What is the "Middle Class"?

[gstelmack]

Another political thread! Woohoo! Although I actually think it's possible not to get into a left vs right discussion, I doubt we'll manage that...

My local paper has a story posted at http://www.wral.com/money/3652667/detail.html that talks about the increasing tax burden on middle-class families. The problem I have here is the same I had back during the last election: how exactly do they define "Middle Class"? In this particular case, they mention a peak income of around $75K. Is this for a married couple, or per individual? How many members of the family? Does it change upward the larger the family is?

See, my problem with all these tax discussions and poor vs. rich vs. middle class is that I don't often see a clear definition or distinction. I personally feel my situation puts me in the upper middle class, but by no means am I rich. My family can buy some nice things, owns a nice house, etc, but we still watch our pennies and certainly aren't anywhere close to doing things / buying things that normally get associated with "rich".

However, every time a number gets thrown out in these tax discussions, I seem to be categorized as "rich" and so deserve to get punished by paying more taxes and that I don't pay my fair share. I think the upper-bound placed on middle class is a bit low, and that middle class ends up being a pretty narrow band.

So anyone know if there are formal definitions for these? Stats that show what percentage of households fall into which brackets? Etc?

Any other comments?

[QuikSand]

If you let the people decide, then something like 85% of families call themselves "middle class." Families of four are roughly equally likely to put themselves in this classification if they have $40,000 of income as if they have $140,000 in income. It's fascinating, really.

I don't think there are any real boundaries... it's not a term like the "poverty line" which has an actual definition (however flawed), to my knowledge. Usually, "middle class" means whatever the speaker and audience ant it to mean... and on the campaign trail, of course, this gets to be a very slipperly slope.

[Easy Mac]

I think www.census.gov does distinguish somewhere in their myriad of documents.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Mostly "what Quik said". This isn't a term that, AFAIK, has a solid concrete definition.

If you wanted to develop your own working idea about "middle class", you might start with the 2000 U.S. Census data & check the median income figures. (which will pretty quickly show you that "middle income" in some states is different than "middle income" in other states)

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by rufusjonz

lindsay lohan's nip slip is nice!

???

[Easy Mac]

here is some data from the gov'ment (you can do the number crunching):

 

        All Races                 White A.O.I.C.                 White alone 1/
                                                       Mean                          Mean                          Mean
                                      Number         Income         Number         Income         Number         Income

