Possible Bug: Forced Fumbles

DukeRulesMAB · 11-08-2004, 12:35 PM

Has anyone else noticed that forced fumbles seem to be assigned to different players in the game log vs. the box score?

This example from my game in FOFL (multi-player, if that matters):

We forced 3 fumbles.

2-09-MRB24 (00:10) MRB 39 Briner ran inside the left guard for 18 yards.
Tackled by AUS 96 Shepherd.
Ball was fumbled and recovered by AUS 58 Harding for 3 yards to the MRB39.

2-04-AUS41 (11:12) MRB 14 Woods sacked by AUS 98 Hoard for a loss of 5 yards.
Sack allowed by MRB 64 Collins.
Ball was fumbled and recovered by MRB 63 Edwards for 0 yards to the AUS46.

2-15-AUS47 (06:21) MRB 14 Woods sacked by AUS 50 Duffy for a loss of 6 yards.
Sack allowed by MRB 63 Edwards.
Ball was fumbled and recovered by AUS 98 Hoard for 0 yards to the MRB47.

But the box score reads, in relevant parts:

Code:

  Miscellaneous		Fumb	FForc	Recov	MiscTD	KeyRBlk	SckAlwd

   98 Hoard		0	0	1	0	0	0
   37 Camu¤as		0	1	0	0	0	0
   35 Sandoval		0	1	0	0	0	0
   58 Harding		0	0	1	0	0	0
   96 Shepherd		0	1	0	0	0	0

Is this known? I've noticed some oddities, but I've never really looked closely at it before now.

Suicane75 · 11-08-2004, 12:38 PM

I'm not sure what you're getting at. You don't show Edwards line, was he not given credit for a recovery? No matter, I reread your post, I'm not sure that just because someone is listed at the tackler that they create the fumble.

DukeRulesMAB · 11-08-2004, 12:39 PM

Recoveries are fine. Forced fumbles are the problem. Duffy and Hoard should have gotten Forced Fumble credit, but it was given to Sandoval and Camu¤as (my two starting safeties).

Subby · 11-08-2004, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicane75

No matter, I reread your post, I'm not sure that just because someone is listed at the tackler that they create the fumble.

How can you be tackled if you have already fumbled?

The_herd · 11-08-2004, 12:52 PM

If a player is in the process of being tackled and another player comes along and rips the ball loose, then the player that pulls the ball loose gets credit for a forced fumble, not the tackler. I think this is a case of the PBP not being descriptive enough, not a bug.

tauter · 11-08-2004, 12:57 PM

SLURP!

DukeRulesMAB · 11-08-2004, 01:02 PM

It is highly improbable that my safeties were around the ball for not one, but two sacks given that I virtually never blitz them, and one of the sacks was by an already blitzing LB.

Going through my logs for the season, here is every fumble created on a sack:

2-11-AUS50 (02:04) ROY 19 Burdge sacked by AUS 95 Downs for a loss of 5 yards.
Sack allowed by ROY 51 James.
Ball was fumbled and recovered by ROY 77 Toohey for 0 yards to the ROY45.

Box score credits forced fumble to S Camu¤as

2-10-LAS13 (03:39) LAS 17 Fowler sacked by AUS 98 Hoard and AUS 92 Humphrey for a loss of 5 yards.
Sack allowed by LAS 67 Harmon.
Ball was fumbled and recovered by LAS 81 Vance for 0 yards to the LAS08.

Box score credits forced fumble to S Camu¤as

2-06-HDV43 (07:39) HDV 16 Beyer sacked by AUS 98 Hoard for a loss of 8 yards.
Sack allowed by HDV 74 Walters.
Ball was fumbled and recovered by AUS 92 Humphrey for 6 yards to the HDV29.

Box score credits forced fumble to S Sandoval

So in conclusion, every single one of the fumbles my team has created on sacks this year has been credited to a safety. Despite the fact that my safety blitz percentages are 1.0 and 1.0. This is either the biggest coincidence on earth or it is, in fact, a bug.

