Lower-End HDTV's

[RPI-Fan]

Hi,

I'm looking at purchasing an HDTV. I really have no clue what kind of things to look out for and/or avoid. Ideally, I'd like to spend between $400-$800. That pretty much seems to make the range of sizes go from 27"-30".

So, in short, does anyone know what makes certain types of HDTV's in that size range better than others? (also, does "HD-Ready" mean I'd need to purchase any extra equipment to view things in HD?)

Thanks in advance,
~kyle

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

Hi,

I'm looking at purchasing an HDTV. I really have no clue what kind of things to look out for and/or avoid. Ideally, I'd like to spend between $400-$800. That pretty much seems to make the range of sizes go from 27"-30".

So, in short, does anyone know what makes certain types of HDTV's in that size range better than others? (also, does "HD-Ready" mean I'd need to purchase any extra equipment to view things in HD?)

Thanks in advance,
~kyle

HD tv ready means that you would have to have extra equipment (if you have cable, they'll give you a new box). I don't think you could get a HDTV with tuner for that price.

[RPI-Fan]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....&type=category

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....1&type=product

Am I misunderstanding what those items are?

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

HD tv ready means that you would have to have extra equipment (if you have cable, they'll give you a new box). I don't think you could get a HDTV with tuner for that price.

I currently have Digital Cable from Timewarner - will they likely charge extra each month for said HDTV box?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

I currently have Digital Cable from Timewarner - will they likely charge extra each month for said HDTV box?

Probably. I don't know since I don't have cable. It might not be extra because you already pay for a box, right? It might just be a switch.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....&type=category

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....1&type=product

Am I misunderstanding what those items are?

Those are HDTV ready, ie. they are compatible with an HDTV tuner or cable box.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Probably. I don't know since I don't have cable. It might not be extra because you already pay for a box, right? It might just be a switch.

Yep.. already am paying for a box.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Those are HDTV ready, ie. they are compatible with an HDTV tuner or cable box.

So before purchasing, the wise move would be to call the cable company and ask what would be needed from them to make the switch?

Also, do you have any idea on what all those spec's on the TV's listed there mean?

[GrantDawg]

This one has a tuner for $699.00.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....1&type=product

[Suicane75]

GD, maybe a dumb question but is there a big picture difference between an HDTV and an HDTV Ready TV that uses a 3rd party (ie: box)? One would assume that a HDTV would provide better picture but i have no idea.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

So before purchasing, the wise move would be to call the cable company and ask what would be needed from them to make the switch?

Also, do you have any idea on what all those spec's on the TV's listed there mean?

Most of them. If you are going to get HDTV from the cable company, save some money and don't get a TV with a tuner. If you get one with a tuner, you are going to most likely need a HDTV attenae.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

GD, maybe a dumb question but is there a big picture difference between an HDTV and an HDTV Ready TV that uses a 3rd party (ie: box)? One would assume that a HDTV would provide better picture but i have no idea.

I really don't think so. The tuner is still a seperate unit even if it is built in the TV. It is like a computer decoder that decodes the HDTV digital signal. A outside box will do the same thing and should be as efficient.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I really don't think so. The tuner is still a seperate unit even if it is built in the TV. It is like a computer decoder that decodes the HDTV digital signal. A outside box will do the same thing and should be as efficient.

Ahh, thats cool. Thanks for the info.

[Ajaxab]

Let us know how this goes RPI. I'm interested to hear about your experience if and when you pull the trigger on this one.

[cougarfreak]

Anyone have HDTV through Dish Network? They are having a special right now that makes it pretty free to get the HD. I have directv and it costs upwards of $350 to upgrade to HD.

[dunkem]

Time Warner in my area lets you upgrade your regular digital cable box up to an HD one for free. They force you to subscribe tot their HD pack (INHD (2 channels),HDNET,HDNet Movies, HD Discovery) though. For a little bit more, you can upgrade to an HD-DVR.. which is fantastic.

There are a lot of low end LCD's and Plasmas for about $2000. I don't particularly care for the 27 to 36" Projection tv's and the huge tube tv's at less than $1000.