    Income of Household
    Total ...................        111,278         57,852         92,740         60,086         91,645         60,166
  Under $2,500...............          2,300            133          1,544             90          1,507            119
  $2,500 to $4,999...........          1,233          3,768            826          3,765            812          3,767
  $5,000 to $7,499...........          3,056          6,394          2,175          6,364          2,141          6,362
  $7,500 to $9,999...........          3,501          8,698          2,696          8,712          2,646          8,708
  $10,000 to $12,499.........          4,143         11,241          3,295         11,246          3,252         11,247
  $12,500 to $14,999.........          3,693         13,669          3,002         13,684          2,961         13,683
  $15,000 to $17,499.........          3,913         16,094          3,118         16,128          3,087         16,128
  $17,500 to $19,999.........          3,314         18,668          2,665         18,674          2,637         18,676
  $20,000 to $22,499.........          4,113         21,042          3,353         21,063          3,305         21,062
  $22,500 to $24,999.........          3,306         23,719          2,737         23,724          2,695         23,722
  $25,000 to $27,499.........          3,877         26,033          3,115         26,033          3,071         26,031
  $27,500 to $29,999.........          3,066         28,677          2,547         28,683          2,521         28,682
  $30,000 to $32,499.........          3,946         31,018          3,208         31,033          3,170         31,031
  $32,500 to $34,999.........          2,783         33,681          2,267         33,693          2,227         33,693
  $35,000 to $37,499.........          3,474         36,040          2,840         36,062          2,795         36,061
  $37,500 to $39,999.........          2,592         38,617          2,114         38,607          2,090         38,608
  $40,000 to $42,499.........          3,452         41,012          2,951         41,027          2,911         41,029
  $42,500 to $44,999.........          2,261         43,668          1,943         43,664          1,914         43,664
  $45,000 to $47,499.........          2,849         46,028          2,350         46,053          2,322         46,053
  $47,500 to $49,999.........          2,181         48,636          1,886         48,649          1,866         48,646
  $50,000 to $52,499.........          3,063         51,008          2,639         51,015          2,594         51,015
  $52,500 to $54,999.........          1,956         53,654          1,671         53,666          1,654         53,665
  $55,000 to $57,499.........          2,415         56,092          2,048         56,113          2,025         56,116
  $57,500 to $59,999.........          1,792         58,662          1,558         58,669          1,544         58,671
  $60,000 to $62,499.........          2,472         61,020          2,112         61,029          2,097         61,029
  $62,500 to $64,999.........          1,761         63,658          1,563         63,662          1,558         63,661
  $65,000 to $67,499.........          1,980         66,044          1,725         66,048          1,706         66,053
  $67,500 to $69,999.........          1,420         68,639          1,220         68,636          1,204         68,634
  $70,000 to $72,499.........          2,000         71,037          1,740         71,037          1,717         71,037
  $72,500 to $74,999.........          1,456         73,645          1,243         73,633          1,234         73,632
  $75,000 to $77,499.........          1,979         75,993          1,741         75,996          1,727         75,997
  $77,500 to $79,999.........          1,260         78,649          1,108         78,653          1,100         78,653
  $80,000 to $82,499.........          1,649         80,972          1,431         80,959          1,420         80,962
  $82,500 to $84,999.........          1,188         83,702          1,031         83,699          1,025         83,699
  $85,000 to $87,499.........          1,297         86,073          1,125         86,101          1,116         86,100
  $87,500 to $89,999.........            905         88,639            820         88,652            811         88,654
  $90,000 to $92,499.........          1,274         91,027          1,134         91,024          1,125         91,026
  $92,500 to $94,999.........            867         93,637            761         93,645            758         93,641
  $95,000 to $97,499.........          1,020         96,131            899         96,143            894         96,142
  $97,500 to $99,999.........            791         98,681            699         98,676            691         98,680
  $100,000 to $149,999.......         10,073        118,688          8,844        118,751          8,763        118,767
  $150,000 to $199,999.......          2,977        169,377          2,645        169,537          2,622        169,511
  $200,000 to $249,999.......          1,154        219,531          1,019        219,355          1,010        219,358
  $250,000 and above.........          1,472        438,005          1,330        438,298          1,319        435,982
Table HINC-06. Income Distribution to $250,000 or More for Households:  2002

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If you wanted to develop your own working idea about "middle class", you might start with the 2000 U.S. Census data & check the median income figures. (which will pretty quickly show you that "middle income" in some states is different than "middle income" in other states)

Off the top of my head, maybe I'd say that you start with the median income (perhaps adjusted by region) and include everyone between half than amount and twice that amount. (Thinking evolving...)

Around here, median p/c income is about $30,000 or so. That would make "middle class" for a family of four anywhere between $60,000 and $240,000. Hmmm... seems like a pretty broad swath, there. Maybe only up to 1.5X the median, then? $60K to 180K for a family of four?

edit - after seeing Mac's chart...

If the nation average p/c income is about $24,000 (that seems about right) that would make the "family of four" figure come out (using the 0.5-1.5X spread from above) to a range of $48,000 - $144,000... which sounds pretty reasonable to me.

[Ksyrup]

But how can I be middle class, if I benefitted from the most recent tax cuts?

[Easy Mac]

I was talking with my girlfriend the other day, and she was shocked that her family wasn't in the middle class (or my rough estimate of 40k to 125k)

I told her her dad made 100k (she said at least) and her mom makes even more, so she isn't in the middle class. I then explained to her that not everyone makes that much. I told her my mom makes 50k and my dad makes 35k, and they're in the middle of the middle class. She didn't even know the poverty level was as low as it was (she thought around 25k per person).

She just had a hard time believing that and that her 200+k family income isn't middle class. Her reasoning was that all her high school friends parents made more than that, so she didn't have as much money as them.