Suicane75 · 11-08-2004, 01:13 PM

I'm pretty sure that The Herd is spot on here. I would suggest looking over real NFL pbp if you can find it and see if you can find instances of a guy being credited as the tackler and another guy being credited as having forced a fumble.

cuervo72 · 11-08-2004, 01:15 PM

Maybe your safeties are running off one side of the screen and are coming back on the other side of the screen to hit the QB from behind.

cuervo72 · 11-08-2004, 01:17 PM

Dola - and where are these fumbles occuring? If this isn't some officially sanctioned league they don't count anyway.

Scarecrow · 11-08-2004, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Dola - and where are these fumbles occuring? If this isn't some officially sanctioned league they don't count anyway.

This reason makes a hell of alot more sense than Suicane75's first one.

DukeRulesMAB · 11-08-2004, 01:44 PM

Even if one assumes that is the case, that *still* doesn't explain how my non-blitzing safeties forced a fumble on a sack. Every time.

In a quick look through other teams in my league and IHOF's boxes/game logs for today, I have not seen one single example where a fumble forced on a sack was credited to the sacker (or one of the sackers in the case where two teams up). Not one. In 90+% of the cases, the forced fumble on a sack is creditted to a DB.

This is either a bug, or the biggest coincidence ever.

Suicane75 · 11-08-2004, 01:46 PM

Well then you may be right.

tauter · 11-08-2004, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Well then you may be right.

Really? You think so? Dumbass.

cuervo72 · 11-08-2004, 01:49 PM

Duke is something like 283-1 in these matters, and that '1' was played under protest and is pending review by the league office. Of course he's right.

Suicane75 · 11-08-2004, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tauter

Really? You think so? Dumbass.

Excuse me fuckwad?

cuervo72 · 11-08-2004, 01:50 PM

The stick! Hit him with the stick!

(the long defenseman one!)

tauter · 11-08-2004, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Excuse me fuckwad?

I think you read it just fine, douchebag.

Suicane75 · 11-08-2004, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tauter

Really? You think so? Dumbass.

Ok, as a serious and not so hostile or reactionary retort, may I say that my initial skeptiscm of his thinking it was a bug was when the argument was merely about a different guy getting credit for the forced fumble than the tackle.
It did not include his data about Safeties or CB's getting ALL the credit for forced fumbles, so I do, with the data presented stand by my original conclusion. Once I saw said further data it was obvious that there was something else going on. All that being said, blow me.

Suicane75 · 11-08-2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tauter

I think you read it just fine, douchebag.

Well it was hard to see with your mommas fat ass on my face.

tauter · 11-08-2004, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Well it was hard to see with your mommas fat ass on my face.

HAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!! That's the best you can come up with?

tauter · 11-08-2004, 01:56 PM

dola

It must be hard to think with Jim's dick in your mouth.

Suicane75 · 11-08-2004, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tauter

HAHHAHAHAHAHA!!!! That's the best you can come up with?

Yes you dumbass douchebag.

Suicane75 · 11-08-2004, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tauter

dola

It must be hard to think with Jim's dick in your mouth.

Well now that it's apparent you're just a troll I'll leave you be.

cuervo72 · 11-08-2004, 01:59 PM

One of those trolls that we put into a time machine and sent back four years just to get YOU!

sovereignstar · 11-08-2004, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tauter

Really? You think so? Dumbass.

Nice of you to jump into the dialect, groupie.

I fart in your general direction.

The_herd · 11-08-2004, 02:01 PM

Another unimaginative, ignorant, unfunny troll.

Where have all the creative trolls gone?

tauter · 11-08-2004, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Nice of you to jump into the dialect, groupie.

I fart in your general direction.

Thanks! I love it, you should join our club, you'd fit right in. We're elitist you know?

Subby · 11-08-2004, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_herd

Another unimaginative, ignorant, unfunny troll.

Where have all the creative trolls gone?

*raises hand and adjusts stunt dick*

cuervo72 · 11-08-2004, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_herd

Another unimaginative, ignorant, unfunny troll.

Where have all the creative trolls gone?

