Player position switch question

[jbmagic]

ON FOF 5.1 , if you switch a player primary position to another position is there any decline of the player rating? will his performance decline in the game?

for example RE to LE, RT to LT, MLB to WLB, CB to FS, etc

thanks

[hukarez]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

ON FOF 5.1 , if you switch a player primary position to another position is there any decline of the player rating? will his performance decline in the game?

for example RE to LE, RT to LT, MLB to WLB, CB to FS, etc

thanks

From the FOF2K4 Help File...

Originally Posted by The ? mark within the FOF2K4 menu, "Change Player Position" topic

Change Player Position Screen
Use the Change Player Position Screen to change a player's position.
Once a position change has been made, it is permanent. This results in a realignment of player attributes.
Generally, when players change position, it's to a very similar position. Players should have no trouble switching from left cornerback to right cornerback, for example. The result should be very similar skills, but a little less experience (green bar).
Generally, players do not make bigger positions. Again, if they do so, it is to a position that requires similar skills. Players will have more success switching to an easier position. Tackles can generally switch to playing the guard position without too much loss of skill. The reverse is not necessarily true. The hardest positions, in order, are quarterback, defensive end, offensive tackle, running back, defensive tackle, wide receiver and cornerback. The easiest are punter, kicker, fullback, tight end and safety.
The success of a change is also determined by a player's weight. A player who is 40 or more pounds from the average weight of players at his new position will likely have less success in making the transition.

[jbmagic]

thanks


what happens if you dont switch there positions but play them in a different position? will it have some affect too?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

thanks


what happens if you dont switch there positions but play them in a different position? will it have some affect too?

Players generally peform pretty well when played out of position. They are penalized some, but it doesn't seem too significant.

Basically, it's probably better to play a guy out of position than switch them permanently.

[jbmagic]

"Basically, it's probably better to play a guy out of position than switch them permanently."


wow thanks
i didnt know there will be a difference if playing them out of position than changing there position permanent...


if that the case i see no reason to really change there position permanent..

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

if that the case i see no reason to really change there position permanent..

The only times I ever change a player permanently are:

1. When they are a rookie and I want to permanently move them somewhere else (Draft a defensive tackle and move him to defensive end, for example). Rookies don't suffer the 'current ratings' hit that veterans do. Still, pay attention to the message about how successful the move would be.

2. When I have to meet roster requirements (for example: you don't have enough inside linebackers, so you move an OLB to ILB).

[fantastic flying froggies]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

if that the case i see no reason to really change there position
permanent..

Common wisdom around here seems to be:
if you want to play a player out of position for a few games, leave him like he is.
If you plan on playing a player out of position long term, ie all season long or more, then make the switch to the new position.

[3ric]

But if the guy is going to play out of position, he won't improve as much. If you're going to keep him for the long term, then change his position. In some cases when switching to a different position group, switching positions actually can increase his ability.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by fantastic flying froggies

Common wisdom around here seems to be:
if you want to play a player out of position for a few games, leave him like he is.
If you plan on playing a player out of position long term, ie all season long or more, then make the switch to the new position.

I disagree as does my defensive players.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by 3ric

But if the guy is going to play out of position, he won't improve as much.

Does anyone have any evidence to support this? Because I completely disagree.

[jbmagic]

thanks guys..it makes sense now...


only thing i see when playing a player out of position i dont really how much of a hit in rating a player takes playing out of position..

i know what it will be if i do permanent position change because a popup box tells you..

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Does anyone have any evidence to support this? Because I completely disagree.

I onlyhave what I have seen in the IHOF with my team. I think he just improves a little slower as he builds experience in the position he is now playing.

[cthomer5000]

Chubby,

But we actually agree that it is not better to change positions, even if you're going to play a guy out of position full-time?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Chubby,

But we actually agree that it is not better to change positions, even if you're going to play a guy out of position full-time?

Of course. That's a no brainer to me. It's completely stupid to change the guys position, changing the position canharm the ratings while playing him out of position does not (as far as I can tell at least)

[yabanci]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Of course. That's a no brainer to me. It's completely stupid to change the guys position, changing the position canharm the ratings while playing him out of position does not (as far as I can tell at least)

Are you suggesting that Jim programmed the game to give a hit when there's a position change but give a free ride to just playing a guy out of position? That would be a huge loophole and some pretty sloppy programming to persist throughout five versions of the game.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by yabanci

Are you suggesting that Jim programmed the game to give a hit when there's a position change but give a free ride to just playing a guy out of position? That would be a huge loophole and some pretty sloppy programming to persist throughout five versions of the game.

I am suggesting Jim didn't plan on people playing Safeties at LB and OLBs at DE. However, as he is well aware of that tactic (since I proudly brag about the Double Nickel being the #1 D in the IHOF) I'm sure he feels it isn't a big deal.

