Team USA vs Spain

[stevew]

Did i miss the game, or is it gonna be broadcast this afternoon(us time)? Seems as if a certain team cancer started to hit some shots today.

[Huckleberry]

It was on MSNBC this morning. Taught us nothing we didn't already know. We would still be heavy favorites every tournament if we could shoot.

[Balldog]

What is this all about?


"As the teams left the court, Brown and Spanish coach Mario Pesquera were pointing angrily at each other and had to be separated by their assistants."

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Balldog

What is this all about?


"As the teams left the court, Brown and Spanish coach Mario Pesquera were pointing angrily at each other and had to be separated by their assistants."

****SPOILERS BELOW*****






































There were some contentious calls early in the 4th quarter. Spain really lost their composure right around there and started playing free-wheeling out-of-control basketball. That's when they started to fall behind and couldn't keep up. It was hard to understand what happened because I was watching a Spanish feed and no hablo Espanyol.

Spain were a much better team when (1) they went to Gasol and (2) they played a half-court game. Once they got away from both (early in the 4th Q and on), they really fell apart.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Dola.

Anyone see Duenas for Spain, #12 for Spain? My god. He is seriously the ugliest athlete I have ever seen and I have seen some uglies in my day. He's massive and slow. We kept calling him Treebeard, Lurch, Chewbacca, etc, etc. Impressive.

[Blackadar]

From what I understand, there was a huge disparity in fouls against the USA. True?

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

From what I understand, there was a huge disparity in fouls against the USA. True?

That has been true the entire tournament.

[Celeval]

The wrapup of the finger-pointing, according to local radio:

In international basketball, only a coach can call a timeout, and it has to happen at a dead ball point. With about a minute and change left, the US up by eight, Larry Brown calls for a timeout at the next dead ball. By the time the dead ball happened, it was 20-some-odd seconds left and the US was up 12. The Spanish coach was upset that LB called a timeout in that situation - LB apparently wasn't aware that he could just send the US team right back out on the court to 'skip' the timeout.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by Samdari

That has been true the entire tournament.

100% correct. Of course, this has a lot to do with playing NBA defense, i.e., handchecking, shoving in the back, bumping with your hip on the baseline, etc.

[rkmsuf]

Starbury!

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

100% correct. Of course, this has a lot to do with playing NBA defense, i.e., handchecking, shoving in the back, bumping with your hip on the baseline, etc.

I have not been able to watch much of the tournament, but I did manage to catch the Lithuania game live. The USA was getting hosed, there was a very different standard of what constituted a foul, depending on which team had the ball.

[Huckleberry]

Samdari -

I disagree. The USA got on the wrong end of a few calls, much like Spain in the 4th quarter today. It wasn't a hose job.

The USA players are used to drawing "fouls" by jumping sideways into a defender. The FIBA refs weren't buying it. Meanwhile, the USA players were going after blocks on defense even when they were out of position and were consequently contacting the Lithuanian players' arms and wrists. And, of course, the usual fouls committed by USA players in on-the-ball defense I addressed above.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Samdari - And, of course, the usual fouls committed by USA players in on-the-ball defense I addressed above.

What bothered me is that the exact same contact by Lithuanians on the other end was not called a foul. It was a hose job.

[Gary Gorski]

Congrats USA - thanks for showing up and doing what you're supposed to do. Now go do it two more times and get the gold medal you are supposed to win.

[MIJB#19]

It's called watching sport with a patriotic feeling. If the Dutch soccer team loses to Portugal, it's the refs fault. If they are undeserved winners due to blunders by the refs, it was all based on my country's dominant and most talented soccer team in the world.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of the "USA are looked at different with fouls" sentiments. Not because of the USA part, just because of the patriotic part. I bet the Spanish media will blame it all on everybody but their own players.

[Huckleberry]

Samdari -

Well, intelligent people can disagree on something as subjective as basketball officiating. I don't think we got any more hosed on those type of calls than Lithuania did. Of course, part of my perception on that is our general defensive laziness in that game as shown by our lack of perimeter defense on their shooters.

[CraigSca]

Sarunas Jasikevicius of Lithuania was absolutely lights-out in that game. Can't blame that on the refs.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

It's called watching sport with a patriotic feeling. If the Dutch soccer team loses to Portugal, it's the refs fault. If they are undeserved winners due to blunders by the refs, it was all based on my country's dominant and most talented soccer team in the world.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of the "USA are looked at different with fouls" sentiments. Not because of the USA part, just because of the patriotic part. I bet the Spanish media will blame it all on everybody but their own players.

I am not generally like that. I can recognize when my team commits fouls. I agree with Huckleberry that the way the NBA guys generally play perimeter defense on every possession is a foul in international play. What I saw in the Lithuania game was the US players actually adjusting (by the 4th quarter) and Lithuanians driving by them resulting in a foul call every time - with the US players having their hands at their sides, and presenting no impedance whatsoever to the drive. Then, on the other end of the court, US players had both arms grabbed from behind and there was no foul.

That said, it sounds like the US got the calls today, and Spain did not. I am not trying to speculate on some grand conspiracy to get the US out of the tourney, as the officiating has by all reports been awful for everyone. I just think the 4th quarter of the US/Lithuania game was not called fairly.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I am not generally like that. I can recognize when my team commits fouls. I agree with Huckleberry that the way the NBA guys generally play perimeter defense on every possession is a foul in international play. What I saw in the Lithuania game was the US players actually adjusting (by the 4th quarter) and Lithuanians driving by them resulting in a foul call every time - with the US players having their hands at their sides, and presenting no impedance whatsoever to the drive. Then, on the other end of the court, US players had both arms grabbed from behind and there was no foul.