When the flying fuck has creativity been rewarded here?

tauter · 11-08-2004, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

*raises hand and adjusts stunt dick*

It's not your turn with the stunt dick yet!

Scarecrow · 11-08-2004, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tauter

Thanks! I love it, you should join our club, you'd fit right in. We're elitist you know?

The DCM does seem rather bored today...

sovereignstar · 11-08-2004, 02:09 PM

http://www.thefobl.com/forums

tauter · 11-08-2004, 02:10 PM

And????

heybrad · 11-08-2004, 02:10 PM

Is this the new presence we were looking for?

tauter · 11-08-2004, 02:11 PM

heybrad!

Suicane75 · 11-08-2004, 02:12 PM

Sov, you're handy with an axe right?

cuervo72 · 11-08-2004, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

http://www.thefobl.com/forums

Cool, you can pimp my uniforms for me.

Scarecrow · 11-08-2004, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

http://www.thefobl.com/forums

wait till everyone finds out we kidnapped wig and quicksand....

cuervo72 · 11-08-2004, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

wait till everyone finds out we kidnapped wig and quicksand....

Hey, that was mainly Fritz's idea.

Scarecrow · 11-08-2004, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Hey, that was mainly Fritz's idea.

At least we've also got that FOFC mod.

FishFan · 11-08-2004, 02:17 PM

*yawn*

cuervo72 · 11-08-2004, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishFan

*yawn*

Dude, you need to get that narcolepsy checked out. This is twice now.

tauter · 11-08-2004, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishFan

*yawn*

Ah, go fuck a cheerleader.

MIJB#19 · 11-08-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

When the flying fuck has creativity been rewarded here?

Thanks for the awesome helmet picture you made for my Merchantmen!

FishFan · 11-08-2004, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tauter

Ah, go fuck a cheerleader.

Can't. She's working tonight.

Scarecrow · 11-08-2004, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishFan

Can't. She's working tonight.

That's right - Indy plays on MNF tonight. Which one is she again?

FishFan · 11-08-2004, 02:28 PM

One of the few blondes.

Mel Kiper's Hair · 11-08-2004, 02:30 PM

cuervo!!!!!!

boooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cuervo72 · 11-08-2004, 02:33 PM

whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

11-08-2004, 12:38 PM	#2
Suicane75 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ	I'm not sure what you're getting at. You don't show Edwards line, was he not given credit for a recovery? No matter, I reread your post, I'm not sure that just because someone is listed at the tackler that they create the fumble. Last edited by Suicane75 : 11-08-2004 at 12:40 PM.

11-08-2004, 12:39 PM	#3
DukeRulesMAB College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alexandria, VA	Recoveries are fine. Forced fumbles are the problem. Duffy and Hoard should have gotten Forced Fumble credit, but it was given to Sandoval and Camu¤as (my two starting safeties). __________________ FOBL: Where anyone not in IAP FOFL: I may be the commish, but it's still pretty good.

11-08-2004, 12:52 PM	#5
The_herd College Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fort Lackland, Texas (San Antonio)	If a player is in the process of being tackled and another player comes along and rips the ball loose, then the player that pulls the ball loose gets credit for a forced fumble, not the tackler. I think this is a case of the PBP not being descriptive enough, not a bug. __________________ Oakland Raiders: HFL's 1970 AC West Champs Last edited by The_herd : 11-08-2004 at 12:55 PM.

