Should Shanahan step down in Denver?

Kodos · 12-06-2004, 03:51 PM

Discuss.

I personally would love to see him step down and then move down to Miami to coach the Fins.

rkmsuf · 12-06-2004, 03:53 PM

Perhaps. It's rare when coaches can stay for that long in the same place. Cohwer is the only contemporary that comes to mind. I'd guess Belichick will hang around for a while as well.

Bowden won't fire him so I'm guessing he isn't going anywhere.

rkmsuf · 12-06-2004, 03:56 PM

Actually Fisher is another who has been there a long time. They are in a similar boat to Denver.

albionmoonlight · 12-06-2004, 03:56 PM

I still think that he is in the top half of coaches in the league, but there is a sense (perhaps all media created) that he is getting a little stale in Denver.

That said, I still don't see why he would leave Denver for another NFL job. Denver has a good owner, good fans, and a new stadium. I don't really see what he would gain in moving.

He might, however, be interested in trying one of the high profile NCAA jobs on for size. That's all I'd leave for if I were he. Which I'm not, so who knows what he will do.

rkmsuf · 12-06-2004, 03:57 PM

I can't believe Shanahan would want to go to college coaching.

Kodos · 12-06-2004, 04:02 PM

Here's an article from the Denver Post.

Decade might be enough

By Mark Kiszla
Denver Post Staff Columnist

San Diego - Nobody in America knows more football than Mike Shanahan. But there comes a time when all the X's and O's begin to look the same, and a coach's message is reduced to white noise.

That time is now for Shanahan and the Broncos. The NFL's most beautiful mind has run out of fresh ideas.

After a 20-17 loss to San Diego, there was nothing new for Shanahan to say about this game, his team or where it all went wrong.

"When it was on the line, we couldn't get it done," said Shanahan, uttering an early epitaph for a season of false hope.

Any coach who understands clock management instinctively realizes when it is time to go.

"There's about a 10-year shelf life in this business, maximum," said Chargers coach Marty Schottenheimer, employed in the NFL since 1975.

The 10th season of Mike Shanahan in Denver seems doomed to end the same disappointing way as every one of his previous five years.

Departing the visitors locker room, Broncos linebacker Al Wilson angrily slam-dunked his playbook into a hamper.

With the team bus waiting, veteran receiver Rod Smith was too peeved to put his angst into words, declaring: "Got nothing to talk about. You saw the game."

We've all seen this performance by the Broncos too many times. A bad bounce here, a dumb turnover there, no luck anywhere. "Kind of the story of the year," Denver safety Kenoy Kennedy said.

Looking for a fresh edge, Shanahan traded for cornerback Champ Bailey, trying to show the NFL his genius also applies to defense. But the results of this bold experiment prove only that the Broncos are not significantly closer to being serious championship contenders than in any season since John Elway retired.

And so it goes. The story grows older every year.

"At the outset, it takes you a few years to get things in place as a coach. Then, if you have the good fortune to be able to stay there for some considerable length of time, it gets easier. But the minute you start getting into year nine and year 10, it becomes more difficult, because you keep trying to find different ways to get your message across," said Schottenheimer, who has won 174 regular-season games as head coach of four NFL franchises. "But try as you might, and I'm an English major, when you get so far down the road, it's pretty hard to find a new way to convey the message."

With a 9-3 record, the Chargers own a two-game lead in the AFC West. Win the division, and San Diego would be the fourth team to be best in the West since 1999. The other recent champions are Oakland, Kansas City and Seattle, which has moved out of the division.

Denver has been just another NFL franchise for longer than Broncomaniacs would like to admit.

Schottenheimer walked away from the Chiefs after 10 years. "I had a great run in Kansas City and could have stayed there," he said. "But I just felt it was time to give somebody else a chance."

Without a doubt, Shanahan has earned the right to determine when and how he wants to leave the Broncos.

Respect, however, has ceased to be the issue. How satisfying can sneaking in the back door of the NFL playoffs be for Shanahan? The pain of one loss bleeds into the next defeat, until a coach goes numb.

"It will hurt for a while, and we'll see what we can do," said Shanahan, a monotone voice carefully dispensed from a poker face. "You don't know what's going to happen down the road. You can take it a game at a time, and figure it out at the end."

As a man obsessed with control, Shanahan understandably hates unfounded rumors and idle speculation about his future. So we offer this as nothing more than a suggestion for a coach who has gone stale:

Notre Dame needs to start acting like an elite football program that's willing to pay the price for success. Shanahan could use a new challenge and gratification that money can't buy.

While it is conceivable he can discover another 1,000-yard rusher, develop a quarterback who is truly a worthy heir to Elway and maybe lead the Broncos back to the Super Bowl one of these years, the odds are that Shanahan's remaining time in Denver ultimately will end in disappointment.

