Anybody watching US vs. Italy on ESPN?

[kingfc22]

Another example of how poor the NBA is now.

US Basketball is all about dunking, traveling and carrying.

I've lost count how many times the US players have got called for traveling and then look back at the int'l ref as if to say that is not a travel in the NBA.

Not to mention the poor outside shooting that most NBA players possess. The int'l 3 is only 20' and they still can't hit consitently.

[VPI97]

Score?

[Neuqua]

71-56 Italy with 8 minutes left.

[Comey]

Italy's up 69-56.

This is insane. I can't believe they're not exploiting this zone with any threes. King is right though...the "mid-range jumper" of the NBA (or a three here) has been shown to be lost.

It's also VERY entertaining to watch #5 on Italy. He hit everything that he tossed up in the third quarter.

There was a comment by Bill Walton that really kind of irked me...it was regarding how the games are over the Armed Forces network, and so "the soldiers could watch THEIR heroes." These aren't kids. It just bothered me, as it was very short-sighted.

This last exchange (block by Stoudamire, HUGE dunk by James called off on a travel) is a microcosm of this game. This one's over, with Italy up by 18.

-John

[kingfc22]

Yea, Walton has said a lot of stuff that has been pretty stupid this game. But then again, when does he not.

[Franklinnoble]

Embarassing...

[Calis]

Does it make me Un-American if I somewhat get a kick out of this?

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Calis

Does it make me Un-American if I somewhat get a kick out of this?

Yes

[Neuqua]

Jeez, the Italians are actually rubbing it in too.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Yes

Damn, figured as much.

This is sad though, I mean getting beat is one thing...but they're getting hammered out there.

[Comey]

It really seems like they weren't expecting as loose a game with the bumps, but as tight a game with the travels. The refs aren't all that random, but those two extremes seem to have really thrown off the players.

This team will never live this one down...but it's something they need, it appears.

[stevew]

This is funny and sad at the same time.

[kingfc22]

95-78. It wasn't even close in the 4th either.

[Huckleberry]

How is it unpatriotic to get a kick out of this? The NBA sucks and all validation of that fact is welcome.

I long for the day when traveling, handchecks, and carrying were called. Maybe someday real basketball will return.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

How is it unpatriotic to get a kick out of this? The NBA sucks and all validation of that fact is welcome.

I long for the day when traveling, handchecks, and carrying were called. Maybe someday real basketball will return.

I have to agree.

It's still embarassing...

[bbor]

Did Wince Carter go down in the 4th after the game was out of hand?


Quick...name one player on ethe Italian nat team

[Huckleberry]

AND1 Streetball is next on ESPN. What a perfect ending to this display.

I had "LOL" up. But I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

How is it unpatriotic to get a kick out of this? The NBA sucks and all validation of that fact is welcome.

I long for the day when traveling, handchecks, and carrying were called. Maybe someday real basketball will return.

I agree. Lebron taking 4 steps on a dunk and acting incredulous when he was called for travelling is one of the funniest things I've ever seen, strictly as someone who hates NBA style basketball. With Iverson and Marbury as the starting backcourt, I think this team is doomed...

[Franklinnoble]

Tuesday, August 3, 2004

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Associated Press
COLOGNE, Germany -- The U.S. men's Olympic team did more than merely lose. It was embarrassed and exposed like never before in international competition.




Losing an exhibition game for the first time when using NBA players, the Americans were completely outclassed by lightly regarded Italy, never even making it close in the fourth quarter of a 95-78 upset Tuesday.



The Americans were sloppy with the ball and couldn't handle Italy's zone defenses and 3-point shooting. Italy not only made 15 from behind the arc, but showed superior ball movement and poise in handing the Americans their most lopsided defeat since pros began competing in 1992.



"They're going to be in for a lot of lessons for the next few weeks," U.S. coach Larry Brown said. "It's a young team, and it's a different game internationally."



Nuggets forward Carmelo Anthony led the Americans with 17 points, and two-time NBA MVP Tim Duncan added 15.



Italy, whose roster is filled entirely by players from that country's league, was led by Giacomo Galanda's 28 points and Gianluca Basile's 25.

[pennywisesb]

I stopped watching the game at halftime because I was getting so frustrated. No one on the Italian team showed that they could really take it to the hole against our defense, but still, we would back off of them on the perimeter to make sure they couldn't go to the hole. At this point is where the Italians were hitting 75% (thats what it seemed) of their shots behind the 3 point line. I would have rathered the USA players stay right on them on the perimeter and make the Italians beat them to the hole.

[Desnudo]

Larry Brown will get them sorted out.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Larry Brown will get them sorted out.

I don't know about that... he's got a lot of young, big egos on that squad.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Another example of how poor the NBA is now.

US Basketball is all about dunking, traveling and carrying.

I've lost count how many times the US players have got called for traveling and then look back at the int'l ref as if to say that is not a travel in the NBA.