[Rich1033]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Anyone have HDTV through Dish Network? They are having a special right now that makes it pretty free to get the HD. I have directv and it costs upwards of $350 to upgrade to HD.

I dont have the money for it, but I helped my parents install a home theater with DishTV over the summer. They got a free upgrade to the HD reciever and free installation. The HD package(HDNET, TNTHD, ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD, ect...) runs around $10/month. They seem very happy with it.

What exactly did you want to know?

[sterlingice]

My dad was looking to do this over Thanksgiving and instead settled on a 32" non-HD television. Basically, on the grounds than any halfway decent tv for 30" ran $700 up to $1000 for the Sony and that's before the $200 tuner for not much difference in quality unless you're a real videophile. Instead, he settled on a 32" flat screen for $350.

SI

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Rich1033

I dont have the money for it, but I helped my parents install a home theater with DishTV over the summer. They got a free upgrade to the HD reciever and free installation. The HD package(HDNET, TNTHD, ESPNHD, DiscoveryHD, ect...) runs around $10/month. They seem very happy with it.

What exactly did you want to know?

With the HD receiver, does that give you the major networks in HD, or do you need a seperate antenna?

[moriarty]

Depends on where you live. With direct TV If you live near a large city, the local broadcasters don't allow you to get the local HD channels (Fox/CBS/NBC) over the satelite. You have to get an antenna. Some quirkly restrictions by the broadcasters.

If you live out in the boonies, you can get at least NBC and CBS HD signals over satellite (not sure on ABC/Fox yet). Again, that's Direct TV, but I assume it's similar for Dish.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by moriarty

Depends on where you live. With direct TV If you live near a large city, the local broadcasters don't allow you to get the local HD channels (Fox/CBS/NBC) over the satelite. You have to get an antenna. Some quirkly restrictions by the broadcasters.

If you live out in the boonies, you can get at least NBC and CBS HD signals over satellite (not sure on ABC/Fox yet). Again, that's Direct TV, but I assume it's similar for Dish.

That's about fucking stupid (and I know it's not satellite providers fault). So if I get an HD antenna, can I just hook it up to my tv w/o a HD receiver?

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

That's about fucking stupid (and I know it's not satellite providers fault). So if I get an HD antenna, can I just hook it up to my tv w/o a HD receiver?

No (at least, not for many tvs), but if you have DirecTV or Dish, their recievers also act as set-top boxes with tuners for over the air signals.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Samdari

No (at least, not for many tvs), but if you have DirecTV or Dish, their recievers also act as set-top boxes with tuners for over the air signals.

Well crap, I might have to go the HD cable route then. I think w/their package, Local HD is included. This whole HDTV thing is bullshit.

[moriarty]

Double check with your local cable company. I'm not sure how they get around the affiliate restrictions of carrying local HD (probably b/c they still carry the local commericals).

Most of the dish/direct tv set top boxes have the antenna line integrated so that you don't have to switch back and forth it just displays on a different channel (e.g. on my tv, direct tv NBC is 4, HD is 4.1). You'll need the box regardless for dish/direct tv.

Depending on where you live (how close to the broadcast signals), an antenna can be your grandma's old bunny ears that you can place in your attic. Then again, you could require a roof top installation too.

The biggest benefit of direct tv (even w/ antenna) vs. cable is 100+ Sunday Ticket games in Hi-def. Awesome.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by moriarty

Double check with your local cable company. I'm not sure how they get around the affiliate restrictions of carrying local HD (probably b/c they still carry the local commericals).

Most of the dish/direct tv set top boxes have the antenna line integrated so that you don't have to switch back and forth it just displays on a different channel (e.g. on my tv, direct tv NBC is 4, HD is 4.1). You'll need the box regardless for dish/direct tv.

Depending on where you live (how close to the broadcast signals), an antenna can be your grandma's old bunny ears that you can place in your attic. Then again, you could require a roof top installation too.

The biggest benefit of direct tv (even w/ antenna) vs. cable is 100+ Sunday Ticket games in Hi-def. Awesome.