Needless to say I was just baffled that she didn't realize the disparity.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

I was talking with my girlfriend the other day, and she was shocked that her family wasn't in the middle class (or my rough estimate of 40k to 125k)

I told her her dad made 100k (she said at least) and her mom makes even more, so she isn't in the middle class. I then explained to her that not everyone makes that much. I told her my mom makes 50k and my dad makes 35k, and they're in the middle of the middle class. She didn't even know the poverty level was as low as it was (she thought around 25k per person).

She just had a hard time believing that and that her 200+k family income isn't middle class. Her reasoning was that all her high school friends parents made more than that, so she didn't have as much money as them.

Needless to say I was just baffled that she didn't realize the disparity.

Kudos for bedding a rich girl...

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Kudos for bedding a rich girl...

Lets just say my choice of school wasn't purely academic.

[CraigSca]

I'm always a big fan of tax cuts for "working families". Another slippery slope...the wealthy don't work for a living?

[SunDancer]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

I'm always a big fan of tax cuts for "working families". Another slippery slope...the wealthy don't work for a living?

What do the Wealthy do then to bring home money?

[Solecismic]

I would define the middle class as the group that usually feels the impact when taxes are increased.

Per-family income is probably the best way to divide things. That's tracked separately in the census. That would range from about $99,000 in our country's richest urban area, Bethesda, MD (or San Jose, CA, $70,000, if you want to limit this to more major urban areas) to $17,500 in our country's poorest urban area, Benton Harbor, MI (or Miami, FL, $23,500).

The impact of these numbers is somewhat less in that home prices (and home size, in most cases) increases with income. I would think a "fairer" solution would take this into account, which is why I support mortgage interest deductions - and would also support a smaller deduction for anything paid into primary residences (thus helping those who rent and live in more expensive areas).

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

I was talking with my girlfriend the other day, and she was shocked that her family wasn't in the middle class (or my rough estimate of 40k to 125k)

I told her her dad made 100k (she said at least) and her mom makes even more, so she isn't in the middle class. I then explained to her that not everyone makes that much. I told her my mom makes 50k and my dad makes 35k, and they're in the middle of the middle class. She didn't even know the poverty level was as low as it was (she thought around 25k per person).

She just had a hard time believing that and that her 200+k family income isn't middle class. Her reasoning was that all her high school friends parents made more than that, so she didn't have as much money as them.

Needless to say I was just baffled that she didn't realize the disparity.

Pix pls.k.thx

[Draft Dodger]

what is middle class? me.

[Maple Leafs]

It's pretty simple, really.

Anyone who makes less than me is a lazy welfare bum.

Anyone who makes more than me is a corporate whore who should never get a tax cut.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I would define the middle class as the group that usually feels the impact when taxes are increased.

I like this definition, too. But, like all the others, it has shortcomings. Let's take a $500 tax hike. If you take that away from someone making $10K per year, they lose almost a month's worth of money for all living expenses, someone at $25K a rent payment, someone at $100K part of a mortgage payment, and above that probably a small chunk of a luxury item (extra cars, mortgage on a large house, investments, etc).

It's why I tend to lean fiscally liberal when it comes to taxes. If you take $500 from my parents (who fall into that $100K+ per year category), they will miss it to be sure. But if you take that $500 from someone making $25K per year or even $100 from 5 people making $10K per year, they are going to feel it a lot more.

SI

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I like this definition, too. But, like all the others, it has shortcomings. Let's take a $500 tax hike. If you take that away from someone making $10K per year, they lose almost a month's worth of money for all living expenses, someone at $25K a rent payment, someone at $100K part of a mortgage payment, and above that probably a small chunk of a luxury item (extra cars, mortgage on a large house, investments, etc).

It's why I tend to lean fiscally liberal when it comes to taxes. If you take $500 from my parents (who fall into that $100K+ per year category), they will miss it to be sure. But if you take that $500 from someone making $25K per year or even $100 from 5 people making $10K per year, they are going to feel it a lot more.

SI

except the flaw being that if 500 is taken from the middle class- the rich are usually paying a lot more than that.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Let's take a $500 tax hike.

But is there really any such thing as a $500 tax hike?