Not to mention the poor outside shooting that most NBA players possess. The int'l 3 is only 20' and they still can't hit consitently.

I'll be interested to see the reactions to this and how we play in the Olympics. Like a couple others in this thread, I agree that this is how basketball should be played and I'll be curious to see if there is any "the refs screwed us" quotes or things more along the line of "we really need to work on things".

SI

[korme]

This would not be happening if Shaq, McGrady, Kobe, Big Ben, KG, and the like would suck it up and represent their country. Instead.. we get Carlos Boozer.

[Ksyrup]

Oh no! A loss to the international community! What should we do?

How about go home and rest up for the season.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

This would not be happening if Shaq, McGrady, Kobe, Big Ben, KG, and the like would suck it up and represent their country. Instead.. we get Carlos Boozer.

Eh... there's no excuse. The Duke Men's Basketball team could win the gold medal at Athens. It's not about which players we send, it's about the way NBA stars play the game these days.

[MrBug708]

Shame indeed. What hurts them is they didn't get a consistant outside shot, but went for the "Stars" instead.

[Cringer]

This is a good thing to hear, the NBA annoys me.......

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

I don't know about that... he's got a lot of young, big egos on that squad.

He kept Rasheed Wallace from going postal all season, I think he can handle the nickle and dime stuff.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

He kept Rasheed Wallace from going postal all season, I think he can handle the nickle and dime stuff.

Bah. Two words:

Contract year.

If he can keep 'Sheed from misbehaving next year, then I'll concede that Brown has a gift for dealing with bad attitudes.

[JW]

Originally Posted by Comey

It really seems like they weren't expecting as loose a game with the bumps, but as tight a game with the travels. The refs aren't all that random, but those two extremes seem to have really thrown off the players.

This team will never live this one down...but it's something they need, it appears.

But they should have expected it. That is how the international game is played. The NBA game is a parody of basketball. They probably even expect to be able to advance the ball to midcourt after a timeout in the last two minutes, one of the NBA's most obvious gimmicks.

[Comey]

Originally Posted by JW

But they should have expected it. That is how the international game is played. The NBA game is a parody of basketball. They probably even expect to be able to advance the ball to midcourt after a timeout in the last two minutes, one of the NBA's most obvious gimmicks.

How many of these players were playing their first international game? As much as Brown could tell them, or AI, or Duncan...I don't see how many of them could expect it. You could tell that with the looks they were giving the refs for some calls that would be considered tight stateside.

They'll expect it NOW. That's why I said they needed this game to succeed (if this team was going to have problems, it's good they have it now).

[Easy Mac]

All of them played a game on Sunday against an insanely overmatched Puerto Rico, so its not their first game. I think they saw how easy that game was, and thought they woud all be like that.

And God forbid refs call travelling based on the rules.

[Arles]

You think that the next time the US makes an Olympic hoops team that they might think of putting a player on the team that can hit an 18-foot jump shot? Nah, why do that when the team has 35 dunking small forwards that can't defend.

[Tex Schramm]

I thought that all those losses in the last tournament were supposed to be our wake-up call.

The sad fact is that NBA players don't care about international play and never will. I bet we don't even get a medal this year. They should either play hard or not play at all - there's no sense in risking injury if you're not going to even put forth any effort.

I didn't watch the game - but why aren't they using Tim Duncan more? He should be scoring and rebouding at will down there.

[Tex Schramm]

Another problem with it is the expectations that fans and media have. We expect the gold and nothing less. We expect that the US team should never lose. You only see headlines and media attention if the team loses. There's little appreciation for the success the US has had over the years - so I can understand how it'd be hard to win games when dealing with expectations like that.

[PsychoCop]

Well when all your star players beg off joining the Olympic squad... wether it be for physical, political or monetary reasons... you are definitely in trouble. Maybe even a lack of national pride... or the need to defend it (inside the basketball court of course)

How many star players didn't join? The US just might as well have sent a college-assembled squad... at least they'd be more motivated to win.

[KeyserSoze]

My thoughts:

1- Desire: NBA players think that Olympics is an easy ride. They will win, have fun and come back to the serious games. Nowadays any international team is competitive.
2- Teamwork: Lots of International teams have been working together for a long time. Maybe just the summers, but they are not strangers. NBA should make a group of full commited players as a core and add some stars to the team.
3- Fundamentals: You know fast movements to get 3 points easy, making zone defense, attacking zone defense, hooks, fade away jumpers. NBA is losing the players with high fundamentals ( Reggie Miller, Stockton, Malone...). Heck, even Jordan who was a spectacular player, do the most of the points with mid range jumpers and fade away jumpers.

Well just my thoughts

[daedalus]

A couple of things . . . colour me unpatriotic but it giggle-fies me that they lose when Allen Iverson (Mr. "I couldn't have been more than 5 minutes late") is their team captain.