11-08-2004, 01:02 PM	#7
DukeRulesMAB College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alexandria, VA	It is highly improbable that my safeties were around the ball for not one, but two sacks given that I virtually never blitz them, and one of the sacks was by an already blitzing LB. Going through my logs for the season, here is every fumble created on a sack: 2-11-AUS50 (02:04) ROY 19 Burdge sacked by AUS 95 Downs for a loss of 5 yards. Sack allowed by ROY 51 James. Ball was fumbled and recovered by ROY 77 Toohey for 0 yards to the ROY45. Box score credits forced fumble to S Camu¤as 2-10-LAS13 (03:39) LAS 17 Fowler sacked by AUS 98 Hoard and AUS 92 Humphrey for a loss of 5 yards. Sack allowed by LAS 67 Harmon. Ball was fumbled and recovered by LAS 81 Vance for 0 yards to the LAS08. Box score credits forced fumble to S Camu¤as 2-06-HDV43 (07:39) HDV 16 Beyer sacked by AUS 98 Hoard for a loss of 8 yards. Sack allowed by HDV 74 Walters. Ball was fumbled and recovered by AUS 92 Humphrey for 6 yards to the HDV29. Box score credits forced fumble to S Sandoval So in conclusion, every single one of the fumbles my team has created on sacks this year has been credited to a safety. Despite the fact that my safety blitz percentages are 1.0 and 1.0. This is either the biggest coincidence on earth or it is, in fact, a bug. __________________ FOBL: Where anyone not in IAP FOFL: I may be the commish, but it's still pretty good.

11-08-2004, 01:15 PM	#9
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Maybe your safeties are running off one side of the screen and are coming back on the other side of the screen to hit the QB from behind. __________________ null

11-08-2004, 12:57 PM	#6
tauter n00b Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Minneapolis, MN	SLURP!

11-08-2004, 01:13 PM	#8
Suicane75 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ	I'm pretty sure that The Herd is spot on here. I would suggest looking over real NFL pbp if you can find it and see if you can find instances of a guy being credited as the tackler and another guy being credited as having forced a fumble.

11-08-2004, 01:17 PM	#10
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Dola - and where are these fumbles occuring? If this isn't some officially sanctioned league they don't count anyway. __________________ null

11-08-2004, 01:44 PM	#12
DukeRulesMAB College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alexandria, VA	Even if one assumes that is the case, that still doesn't explain how my non-blitzing safeties forced a fumble on a sack. Every time. In a quick look through other teams in my league and IHOF's boxes/game logs for today, I have not seen one single example where a fumble forced on a sack was credited to the sacker (or one of the sackers in the case where two teams up). Not one. In 90+% of the cases, the forced fumble on a sack is creditted to a DB. This is either a bug, or the biggest coincidence ever. __________________ FOBL: Where anyone not in IAP FOFL: I may be the commish, but it's still pretty good.

11-08-2004, 01:46 PM	#13
Suicane75 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ	Well then you may be right.

11-08-2004, 01:49 PM	#15
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Duke is something like 283-1 in these matters, and that '1' was played under protest and is pending review by the league office. Of course he's right. __________________ null

11-08-2004, 01:50 PM	#17
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	The stick! Hit him with the stick! (the long defenseman one!) __________________ null

11-08-2004, 01:56 PM	#22
tauter n00b Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Minneapolis, MN	dola It must be hard to think with Jim's dick in your mouth.

11-08-2004, 01:59 PM	#25
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	One of those trolls that we put into a time machine and sent back four years just to get YOU! __________________ null

11-08-2004, 02:01 PM	#27
The_herd College Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fort Lackland, Texas (San Antonio)	Another unimaginative, ignorant, unfunny troll. Where have all the creative trolls gone? __________________ Oakland Raiders: HFL's 1970 AC West Champs

11-08-2004, 02:09 PM	#33
sovereignstar Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004	http://www.thefobl.com/forums

11-08-2004, 02:10 PM	#34
tauter n00b Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Minneapolis, MN	And????

11-08-2004, 02:10 PM	#35
heybrad Norm!!! Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Manassas, VA	Is this the new presence we were looking for?

11-08-2004, 02:11 PM	#36
tauter n00b Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Minneapolis, MN	heybrad!

11-08-2004, 02:12 PM	#37
Suicane75 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ	Sov, you're handy with an axe right?

11-08-2004, 02:17 PM	#42
FishFan College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA	yawn

11-08-2004, 02:28 PM	#48
FishFan College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN, USA	One of the few blondes.

11-08-2004, 02:30 PM	#49
Mel Kiper's Hair Banned Join Date: Apr 2003	cuervo!!!!!! boooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

11-08-2004, 02:33 PM	#50
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh __________________ null

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