As I said, I think players develop a little slower being played out of position as they build experience in that position (they already have some at their stated position when drafted),

[fantastic flying froggies]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I am suggesting Jim didn't plan on people playing Safeties at LB and OLBs at DE.

If he hadn't planned it, you would simply not be able to insert those players in the depth charts.

However, as he is well aware of that tactic (since I proudly brag about the Double Nickel being the #1 D in the IHOF) I'm sure he feels it isn't a big deal.

This is the defense that just gave up 42 points against New Plainfield, correct ?
So yeah, you're right about that, it really is no big deal...

[yabanci]

I find it hard to believe that Jim was not smart enough to forsee that people would play guys out of position. And even if he was not, I find it hard to believe he didn't pick up a clue over the last five years.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by fantastic flying froggies

If he hadn't planned it, you would simply not be able to insert those players in the depth charts.

This is the defense that just gave up 42 points against New Plainfield, correct ?
So yeah, you're right about that, it really is no big deal...

as I explained over there, I protected my injured players in the last game of the season as I had already locked up a playoff spot.

yabanci - as I said, I'm sure he's aware of it but that it's not a big deal. Playing guys out of position may have been a way to keep rosters legal with injuries when it was first implemented.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by yabanci

I find it hard to believe that Jim was not smart enough to forsee that people would play guys out of position. And even if he was not, I find it hard to believe he didn't pick up a clue over the last five years.

so in conclusion moving a player out of position on the depth chart will give you same rating decline if you would of change his position permanent?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

so in conclusion moving a player out of position on the depth chart will give you same rating decline if you would of change his position permanent?

not even close and I doubt he will agree with that.

[yabanci]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

so in conclusion moving a player out of position on the depth chart will give you same rating decline if you would of change his position permanent?

There is no clear answer to that. I believe playing a player out of position causes him to play at a level lower than his displayed ratings, but by how much we don't know. It could be the same as if you were to actually change his position, or it could be more or less. Any "evidence" people proffer is purely anecdotal. But it would be a HUGE loophole if your scout says that if you change a guy's position he will play at 80%, but if you just play him out of position he will play at 100%. Logic and experience with Jim's games tell me he isn't that stupid and sloppy, so I respectfully disagree with Chubby.

The way I play is if I'm going to temporarily move a guy then I play him out of position. If I'm going to permanetly move a guy, then I change his position. Often when they take a ratings/experience hit after the change, they gain it right back with some playing time at the new position.

[jbmagic]

wow

i really hope this gets fix if its true....

it will be so easy to change player position on depth chart than doing permanent position if the rating decline if any will be less hurtful to the player than doing permanent position...

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by yabanci

There is no clear answer to that. I believe playing a player out of position causes him to play at a level lower than his displayed ratings, but by how much we don't know. It could be the same as if you were to actually change his position, or it could be more or less. Any "evidence" people proffer is purely anecdotal. But it would be a HUGE loophole if your scout says that if you change a guy's position he will play at 80%, but if you just play him out of position he will play at 100%. Logic and experience with Jim's games tell me he isn't that stupid and sloppy, so I respectfully disagree with Chubby.

The key is how much and I think this all depends on experience. A player with a lot of experience at OLB and none at DE will play farther below his ratings at DE than an OLB who has been played at DE for a season already.

As you said, there's no hard evidence of any of this and it's all based on what individuals see.

jbmagic - it's not a bug and I feel Jim is content with how this works otherwise he would have changed things in the recent patches as I'm certain he's aware of it.

[cthomer5000]

I think there is a general penalty for playing out of position (how much, we don't know), but I don't believe that player devlops any more slowly.

[jbmagic]

thanks

just read this in the help file

"Use the Change Position button to bring up a screen for changing the player's primary position. This can only be done prior to the start of the exhibition season. It's a permanent change, so make sure this is something you really want to do before you use this option."

that not true, seems like you can change permanent position any time during the season...

[yabanci]

Originally Posted by Chubby

The key is how much and I think this all depends on experience. A player with a lot of experience at OLB and none at DE will play farther below his ratings at DE than an OLB who has been played at DE for a season already.

As you said, there's no hard evidence of any of this and it's all based on what individuals see.

jbmagic - it's not a bug and I feel Jim is content with how this works otherwise he would have changed things in the recent patches as I'm certain he's aware of it.

yeah, I wouldn't disagree with any of that.

[jbmagic]

anybody know why it lets me change player posiiton permanent during regular season after exhibition game?

the readme says you cant after exhibition games

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

anybody know why it lets me change player posiiton permanent during regular season after exhibition game?

the readme says you cant after exhibition games

I think it's just an error in the readme file. You've always been able to change positions at any time during the season.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I think it's just an error in the readme file. You've always been able to change positions at any time during the season.

Yeah, that definitly isn't a rule in the NFL.


Todd