There is absolutely nothing left for Shanahan to say that the Broncos have not already heard.

Nothing except goodbye.

Desnudo · 12-06-2004, 04:07 PM

I don't know. I do know he's never developed a decent QB while he's been there. And he brought in the schizo Jake Plummer who isn't going to get you to the SB unless you're insanely lucky. They have a great running scheme, but what else? Solid defense, but it never seems dominate to me, good teams move the ball on them. And they fade every year. Granted he has the two super bowl wins which is great. But that was working with a talent base brought in by the previous team. I think his inability to develop a QB hurts Denvers playoff hopes every year and is also why they are always so inconsistent down the stretch.

Passacaglia · 12-06-2004, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Article

"There's about a 10-year shelf life in this business, maximum," said Chargers coach Marty Schottenheimer, employed in the NFL since 1975.

Fidatelo · 12-06-2004, 04:34 PM

Given that Shanahan is better than most of the other coaches in the league, and infinately better than the guys not in the league, what would the Broncos gain by getting rid of him?

Desnudo · 12-06-2004, 04:37 PM

Dave Campo?

BigJohn&TheLions · 12-06-2004, 04:49 PM

Marty Morhinweg!

Kodos · 12-06-2004, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Given that Shanahan is better than most of the other coaches in the league, and infinately better than the guys not in the league, what would the Broncos gain by getting rid of him?

I was asking about Shanahan stepping down by himself, not being fired.

yabanci · 12-06-2004, 05:51 PM

what a dumb article. It's about a dumb as all of those that declared how Schottenheimer was washed up as a coach and had to move on because the game had passed him by and the Chargers would never win with him.

vtbub · 12-06-2004, 06:00 PM

Ya know, I've never been impressed with Shanahan as a head coach. He has yet to win a playoff game without John Elway. He wasn't great with the Raiders and has underperformed in recent years.

I don't think he's a bad coach like Martz or Haslett, but he's not in Belichek or Reid's league either.

I think it's time for him and the Broncos to move on, like as Holmgren's OC in New Orleans next year.

Sharpieman · 12-06-2004, 08:44 PM

I hope Holmgren gets fired by Seattle. Maybe the Niners will pick him up.

panerd · 12-06-2004, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yabanci

what a dumb article. It's about a dumb as all of those that declared how Schottenheimer was washed up as a coach and had to move on because the game had passed him by and the Chargers would never win with him.

Marty and old Roy Williams never let us down when it comes to the playoffs though. Looking for a good investment? Bet heavy against San Diego if they make it to the AFC championship game.

Joe · 12-06-2004, 09:53 PM

no way does Shanahan leave

G-Man · 12-06-2004, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

I hope Holmgren gets fired by Seattle. Maybe the Niners will pick him up.

He may get fired after tonight, but noway is he dumb enough to take on that mess by the Bay and I ain't talking about the silver and black'n blue!

rkmsuf · 12-07-2004, 08:36 AM

He's a great playcaller/game coach but lousy at picking the groceries overall. He has done zero to solve the qb spot or develop a guy. The 2 Superbowls he won were from a previous regimes set of players.

Samdari · 12-07-2004, 10:07 AM

Nobody making $7 million a year should ever quit their job.

judicial clerk · 12-07-2004, 11:56 AM

Getting rid of Shanahan would be a mistake for the Broncos and, as a Raider fan, i hope they do it.

Shanahan always fields a competitive team, and I don't think you can ask for more than this from a head coach. Many factors go into winning a superbowl that are beyond a coaches control. Injuries are paramount among these. Andy Reid is one injury away form going .500 for the rest of the season. A coach also needs the ball to bounce his way in the playoffs. The Pats are probably 5 plays away from being a 3 time superbowl loser instead of a two time champion.

Shanahan has not developed an all-pro QB, but tell me the coaches who have? Bill Walsh? Mike Holmgren? Belicheck? Superstar QBs are hard to come by and that involves as much luck as anything else. Dungy is a good coach, but he is lucky to have Manning. Same goes for Ried, Tice, and Sherman. If Belicheck knew Brady was going to be such a great QB, he probably wouldn't have waited until the 6th round to draft him and he wouldn't have waited until Bledsoe got injured to play him.

Fritz · 12-07-2004, 12:01 PM

is there a coach you don't wat to fire, Kodos?

Kodos · 12-07-2004, 12:51 PM

I don't want to fire Shanahan. I want him for the Dolphins. Where in this thread isn't that clear? I know you're still crying over Wannstedt, but at least read the thread.