BUT, with directv, you have to have a seperate HD antenna. Sunday ticket doesn't interest me, not my cup of tea. God this shit is confusing. Can someone list what i'd need for directv/dish network if I wanted HD channels for CBS, NBC, etc?

[cougarfreak]

Screw it, I think i'm gonna just stay with directv and if and when they get a special for HDTV, I'll get it through them. I'm not gonna pay $350 just to upgrade though. If they don't offer specials and I decide to go HDTV, I'm going through local cable, they offer the networks in HD as part of their package.

[MizzouRah]

I want the new TIVO unit that has a built in DVD burner.

Todd

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

BUT, with directv, you have to have a seperate HD antenna. Sunday ticket doesn't interest me, not my cup of tea. God this shit is confusing. Can someone list what i'd need for directv/dish network if I wanted HD channels for CBS, NBC, etc?

Yeah, welcome to the crazy world of HDTV. If it's any consolation the picture is freakin awesome once you get it.

Here's what you would need for direct tv assuming you have the TV.
1. 3 pronged (LNB?) satelite dish
2. Direct TV HD receiver
3. Subscription to direct TV HD package (5-6 channels for $10/month)

If you live near a big city, you'll need this for the local channels:
1. Antenna (note there's no 'HD' antenna per se, it's just any TV antenna - size and positioniong depends on how far you are from the broadcasting towers). Anywhere from $50 to $400.
2. HD receiver either in TV or outside (if you have the direct tv one, that will suffice)
3. Drop ins to get from your antenna to your set top box (you can combine this w/ your direct tv feed so that you only have one line into the room).

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by moriarty

Yeah, welcome to the crazy world of HDTV. If it's any consolation the picture is freakin awesome once you get it.

Here's what you would need for direct tv assuming you have the TV.
1. 3 pronged (LNB?) satelite dish
2. Direct TV HD receiver
3. Subscription to direct TV HD package (5-6 channels for $10/month)

If you live near a big city, you'll need this for the local channels:
1. Antenna (note there's no 'HD' antenna per se, it's just any TV antenna - size and positioniong depends on how far you are from the broadcasting towers). Anywhere from $50 to $400.
2. HD receiver either in TV or outside (if you have the direct tv one, that will suffice)
3. Drop ins to get from your antenna to your set top box (you can combine this w/ your direct tv feed so that you only have one line into the room).

Thanks, hopefully one day Directv will come down on their prices for the HD receiver. If HD was a must for me........I'd go somewhere else.

[Aylmar]

FWIW, I got HD from DirecTV (receiver, new dish, professional install) for $99 bucks. I've been a subscriber for seven years. I called the rep and told her that I'd just gotten a great offer for HDTV from my cable company and after a bit of consideration, she threw me enough rebates to lower the $350 price to $99. If it doesn't work with the first rep you get, try try again.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Aylmar

FWIW, I got HD from DirecTV (receiver, new dish, professional install) for $99 bucks. I've been a subscriber for seven years. I called the rep and told her that I'd just gotten a great offer for HDTV from my cable company and after a bit of consideration, she threw me enough rebates to lower the $350 price to $99. If it doesn't work with the first rep you get, try try again.

I might give it a shot. Thanks.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Thanks, hopefully one day Directv will come down on their prices for the HD receiver. If HD was a must for me........I'd go somewhere else.

DirecTV is not necesarily the problem. ATSC tuners (which decode over the air HD signals) for OTA signals are quite expensive, and all of the DirecTV HD recievers have them. Look at prices for stand alone HD set top boxes (which only decode OTA signals) and you'll see they can be as expensive as DirecTV's HD recievers. If you buy a tv with the HD tuner built in, you can count on the cost of the set going up that much.

If you want to watch network programs in HDTV, you are going to pay for an HD tuner, whether its up front with a DirecTV, dish, or recieving free OTA signals, or slowly through exorbitant box rental fees through the cable company.

