Dampier to the Mav's

[Sharpieman]

Warriors get cash and two future first round draft picks and get rid of Eschmeyer. But they have to take on Najera and Laettner.

Story from ESPN:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1861620

[vex]

Man, I like Najera.

[Sharpieman]

Originally Posted by vexroid

Man, I like Najera.

I wish the Mav's would take him back, I don't like that guy at all.

[Easy Mac]

Najera tried too hard during games, he can't be a maverick.

[Sharpieman]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Najera tried too hard during games, he can't be a maverick.

He's a perfect fit with the Warriors, tries hard, but sucks.

[Tex Schramm]

I love this deal from the Mavericks' end. I like finally acquiring a big man at the center position and everything, but I have always loved Dan Dickau as a player. I thought he was a fun guy to watch at Gonzaga, and I've been watching him bounce around the league. You know you always have gut feelings about some prospects you see come into the league - well he's one of them for me, and it's pretty cool that he's coming to my team. If nothing else, he's definitely a true point guard.

No question Mavs make a great move here. Even if Dampier doesn't pan out, at least they went out and got the best big man available.

[stevew]

Dickau will either not make the mavs, or not play at all. Basically he is at the end of the line of his pro career.


And Dampier is the classic "contract year" guy.....look at his numbers except for the years he played for a new deal, he sucks.

[bbor]

I like Dampier...i was hoping he'd end up a Raptor and solidify the center spot for them

[Tex Schramm]

Fine, even if he is a "contract year" guy, and I would probably agree with you on that, no matter how you look at it it's a good deal for Dallas. They acquired the best center available and hardly gave up anything.

stevew, are you an NBA scout? You obviously have extensive knowledge of Dickau's ability. You know, Steve Nash never averaged double-digit points or assists until his fifth year in the league. A lot of people said he was worthless, even after his first year in Dallas. Don't try to evaluate players based on what you read in the newspaper.

[VPI97]

Dickau couldn't break into the Hawks' rotation.




I believe that's all that needs to be said about his talent level.

[JeeberD]

Bleh.

Sad to see ya go, Eddie...

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Tex Schramm

stevew, are you an NBA scout? You obviously have extensive knowledge of Dickau's ability. You know, Steve Nash never averaged double-digit points or assists until his fifth year in the league. A lot of people said he was worthless, even after his first year in Dallas. Don't try to evaluate players based on what you read in the newspaper.

The fact that he is being treated as a "throwin" on 2 separate trades this summer just speaks bounds about Dickau's worth around the league. If, however, you are so right about him, Dallas will pick up his 4th year option in a few weeks. I wont be holding my breath for that to happen.

[CamEdwards]

bummer. I too am a Najera fan. Good luck in CA, Eddie.

[sachmo71]

He swam the Rio Grande, up to Norman,

Najera! Najera!

[Tex Schramm]

You're right stevew, the Mavs probably shouldn't have given Marquis Daniels a chance either, because no team thought he was worthy of a draft pick. That definitely should have told us all we need to know about his ability.

I never said I was "right" about him. As a fan, I understand that there's a reason I'm a fan and not working in an NBA front office. It bothers me when people are so quick to come out and say, "this guy or that guy can't play because he's a throwin in this trade", or "he's at the end of his pro career because he's been in the league three years and never got to play more than ten minutes in a game", or "he sucks because that's what I read on ESPN Insider". As a football fan you should know that plenty of unheralded, undrafted players have become stars in that league, even after many years of NFL obscurity, and the same applies in any other sport. And Dan Dickau at least showed something good enough in college to warrant being drafted in the first round.

As a fan/spectator, you or I can't hope to realistically analyze a trade and determine whether it's "good" or "bad" based on the talent level of players involved. What we can do is speculate about whether a team acquired *value*, based on its positional needs and the players that are available to fill those needs, along with the parts it has to give up to acquire them. Did the team put itself in a position to get better? I think Dallas did. But I can't say if they are better.

Maybe I'm being a hardass, I'm not trying to be overly critical or jump all over you. But for some reason I just wish people wouldn't assume they're smarter than people working in the front office. Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but it's just ridiculous to come out and say things like that, as if you know what you're talking about.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Tex Schramm

But for some reason I just wish people wouldn't assume they're smarter than people working in the front office. Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but it's just ridiculous to come out and say things like that, as if you know what you're talking about.

Don't hang out around a lot of sports forums, do you?

[rkmsuf]

I'm in the Dan Dickau can't play camp. I don't need to be an expert to form that opinion.

[Tex Schramm]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Don't hang out around a lot of sports forums, do you?

Haha true, that's a good point.

rkmsuf, humor me and tell me why you're so sure Dickau can't play. Have you ever even seen him play?

