes, to say that they were offered Soriano for Kaz and refused is just wrong.

Actually Texas wanted Reyes, Mets refused so they started scouting Kaz. It was never gonna be both.

ESPN

The_herd · 07-31-2004, 11:45 PM

Quote:

But this is also a guy who throws 96 miles an hour and was holding opposing hitters to a .230 batting average. So he's eminently salvageable. In fact, Peterson reportedly told the Mets he could get Zambrano straightened out "in 10 minutes.

If Peterson can pull this off, I'll officially have a man-crush on him.

Anthony · 08-01-2004, 12:59 AM

i wish we woulda traded Kazuo Matsui for Nomar. Kaz is a bust. i'd also rather have Esteban Loiaza than Zambrano, and the Yanks didn't give up much for a recent 20 game winner.

Samdari · 08-01-2004, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

The other Zambrano is having a solid year. Not a great pitcher, but certainly not a bad #4-5 guy.

'

Huh? Carlos Zambrano has been among the 5-6 best starters in the NL this year, easily outpitching anyone on the Cubs.

FBPro · 08-01-2004, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Lost in all of this hubub is the Mets best aquisition on the day,
hxxp://www.annabenson.net

yep

lynchjm24 · 08-01-2004, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

and the Yanks didn't give up much for a recent 20 game winner.

It's comments like this that make me happy you are in my OOTP league...

07-30-2004, 05:49 PM	#5
The_herd College Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fort Lackland, Texas (San Antonio)	Mets staff got younger, if not better. As a Mets fan, I like the deals. Wiggington is a borderline starter, he'll never be more than a Matt Stairs type. Petterson is an ok prospect, nothing special. I'm sad to see Huber go, he looked like Piazza's replacement behind the plate. Would never match Piazza's offense, but he'll be a solid catcher. Kazmir is very overrated. He'll be lucky if he ends up being a 3-4 starter. I've been hearing that the Mets had been hyping him up for a while trying to increase his trade value. __________________ Oakland Raiders: HFL's 1970 AC West Champs Last edited by The_herd : 07-30-2004 at 05:51 PM.

07-30-2004, 05:58 PM	#6
General Mike Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The State of Rutgers	I agree that Wigginton isn't great. Hes not a good enough fielder to be an everyday 2B or 3B and he doesn't have the bat to be an everyday 1B. I won't be so mad about the Mets trading the entire farm for Benson and Zambrano if they get Benson resigned, but I still don't like the idea of trading all their top prospects, and they still need a reliever. __________________ Boise Stampede Continental Football League Jacksonville Jaguars GM North American Football League Nebraska Coach FOFC-BBCF Rutgers & Washington coach Bowl Bound-BBCF

07-30-2004, 06:11 PM	#11
The_herd College Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fort Lackland, Texas (San Antonio)	I really think Peterson would have fought to keep Kazmir if he thought he was as good as people think he is. Peterson is one of the top 3 pitching coaches in baseball and spent the offseaon working with Kazmir. It became clear when Seo was bounced from the roation to start the year that if Peterson didn't believe you could pitch at the Major League level, you were probably going to have a rough time staying in the rotation. The overrated statement is mainly opinion. One that we'll have to take a wait and see approach on. If he lives up to the hype, I'll be the 1st to say I was wrong about him. Remember that Heilman had similar hype surrounding him a couple seasons ago. Now he's a 26 year old (I think) borderline starter. __________________ Oakland Raiders: HFL's 1970 AC West Champs

07-30-2004, 07:29 PM	#14
FBPro College Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SE	hehehe......go Muts. __________________ GM RayCo Raiders-est. 2004-2012 Charter member of the IHOF-RayCo GM GM Tennessee Titans PFL 2011-2014 GM Tennessee Titans FOWL 2020-2025

07-30-2004, 11:00 PM	#17
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Oh, as a Royals fan, thanks for Justin Huber for nothing. We picked him up Batista for cash a few weeks ago and spun him into a once really hot prospect who is still only 22. I can understand the Benson deal, particularly if they are able to sign him long term as they are planning. Although, the back page of the New York tabloids is probably not the place to reach your untapped potential. But I love this quote from ESPN: "Devil Rays GM Chuck Lamar told ESPN Radio Friday night that he lamented giving up Zambrano, but felt Kazmir was too good to pass up." Yeah, I can see it now: "What? i can turn eminently replaceable Victor Zambrano into Scott Kazmir?!? Who is this phone call really from? Is it you, Lou, you jokester?" Sure, TNSTAAPP applies but c'mon, it's not like Victor Zambrano and his WHIP of 1.5+ is worth a high caliber prospect. This is a pitcher who tries to get a high BB/K ratio by striking out everyone rather than lowering his walks. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 07-30-2004 at 11:04 PM.

07-30-2004, 05:41 PM	#2
jetpunk2000 Waterboy Forever Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Oceanside NY	I think the Mets confused the Zambranos. They probably thought they were getting Carlos. Any Devil Rays fans have any info on this guy? All I know is he walks an awful lot of people.

07-30-2004, 05:43 PM	#3
Philliesfan980 Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Exton, PA	The other Zambrano is having a solid year. Not a great pitcher, but certainly not a bad #4-5 guy. Still waiting for the Phillies to do something. Looks like there's nobody left.

07-30-2004, 05:48 PM	#4
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Not only did they get the lesser Zambrano, but .. "TAMPA BAY: RHP Victor Zambrano is experiencing some muscle tightness near his right elbow, but is still scheduled to make his next start Saturday. ``We'll see how he feels (Friday), manager Lou Piniella said."

07-30-2004, 06:08 PM	#10
cschex High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Austin, TX	Look, I have great faith in Peterson's ability, but Zambrano is not enough of an upgrade to give up Kazmir, unless they already have knowledge that he's hurt or something. In addition, giving up Huber in the Benson trade was idiotic. They have no catcher anywhere close to the majors in their system anymore.

07-30-2004, 10:29 PM	#15
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	The Mets = idiocy- I can understand Benson because they think he can become a Jason Schmidt type (get out of Pittsburgh), but giving up Huber for Batista (who was a Pirates Rule V pick btw, because they need "4" open spots for proven veteran Mike Benjiman). The Pirates, once again, are idiots. And the mets - Kazmir for Zambrano ? Shit, if the MEts had offered Kazmir, Peterson, Wiggington, and Huber to Arizona for Randy, its as good a package as being thrown out there.

07-31-2004, 02:03 AM	#18
Suicane75 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ	Lost in all of this hubub is the Mets best aquisition on the day, hxxp://www.annabenson.net

08-01-2004, 12:59 AM	#21
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	i wish we woulda traded Kazuo Matsui for Nomar. Kaz is a bust. i'd also rather have Esteban Loiaza than Zambrano, and the Yanks didn't give up much for a recent 20 game winner.

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