Why Not Wait Out Your Rookie QB?

Grid Iron · 08-09-2004, 10:50 PM

This thread was inspired by the recent breakdown between the Chargers and Phillip Rivers. Personally, I see San Diego's selection of Rivers as somewhat high, and I doubt he would be a top-5 pick next year, let alont a top-10 pick. It seems every college season there are "newer and better" pro prospects which would push his value down. Also, missing an entire year of practicing with pros and having an agent that wants an unreasonably high offer can only hurt hius draft rating.

If I was the Chargers management, I'd tell Rivers to go screw himself, and that we would talk in January. By then, there will be a couple so-called "can't miss" QB prospects, Mike Williams, and several other top players getting all the attention. When people predict that he'd go in the 10-15th pick, then give him 7th-pick money. He'd be a fool to enter the draft again and give up the chance to lock up 7th-pick money.

Any thoughts on why teams don't do this? Anyone know if something like this has happened before?

I suspect this is a unique situation because Rivers was selected at least a few rounds before most expected him to go.

SuburbanPimp · 08-09-2004, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grid Iron

It seems every college season there are "newer and better" pro prospects which would push his value down.

"With the first pick in the 2005 draft, the ___________ select...Chris Rix."

Yikes.

CHEMICAL SOLDIER · 08-09-2004, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuburbanPimp

"With the first pick in the 2005 draft, the ___________ select...Chris Rix."

Yikes.

Chris Rix.....That's a bust waiting to happen.

Ironhead · 08-09-2004, 11:13 PM

From another board on exactly this same issue:

"Can anyone recall a rookie QB who held out for an extended period of time (i.e. all of training camp) and went on to become anything?

Names like Heath Shuler and Akili Smith keep coming to mind."

Lathum · 08-09-2004, 11:22 PM

How can you say he went a few rounds before expected. He was a number one pick all the way, and the reason why this could never happen is it would be a PR nightmare.

sabotai · 08-09-2004, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

How can you say he went a few rounds before expected. He was a number one pick all the way, and the reason why this could never happen is it would be a PR nightmare.

I think he switched in the word "round" for "pick". At least, after I read it with the word pick there instead of round, it makes more sense.

Grid Iron · 08-09-2004, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

How can you say he went a few rounds before expected. He was a number one pick all the way, and the reason why this could never happen is it would be a PR nightmare.

Sorry about that. He was definitely a first-round pick. I meant 7th selection.
:o

Vinatieri for Prez · 08-10-2004, 12:24 AM

You would prefer not to wait because you lose a whole year of teaching your system to the kid, and his own personal skill development. Thus, your future plans for rebirth of your team is delayed by a year. Bad PR doesn't help either. Even if fans are on the team's side, it appears to be a chaotic mess for the team and hurts perceptions of stability and how much players like playing for your crappy team.

Ragone · 08-10-2004, 02:23 AM

This is a typical marty excuse..

"Well, our first round pick got into camp late.." then after they start 0-4 1-3... they throw him to the wolves and start him.. thus tanking the season.. and having a died in wool excuse for why the season sucked

Samdari · 08-10-2004, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grid Iron

This thread was inspired by the recent breakdown between the Chargers and Phillip Rivers. Personally, I see San Diego's selection of Rivers as somewhat high, and I doubt he would be a top-5 pick next year, let alont a top-10 pick. It seems every college season there are "newer and better" pro prospects which would push his value down. Also, missing an entire year of practicing with pros and having an agent that wants an unreasonably high offer can only hurt hius draft rating.

If I was the Chargers management, I'd tell Rivers to go screw himself, and that we would talk in January. By then, there will be a couple so-called "can't miss" QB prospects, Mike Williams, and several other top players getting all the attention. When people predict that he'd go in the 10-15th pick, then give him 7th-pick money. He'd be a fool to enter the draft again and give up the chance to lock up 7th-pick money.

Any thoughts on why teams don't do this? Anyone know if something like this has happened before?

I suspect this is a unique situation because Rivers was selected at least a few rounds before most expected him to go.

I think the reason they do this is because the teams lose more by throwing away the #4 overall pick than Rivers does by dropping from #4 2004 money to #10 2005 money, and agents know it.