Everyone deserves a chance to prove themselves. I don't think Dickau has ever gotten that chance in a game. Maybe he isn't good enough to play, but I don't see how you can say that conclusively.

To keep with the NFL analogy, nobody would even know who Kurt Warner was today if Trent Green had played well and never gotten hurt. I think that's a good example of just how well you can evaluate a player based on what he does in practice.

[rkmsuf]

39% shooting. In two seasons has managed to average a whopping 8 minutes a game. He's small and isn't a particularly good passer or lightening fast.

the reason they don't put him in and keep shipping him around is because what he has shown sucks. it's not NBA coaches jobs to do charity work and get everyone in by halftime. either you give the coach a reason to put you in or not. at least give them a reason not to ship you out of town as a salary balancer in deals.

[SunDevil]

The Dallas Mavericks have agreed in principle to a trade that would send forwards Eduardo Najera and Christian Laettner, two future first-round picks and cash to the Golden State Warriors, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher on Tuesday.

Is anyone else wondering about the two future first round picks? Is this guy worth two future first round picks?

[Tex Schramm]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

39% shooting. In two seasons has managed to average a whopping 8 minutes a game. He's small and isn't a particularly good passer or lightening fast.

I've never believed that numbers are an accurate reflection of a player's talent level, but if you want to go that route, let me throw a few stats your way:

Shooting Percentage, Avg. NBA Years 1-3 :
-Jason Kidd: 37%
-Steve Nash: 41%
-Dan Dickau: 39%

Assists Per Minute, Avg. NBA Years 1-3 :
-Jason Kidd: 0.24 APM
-Steve Nash: 0.19 APM
-Dan Dickau: 0.14 APM

Don't interpret this as an argument for Dickau being as good as these players. I'm just arguing that Kidd and Nash's numbers weren't much better (and were worse in some cases, esp. Kidd's shooting percentages) than Dickau's if you take their first three years in the league. So take from it what you will. But I wouldn't hang your hat on statistics, because in this case they kill your argument.

When you say the fact that he hasn't cracked the starting rotation indicates that he doesn't have talent, there may be some truth to that. But you're still using talent evaluation done by other people to make a conclusive argument yourself - which goes back to my original argument. You can't say a player sucks just because other people do.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Tex Schramm

When you say the fact that he hasn't cracked the starting rotation indicates that he doesn't have talent, there may be some truth to that. But you're still using talent evaluation done by other people to make a conclusive argument yourself - which goes back to my original argument. You can't say a player sucks just because other people do.

It's signals Jerry. Signals.

I don't see myself scouting or coaching anytime soon so I guess I'll just have to go on instinct.

[bbor]

Raptors sign Loren Woods.....anyone gimme a scouting report on him?

[JeeberD]

Big, tall, slacker...

[bbor]

Worse than Jerome Moiso?

[JeeberD]

Probably...

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by bbor

Raptors sign Loren Woods.....anyone gimme a scouting report on him?

I guess he didn't make the Bobcats' team.

[Tex Schramm]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

It's signals Jerry. Signals.

I don't see myself scouting or coaching anytime soon so I guess I'll just have to go on instinct.

Fine, have it your way. Your instinct, along with the front-office savvy of the Atlanta Hawks and Golden State Warriors, make a powerful combination.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Tex Schramm

Fine, have it your way. Your instinct, along with the front-office savvy of the Atlanta Hawks and Golden State Warriors, make a powerful combination.

Don't forget Portland. They passed as well.

My instincts are honed though.

[Tex Schramm]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

My instincts are honed though.

Well, the fact that you feel that way goes without saying. You've posted over 4000 messages on this board alone.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Tex Schramm

Well, the fact that you feel that way goes without saying. You've posted over 4000 messages on this board alone.

That's true and I lost posts dammit.

[Tex Schramm]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

That's true and I lost posts dammit.

Well the best thing about sports is talking about sports...

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Tex Schramm

Well the best thing about sports is talking about sports...

For me yes. For others it's probably the cash

[Tex Schramm]

Or you can have the best of both worlds like me, and post on this board all day long while you're at work.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Tex Schramm

You're right stevew, the Mavs probably shouldn't have given Marquis Daniels a chance either, because no team thought he was worthy of a draft pick. That definitely should have told us all we need to know about his ability.

I never said I was "right" about him. As a fan, I understand that there's a reason I'm a fan and not working in an NBA front office. It bothers me when people are so quick to come out and say, "this guy or that guy can't play because he's a throwin in this trade", or "he's at the end of his pro career because he's been in the league three years and never got to play more than ten minutes in a game", or "he sucks because that's what I read on ESPN Insider". As a football fan you should know that plenty of unheralded, undrafted players have become stars in that league, even after many years of NFL obscurity, and the same applies in any other sport. And Dan Dickau at least showed something good enough in college to warrant being drafted in the first round.