EDIT: I have heard from those at AVS forum that the easiest way to get rebates/deals through DirecTV is not by talking to the CSR that answers the phone, but asking to speak with the customer retention department as soon as you get a human on the phone.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Samdari

DirecTV is not necesarily the problem. ATSC tuners (which decode over the air HD signals) for OTA signals are quite expensive, and all of the DirecTV HD recievers have them. Look at prices for stand alone HD set top boxes (which only decode OTA signals) and you'll see they can be as expensive as DirecTV's HD recievers. If you buy a tv with the HD tuner built in, you can count on the cost of the set going up that much.

If you want to watch network programs in HDTV, you are going to pay for an HD tuner, whether its up front with a DirecTV, dish, or recieving free OTA signals, or slowly through exorbitant box rental fees through the cable company.

EDIT: I have heard from those at AVS forum that the easiest way to get rebates/deals through DirecTV is not by talking to the CSR that answers the phone, but asking to speak with the customer retention department as soon as you get a human on the phone.

Dish network has them for next to nothing, and so does HD cable. You pay a small rental fee (like $2 a month). If directv had that offer, i'd get it in a heartbeat.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Dish network has them for next to nothing, and so does HD cable. You pay a small rental fee (like $2 a month). If directv had that offer, i'd get it in a heartbeat.

Most cable companies charge about $15 a month for rental of their HD boxes, with a much lower advertised price - both for the programming and equipment - that lasts 2-3 months.

Dish does currently have a sweeter deal for getting into HD than DirecTV, but from what I understand, the reciever sucks and most people who get that deal end up wanting to upgrade pretty quickly. Besides, you lose Sunday Ticket that way. I see that you say you are not interested in it. I can tell you this - if that is the case, don't bother getting HD at all. There is not enough programming in it at all, so you will spend a ton of extra money on equipment, and then spend 90% of your tv time watching standard definition programming.

Anyway, I am merely aping/condensing what I read at www.avsforum.com. You would do better to look there for information than here.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Most cable companies charge about $15 a month for rental of their HD boxes, with a much lower advertised price - both for the programming and equipment - that lasts 2-3 months.

Dish does currently have a sweeter deal for getting into HD than DirecTV, but from what I understand, the reciever sucks and most people who get that deal end up wanting to upgrade pretty quickly. Besides, you lose Sunday Ticket that way. I see that you say you are not interested in it. I can tell you this - if that is the case, don't bother getting HD at all. There is not enough programming in it at all, so you will spend a ton of extra money on equipment, and then spend 90% of your tv time watching standard definition programming.

Anyway, I am merely aping/condensing what I read at www.avsforum.com. You would do better to look there for information than here.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

[Rich1033]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Most cable companies charge about $15 a month for rental of their HD boxes, with a much lower advertised price - both for the programming and equipment - that lasts 2-3 months.

Dish does currently have a sweeter deal for getting into HD than DirecTV, but from what I understand, the reciever sucks and most people who get that deal end up wanting to upgrade pretty quickly. Besides, you lose Sunday Ticket that way. I see that you say you are not interested in it. I can tell you this - if that is the case, don't bother getting HD at all. There is not enough programming in it at all, so you will spend a ton of extra money on equipment, and then spend 90% of your tv time watching standard definition programming.

Anyway, I am merely aping/condensing what I read at www.avsforum.com. You would do better to look there for information than here.

I actually like the DishTV reciever. Very easy to use, plus the local channels are listed in the menu with everything else. You can make a few different lists of channels so each person only has to search through the channels they enjoy.

I read about the same reciever complaints before I actually used it, but so far it has been fantastic. The HD channels look awesome(thats with a 60" LCD Wega) and the sound is much better than I expected.

As for cougarfreak's question about local channels, they cost an extra $2 a month(as far as I know everyone is eligibile to recieve them). Im told they are in HD, but they really dont come in with the quality of ESPNHD or the other HD channels. That could just be us, but Id recommend an antenna to anyone. The improvement in quality is worth the money and most recievers will display the channels from the antenna in the main channel listings.

[John Galt]

If you are really thinking of going HD, you should really check out Voom as your satellite option. They use a local antenna for HD locals, but as long as you have reception, they will get it working. I've had Voom for 4 months now and have loved all the HD channels. At the very least, it is worth looking into at voom.com or by reading at avsforum.com.