The last extended holdout I remember was Bryant McKinnie, who ended up getting paid for the whole year despite missing 5-7 games holding out, because the Vikes caved to his demands at the last minute rather than lose the #7 pick altogether.

rkmsuf · 08-10-2004, 08:03 AM

The whole point of drafting someone high is to improve your team and win. Letting your pick rot on the bench a whole year seems very counterproductive to that process. The reason they drafted a QB is because they need a QB. Also, the rift casued by this certainly is not going to help this kid become a team leader.

I don't know how much money the Rivers squabble is over but the Chargers should lock him up and move on with business if it's not an astronomical amount.

TroyF · 08-10-2004, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironhead

From another board on exactly this same issue:

"Can anyone recall a rookie QB who held out for an extended period of time (i.e. all of training camp) and went on to become anything?

Names like Heath Shuler and Akili Smith keep coming to mind."

Don't forget Kelly Stouffer.

(for those who don't know, he may have been wose than Leaf if that's humanly possible)

No, I can't remember a long hold out QB being very successful in the league. I can think of other positions, but I can't think of a QB doing it and being successful.

JAG · 08-10-2004, 08:45 AM

In my mind, the Chargers are being very foolish here. Over a $3-4 million difference, they stand to lose the #1 pick in the draft for no compensation (or minimal compensation, like a 3rd round pick, if they trade him just before the 2005 draft). On top of that, they've already issued an ultimatum that has passed and they're only making it worse as time goes on by saying the dollar value will be reduced as time goes on. I think outside of the trade to get Rivers, their GM has really handled things poorly.

totoro · 08-10-2004, 11:41 AM

Chargers has it's reason to some point IMO. If I remember right, Rivers has been offered a salary figure over #2 & #3 picks. For the good of the team and himself, get the contract done, get ready for the game. If Rivers is really good, he's gonna get his reward afterwards. He's not demanding incredibly when he doesn't even throw a single ball in NFL.

08-10-2004, 08:03 AM	#11
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	The whole point of drafting someone high is to improve your team and win. Letting your pick rot on the bench a whole year seems very counterproductive to that process. The reason they drafted a QB is because they need a QB. Also, the rift casued by this certainly is not going to help this kid become a team leader. I don't know how much money the Rivers squabble is over but the Chargers should lock him up and move on with business if it's not an astronomical amount. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

08-09-2004, 11:13 PM	#4
Ironhead College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: New Jersey	From another board on exactly this same issue: "Can anyone recall a rookie QB who held out for an extended period of time (i.e. all of training camp) and went on to become anything? Names like Heath Shuler and Akili Smith keep coming to mind."

08-09-2004, 11:22 PM	#5
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	How can you say he went a few rounds before expected. He was a number one pick all the way, and the reason why this could never happen is it would be a PR nightmare.

08-10-2004, 12:24 AM	#8
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	You would prefer not to wait because you lose a whole year of teaching your system to the kid, and his own personal skill development. Thus, your future plans for rebirth of your team is delayed by a year. Bad PR doesn't help either. Even if fans are on the team's side, it appears to be a chaotic mess for the team and hurts perceptions of stability and how much players like playing for your crappy team.

08-10-2004, 02:23 AM	#9
Ragone Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kansas City, Mo	This is a typical marty excuse.. "Well, our first round pick got into camp late.." then after they start 0-4 1-3... they throw him to the wolves and start him.. thus tanking the season.. and having a died in wool excuse for why the season sucked

08-10-2004, 08:45 AM	#13
JAG Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: St. Paul, MN	In my mind, the Chargers are being very foolish here. Over a $3-4 million difference, they stand to lose the #1 pick in the draft for no compensation (or minimal compensation, like a 3rd round pick, if they trade him just before the 2005 draft). On top of that, they've already issued an ultimatum that has passed and they're only making it worse as time goes on by saying the dollar value will be reduced as time goes on. I think outside of the trade to get Rivers, their GM has really handled things poorly.

08-10-2004, 11:41 AM	#14
totoro n00b Join Date: Aug 2004	Chargers has it's reason to some point IMO. If I remember right, Rivers has been offered a salary figure over #2 & #3 picks. For the good of the team and himself, get the contract done, get ready for the game. If Rivers is really good, he's gonna get his reward afterwards. He's not demanding incredibly when he doesn't even throw a single ball in NFL.

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