That said, it sounds like the US got the calls today, and Spain did not. I am not trying to speculate on some grand conspiracy to get the US out of the tourney, as the officiating has by all reports been awful for everyone. I just think the 4th quarter of the US/Lithuania game was not called fairly.

I wasn't replying to your post alone, though it did initiate me to reply.
I don't watch basketball, have no idea what the difference is between NBA and Olympic basketball, but since the tournament began, I've read so many "bad calls" replies in the "USA Basketball" threads, I decided to reply.

So far, I found it the unavoidable and easy way out to explain the disappointing results from this new instance of the Dream Team. There's been so much not thought out replies on this topic, it's hard to tell when people actually took the time and their knowledge as a base for their words.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

I wasn't replying to your post alone, though it did initiate me to reply.
I don't watch basketball, have no idea what the difference is between NBA and Olympic basketball

But with this considered how would you know whether the complaints were justified or what you describe?

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Dola.

Anyone see Duenas for Spain, #12 for Spain? My god. He is seriously the ugliest athlete I have ever seen and I have seen some uglies in my day. He's massive and slow. We kept calling him Treebeard, Lurch, Chewbacca, etc, etc. Impressive.

He is the new Gidza Muresan !

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

Sarunas Jasikevicius of Lithuania was absolutely lights-out in that game. Can't blame that on the refs.

Though he did draw a foul to create a four point play by jumping into a defender. I thought the refs weren't buying that.

But really that call nor any other had less to do with that loss than the US team simply not playing D.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

I wasn't replying to your post alone, though it did initiate me to reply.
I don't watch basketball, have no idea what the difference is between NBA and Olympic basketball, but since the tournament began, I've read so many "bad calls" replies in the "USA Basketball" threads, I decided to reply.

So far, I found it the unavoidable and easy way out to explain the disappointing results from this new instance of the Dream Team. There's been so much not thought out replies on this topic, it's hard to tell when people actually took the time and their knowledge as a base for their words.

Que? You don't watch basketball, nor have a concept of the types of games yet take issue with what people have asserted?

That would be like me weighing in on the volleyball and saying you are all wet in your analysis.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Though he did draw a foul to create a four point play by jumping into a defender. I thought the refs weren't buying that.

Not true. The defender hit his arm on the followthrough. That's a foul.

[Alf]

dola on the game. USA starts shooting well 3 pointers => that is the way to go if they want to rule out this tournament (although they still lack a pure shooter)

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Not true. The defender hit his arm on the followthrough. That's a foul.

Yeah, I had no problem with that call. He jumped up and Jefferson slammed into him. Lucky shot, but defnitely a foul.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Alf

He is the new Gidza Muresan !

He could only hope to be so good. Gheorge was the muthafuckin' MAN!

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Que? You don't watch basketball, nor have a concept of the types of games yet take issue with what people have asserted?

That would be like me weighing in on the volleyball and saying you are all wet in your analysis.

I've watched and played enough basketball to have a basic idea of how the gamew works, yet I couldn't see a difference in Olympic basketball I saw on tv compared to the NBA games I saw on tv.

Still, it's pretty easy to tell the difference between those saying "Bad decission, USA got screwed!" and those saying "If Lebron James makes two steps with the ball in his hand, he wouldn't be called back in the NBA, yet in this Olympic tournament, the referees seem to live the rules more narrowly."

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

I've watched and played enough basketball to have a basic idea of how the gamew works, yet I couldn't see a difference in Olympic basketball I saw on tv compared to the NBA games I saw on tv.

Still, it's pretty easy to tell the difference between those saying "Bad decission, USA got screwed!" and those saying "If Lebron James makes two steps with the ball in his hand, he wouldn't be called back in the NBA, yet in this Olympic tournament, the referees seem to live the rules more narrowly."

but that's one of the reasons it is different. Stylistically, the games are very different. I don't hear anyone saying the US is getting screwed because the Olympics refuse to play NBA ball.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

I've watched and played enough basketball to have a basic idea of how the gamew works, yet I couldn't see a difference in Olympic basketball I saw on tv compared to the NBA games I saw on tv.

Your second statement here contradicts the first. If you cannot tell the difference between the NBA and International games, then you clearly have not watched enough to get an idea of how either works.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

but that's one of the reasons it is different. Stylistically, the games are very different. I don't hear anyone saying the US is getting screwed because the Olympics refuse to play NBA ball.

That would be the world upside down. The USA decided to go to the Olympics, the other national teams didn't write in to play in the NBA.
Whether they're playing the correct rules is not the discussion, but they should have been prepraed to play under the so-called different rules.

Originally Posted by Samdari

Your second statement here contradicts the first. If you cannot tell the difference between the NBA and International games, then you clearly have not watched enough to get an idea of how either works.

If you say so...
I wrote I couldn't see the difference, I'm not watching it too closely to see a difference, yet I think I can understand the basics of the game called basketball. If you ask me now what difference I've seen, the only thing I can mention that the NBA is less physical and the opponents let people score without trying much to defend. (But I could have gotten that info out of the recent basketball threads too.)

[Alf]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

He could only hope to be so good. Gheorge was the muthafuckin' MAN!

Agreed again. Gheorge played for my French favorite club Pau-Orthez !!!