As a fan/spectator, you or I can't hope to realistically analyze a trade and determine whether it's "good" or "bad" based on the talent level of players involved. What we can do is speculate about whether a team acquired *value*, based on its positional needs and the players that are available to fill those needs, along with the parts it has to give up to acquire them. Did the team put itself in a position to get better? I think Dallas did. But I can't say if they are better.

Maybe I'm being a hardass, I'm not trying to be overly critical or jump all over you. But for some reason I just wish people wouldn't assume they're smarter than people working in the front office. Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but it's just ridiculous to come out and say things like that, as if you know what you're talking about.

i thought that Dickau would become a serviceable pro as well. But the fact that he came into the league as a college senior, and has not really ever broken into much more than garbage time, signifies to me, at least, that he doesnt possess the ability to play much on the professional level. I know there are guys that buck this system, that rise above the mediocrity, so perhaps he shall be one. I dont think it takes front office knowledge, however, to deem that Dickau has absolutely no value whatsoever to either of the teams he was traded to this summer. Witness how he was but a minor footnote in all of the trades he was included in.

It is possible that the Mavs keep him as a 3rd pg, but with the amount of guaranteed contracts on their roster at the current time, it is likely that he will be cut or have a bad case of shin splints(or some equally asinine injury all season) all season, and be used as trade fodder if the Mavs need to.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

But they have to take on Najera and Laettner.

Ouch, I've never liked Laettner and I don't plan on starting now that he plays for the Warriors. Najera is a solid rebounder which we'll need now that Dampier left. Oh yeah, by the way, Mavs fans don't be surprised if Dampier goes back to his old bad self

[Tex Schramm]

Well here we are several months and one trade later, and I think it's fair to say that Dan Dickau has turned into a pretty decent player, hasn't he?

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Tex Schramm

Well here we are several months and one trade later, and I think it's fair to say that Dan Dickau has turned into a pretty decent player, hasn't he?

Can't shoot or pass very well but is getting 30 minutes a game for an awful team. That counts for something I guess; they've won 11 games.

[Ramzavail]

hes having a bunch of good games recently.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3625/gamelog

I bet all of you picked him up in your yahoo leagues, dont lie.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Tex Schramm

Well here we are several months and one trade later, and I think it's fair to say that Dan Dickau has turned into a pretty decent player, hasn't he?

This thread was confusing the heck out of me. I was trying to figure out when/why the Hornets traded him. He has played nicely here even though the team has had a very rough start.

[Swaggs]

I thought Laettner played for the Heat?

When 'Zo signed with them, they did a piece on ESPN about how the top three picks from that draft (Shaq/Zo/Laettner) were all on the same team now.

[INDalltheway]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

This thread was confusing the heck out of me. I was trying to figure out when/why the Hornets traded him. He has played nicely here even though the team has had a very rough start.

I am with you! I was just reading an article about Baron Davis today, and Dickau's player card was in it. The Hornets are playing a lot better if I read the article correctly.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

The Dallas Mavericks have agreed in principle to a trade that would send forwards Eduardo Najera and Christian Laettner, two future first-round picks and cash to the Golden State Warriors, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher on Tuesday.

Is anyone else wondering about the two future first round picks? Is this guy worth two future first round picks?

Well, if you figure the Mavs are going to have pretty low picks, not really losing a LOT here. We're not talking 2 lottery picks.

[JeeberD]

Dampier has been playing good ball the past few weeks, and the Mavs are doing quite well this season...

Just in case anyone cared.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by INDalltheway

I am with you! I was just reading an article about Baron Davis today, and Dickau's player card was in it. The Hornets are playing a lot better if I read the article correctly.

The Hornets are playing much better in the last month than the early part of the year. They have a fun style that is decent to watch even when they are losing.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Tex Schramm

Well here we are several months and one trade later, and I think it's fair to say that Dan Dickau has turned into a pretty decent player, hasn't he?

Hes the starting PG on one of the worst teams in the league. And thats only cause the starter was/is hurt. He's saving his career, yes, but he's still a borderline rotation player on 85-90% of the teams in the league.

[Tex Schramm]

Well you could be right...I was joking a little because of how heated I remember this discussion getting, lol.

But it does seem like he's come on a little bit. Plus, this is the first time he's ever seen solid minutes so really you might look at him like a rookie. Pretty impressive so far I think.

I just have this nagging feeling that he's one of those players that comes back to bite you (the Mavericks), a throw-in on some deal that turns into an All-Star a year later. I sure hope not, considering we pretty much sent him to NO and got Darrell Armstrong in return.

[JeeberD]

Not like the Mavs really needed another young PG though, Tex. I think Devin Harris is gonna do just fine for them down the road...