Originally Posted by Comey

How many of these players were playing their first international game? As much as Brown could tell them, or AI, or Duncan...I don't see how many of them could expect it. You could tell that with the looks they were giving the refs for some calls that would be considered tight stateside.

Huh? Why should it matter if it's their first international game? Unlike in soccer, the talent level is a step DOWN. As has been said, if they learned how to play the game and/or the committee picks a TEAM (rather than a collection of all-stars), the game should not be close. And that's not an insult to the Italian team.

Originally Posted by Comey

You think that the next time the US makes an Olympic hoops team that they might think of putting a player on the team that can hit an 18-foot jump shot? Nah, why do that when the team has 35 dunking small forwards that can't defend.

I heart Arles. Sometimes.

Originally Posted by PsychoCop

Well when all your star players beg off joining the Olympic squad... wether it be for physical, political or monetary reasons... you are definitely in trouble. Maybe even a lack of national pride... or the need to defend it (inside the basketball court of course)

How many star players didn't join? The US just might as well have sent a college-assembled squad... at least they'd be more motivated to win.

Do you seriously think the problem was really a question of a LACK of talent from the rest of the NBA (other than those stars)? It may be the case with baseball (with the group they are able to get) but I hardly think it's anywhere near the same with basketball. Yes, other countries are catching up in talent and abilities but I don't think even 3rd or 4th options at any given position really constitute a lack of talent.

[andy m]

[ice4277]

I think they should just have picked an entire NBA team. Take the Pistons/Pacers/Kings/Spurs/whoever and put them in a Team USA jersey. They would wipe the floor with the competition.

[PsychoCop]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Do you seriously think the problem was really a question of a LACK of talent from the rest of the NBA (other than those stars)? It may be the case with baseball (with the group they are able to get) but I hardly think it's anywhere near the same with basketball. Yes, other countries are catching up in talent and abilities but I don't think even 3rd or 4th options at any given position really constitute a lack of talent.

It's not a lack of talent, but the fact that the other countrie's best players are basically now on-par with the talent that the US is sending this year.

If Shaq, KG, Kobe and Kidd were there, I highly doubt that anyone would be able to hold a candle to the USA Team.

Carlos Boozer, Dwayne Wayde, Lebron James and Carmelo Anthony are good players in their own right, but they are not as experienced as these stars.

Remember, each country (other than the US ) is sending their VERY BEST.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by ice4277

I think they should just have picked an entire NBA team. Take the Pistons/Pacers/Kings/Spurs/whoever and put them in a Team USA jersey. They would wipe the floor with the competition.

The Pacers are the only one of those four without a foreigner on the roster, I believe.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by PsychoCop

It's not a lack of talent, but the fact that the other countrie's best players are basically now on-par with the talent that the US is sending this year.

If Shaq, KG, Kobe and Kidd were there, I highly doubt that anyone would be able to hold a candle to the USA Team.

Carlos Boozer, Dwayne Wayde, Lebron James and Carmelo Anthony are good players in their own right, but they are not as experienced as these stars.

Remember, each country (other than the US ) is sending their VERY BEST.

Not only that but many of the international teams have played 50 or more games together.

[Comey]

Originally Posted by daedalus

Huh? Why should it matter if it's their first international game? Unlike in soccer, the talent level is a step DOWN. As has been said, if they learned how to play the game and/or the committee picks a TEAM (rather than a collection of all-stars), the game should not be close. And that's not an insult to the Italian team.

The point is they didn't know how the game would be played. They played their style of game...the NBA game...and it didn't work. It *really* didn't work. They learned (hoping they learned, anyway) that chemistry and perimeter defense means something.

That's why it mattered that it was their first international game (I don't count PR...not exactly international, and definitely not this setting). They didn't know how the game would be officiated, didn't know how the Italians would play D, or that they'd drive every time specifically to kick it out (they should've known that, at least by the second quarter). Now that they do know, it'll be interesting to see who makes some adjustments to their game.

-John

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Comey

The point is they didn't know how the game would be played. They played their style of game...the NBA game...and it didn't work. It *really* didn't work. They learned (hoping they learned, anyway) that chemistry and perimeter defense means something.

That's why it mattered that it was their first international game (I don't count PR...not exactly international, and definitely not this setting). They didn't know how the game would be officiated, didn't know how the Italians would play D, or that they'd drive every time specifically to kick it out (they should've known that, at least by the second quarter). Now that they do know, it'll be interesting to see who makes some adjustments to their game.

-John

Considering the USA's performance in the previous World Championships I wouldn't consider positive adjustments a given.

[Comey]

Agreed.

[condors]

being in Philly and a Sixers fan i find it funny that the last couple of seasons Larry Brown was here people said we need a 3 point shooter and we need better perimeter defense. It ironic that team USA loses to flaws that haunted the sixers for years (won't happen in Detroit unless they make LB the GM)

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Simmons, proving once again he should only write on the NBA....

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/040804

[Alf]

I actually enjoyed the article.