A Good Article on 300 Wins

Easy Mac · 08-18-2004, 06:15 PM

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...examining-300/
It was linked to on baseball primer, and I just wanted to see what you guys thought about it. Its weird how similar Maddux and Clemens were in their 20's. And I find it amusing how people consider Clemens a superior pitcher despite Maddux outpacing him by almost 15 wins into their late 30's.

And am I the only one shocked by Sabathia's win total? I mean wow, I had no idea he had that many.

Glengoyne · 08-18-2004, 06:42 PM

This is something I was thinking about the other day. Except I was thinking in terms of my experience with Baseball sims. I have done a fair amount of simming with Puresim, and haven't ever seen a pitcher reach 300 wins. I have had two associations that went for 70+ years, and only had guys reach the 280 win range. These guys were studs. Heads and shoulders above their peers. They all won on the order of half a dozen Cy Young Awards. Yet they wouldn't have reached the "magic" number that guarantees a spot in the HoF.

It made me realize just how great guys like Maddux and Clemens really are. It also makes me wonder why the hell Tommy John still isn't in the hall of fame.

Ksyrup · 08-18-2004, 07:31 PM

I knew a guy in law school who was best friends with Pete Schourek.

Sabathia made his debut before 9-11, meaning no one carefully checked to see how big he actually was before he graduated from Vallejo High.

Best guesses are instead of 290, he's pushing 330-350.

He's still fucking tall...

Leonidas · 08-18-2004, 07:57 PM

Problem with Sabathia is the has
a) already thrown a ton of innings for his age
b) weighs 300 pounds at age 23 (ie, the guy simply doesn't care of himself)
and c) has already shown some arm problems this year.

I'm an Indians fan and want the best, but I think Sabathia will be an afterthought by the time he hits 30. Baseball Reference.com says his career at this point is most similar to Ray Sadecki, a once very promising player who at some point fell off the charts and became just a decent relief pitcher in his later years.

Lathum · 08-18-2004, 08:40 PM

I think if Sabathia takes a little better care of himself he has a shot. The Indians are a young team who is getting better so he will have win chances.

Mulder has a great shot as well because once the A's can't afford him he'll just go to the Yankees and their offensive machine.

08-18-2004, 07:31 PM	#3
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I knew a guy in law school who was best friends with Pete Schourek. Sabathia made his debut before 9-11, meaning no one carefully checked to see how big he actually was before he graduated from Vallejo High. Best guesses are instead of 290, he's pushing 330-350. He's still fucking tall... __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

08-18-2004, 07:57 PM	#4
Leonidas College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: East Anglia	Problem with Sabathia is the has a) already thrown a ton of innings for his age b) weighs 300 pounds at age 23 (ie, the guy simply doesn't care of himself) and c) has already shown some arm problems this year. I'm an Indians fan and want the best, but I think Sabathia will be an afterthought by the time he hits 30. Baseball Reference.com says his career at this point is most similar to Ray Sadecki, a once very promising player who at some point fell off the charts and became just a decent relief pitcher in his later years. __________________ Molon labe

08-18-2004, 06:42 PM	#2
Glengoyne Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Fresno, CA	This is something I was thinking about the other day. Except I was thinking in terms of my experience with Baseball sims. I have done a fair amount of simming with Puresim, and haven't ever seen a pitcher reach 300 wins. I have had two associations that went for 70+ years, and only had guys reach the 280 win range. These guys were studs. Heads and shoulders above their peers. They all won on the order of half a dozen Cy Young Awards. Yet they wouldn't have reached the "magic" number that guarantees a spot in the HoF. It made me realize just how great guys like Maddux and Clemens really are. It also makes me wonder why the hell Tommy John still isn't in the hall of fame.

08-18-2004, 08:40 PM	#5
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I think if Sabathia takes a little better care of himself he has a shot. The Indians are a young team who is getting better so he will have win chances. Mulder has a great shot as well because once the A's can't afford him he'll just go to the Yankees and their offensive machine.

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