[MizzouRah]

Just read an article on the best rear projection HDTV (which is the cheapest of the types of HD TV's)

Anyhow, it was a Samsung HL-P5063W.


The review can be found here: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759...129TX1K0000530

I've been wanting a HDTV for quite some time and this one has great reviews and is a DLP set.

Todd

[moriarty]

I'm an owner of a Samsung DLP (older version). Been very pleased with it.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Rich1033

As for cougarfreak's question about local channels, they cost an extra $2 a month(as far as I know everyone is eligibile to recieve them). Im told they are in HD, but they really dont come in with the quality of ESPNHD or the other HD channels. That could just be us, but Id recommend an antenna to anyone. The improvement in quality is worth the money and most recievers will display the channels from the antenna in the main channel listings.

Here's a summary from AVS on the local channel issue. I'm still looking for something that explains the rules on obtaining waivers:

One note: CBS/Viacom has made deals with both Dish and DIRECTV to carry the CBS HDTV feeds on satellite. If you live near a CBS station that is owned by the network, you automatically have a waiver to watch these programs off satellite. If you live near a CBS station that is just an affiliate, you must get a waiver from them to watch CBS HD via satellite.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

I was at Circuit City the other night and it looks like you can pick up a panasonic 26 inch HD for something like 599.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

I was at Circuit City the other night and it looks like you can pick up a panasonic 26 inch HD for something like 599.

To comment on the original topic, buying an "HDTV" with a 4:3 aspect ratio (which is basically all of the low end ones) is insane. Any programming in HDTV (which has a 1.85:1 aspect ratio) will either play in a window, with black bars at the top and bottom (much like a widescreen movie on a 4:3 tv), be compressed horizontally (resulting in the picutre looking smushed) or cropped.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Samdari

To comment on the original topic, buying an "HDTV" with a 4:3 aspect ratio (which is basically all of the low end ones) is insane. Any programming in HDTV (which has a 1.85:1 aspect ratio) will either play in a window, with black bars at the top and bottom (much like a widescreen movie on a 4:3 tv), be compressed horizontally (resulting in the picutre looking smushed) or cropped.

I didn't know there were any 4:3 HDTVs. If that is true, I agree - don't buy them.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Any programming in HDTV (which has a 1.85:1 aspect ratio) will either play in a window, with black bars at the top and bottom (much like a widescreen movie on a 4:3 tv), be compressed horizontally (resulting in the picutre looking smushed) or cropped.

Not to nitpick but ... HDTV is presented in 1.78:1 (16x9). Most movies are filmed in 1.85.1 Either way 4:3 is a bad way to watch both HDTV and movies.

Sorry, carry on.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I didn't know there were any 4:3 HDTVs.

Most of the specific "lower-end" ones linked at the top of this thread were 4:3 tube tvs that were listed as HDTV ready. I did not know they existed either before clicking on the links. I still cannot for the life of me figure out why they exist, but apparently they do.

[RPI-Fan]

Thanks very much to all the replies and great discussion in this thread.

As a followup, I'll mention that because of it I'm going to stray away from HDTV and instead get a 32"-ish flat tube TV. Should still be a delightful upgrade over my 21" CRT (at least I think that's what it uses... either way - "old-school") TV.

Again, Thanks,
~kyle

[RPI-Fan]

We went with the 32" Sony Wega (for $549). Getting it all set up right now - will give more info later tonight (hopefully!).

[MizzouRah]

Good Choice!

I have a 27" Sony Wega and absolutely love it!


Todd

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Good Choice!

I have a 27" Sony Wega and absolutely love it!


Todd

Just FTR, we got the non-HiDef one.

Any specific features you like in particular, or just a nice, crisp picture? How is the sound (our old TV made an awful buzzing sound... 21" RCA from >10 years ago)?

[RPI-Fan]

Well, the TV is incredible!

Unfortunately, the jackasses at Rex gave us the wrong fucking stand and after spending two hours building it, the TV doesn't fit appropriately. They better not give me shit tomorrow when I tell them to build me the RIGHT stand and have it ready for me to pick up tomorrow.