Quote:

I personally would love to see him step down and then move down to Miami to coach the Fins.

albionmoonlight · 12-07-2004, 12:54 PM

Don't worry Kodos, I think that Jim Haslet will be available soon to coach the Dolphins. What better way to entice Ricky back into the fold than to hire his old coach?

Kodos · 12-07-2004, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Don't worry Kodos, I think that Jim Haslet will be available soon to coach the Dolphins. What better way to entice Ricky back into the fold than to hire his old coach?

albionmoonlight · 12-07-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kodos

Heh. Really though, who am I to kid a Dophins fan? My team managed to parlay the Ricky Williams draft choices into Jonathan Sullivan, a bust of a DT. And we have only won one playoff game ever. And we suck this year. And there is about an even chance that the team will be in LA in 5 years.

Heck, looked at that way, a few years with Wanny isn't really so bad.

12-06-2004, 03:53 PM	#2
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Perhaps. It's rare when coaches can stay for that long in the same place. Cohwer is the only contemporary that comes to mind. I'd guess Belichick will hang around for a while as well. Bowden won't fire him so I'm guessing he isn't going anywhere. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

12-06-2004, 03:56 PM	#3
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Actually Fisher is another who has been there a long time. They are in a similar boat to Denver. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

12-06-2004, 03:57 PM	#5
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	I can't believe Shanahan would want to go to college coaching. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

12-06-2004, 04:34 PM	#9
Fidatelo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB	Given that Shanahan is better than most of the other coaches in the league, and infinately better than the guys not in the league, what would the Broncos gain by getting rid of him? __________________ "Breakfast? Breakfast schmekfast, look at the score for God's sake. It's only the second period and I'm winning 12-2. Breakfasts come and go, Rene, but Hartford, the Whale, they only beat Vancouver maybe once or twice in a lifetime."

12-06-2004, 04:49 PM	#11
BigJohn&TheLions College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New York	Marty Morhinweg! __________________ In the immortal words of a great alcoholic, "Can't we all just get along?"

12-06-2004, 03:56 PM	#4
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	I still think that he is in the top half of coaches in the league, but there is a sense (perhaps all media created) that he is getting a little stale in Denver. That said, I still don't see why he would leave Denver for another NFL job. Denver has a good owner, good fans, and a new stadium. I don't really see what he would gain in moving. He might, however, be interested in trying one of the high profile NCAA jobs on for size. That's all I'd leave for if I were he. Which I'm not, so who knows what he will do.

12-06-2004, 04:02 PM	#6
Kodos Resident Alien Join Date: Jun 2001	Here's an article from the Denver Post. Decade might be enough By Mark Kiszla Denver Post Staff Columnist San Diego - Nobody in America knows more football than Mike Shanahan. But there comes a time when all the X's and O's begin to look the same, and a coach's message is reduced to white noise. That time is now for Shanahan and the Broncos. The NFL's most beautiful mind has run out of fresh ideas. After a 20-17 loss to San Diego, there was nothing new for Shanahan to say about this game, his team or where it all went wrong. "When it was on the line, we couldn't get it done," said Shanahan, uttering an early epitaph for a season of false hope. Any coach who understands clock management instinctively realizes when it is time to go. "There's about a 10-year shelf life in this business, maximum," said Chargers coach Marty Schottenheimer, employed in the NFL since 1975. The 10th season of Mike Shanahan in Denver seems doomed to end the same disappointing way as every one of his previous five years. Departing the visitors locker room, Broncos linebacker Al Wilson angrily slam-dunked his playbook into a hamper. With the team bus waiting, veteran receiver Rod Smith was too peeved to put his angst into words, declaring: "Got nothing to talk about. You saw the game." We've all seen this performance by the Broncos too many times. A bad bounce here, a dumb turnover there, no luck anywhere. "Kind of the story of the year," Denver safety Kenoy Kennedy said. Looking for a fresh edge, Shanahan traded for cornerback Champ Bailey, trying to show the NFL his genius also applies to defense. But the results of this bold experiment prove only that the Broncos are not significantly closer to being serious championship contenders than in any season since John Elway retired. And so it goes. The story grows older every year. "At the outset, it takes you a few years to get things in place as a coach. Then, if you have the good fortune to be able to stay there for some considerable length of time, it gets easier. But the minute you start getting into year nine and year 10, it becomes more difficult, because you keep trying to find different ways to get your message across," said Schottenheimer, who has won 174 regular-season games as head coach of four NFL franchises. "But try as you might, and I'm an English major, when you get so far down the road, it's pretty hard to find a new way to convey the message." With a 9-3 record, the Chargers own a two-game lead in the AFC West. Win the division, and San Diego would be the fourth team to be best in the West since 1999. The other recent champions are Oakland, Kansas City and Seattle, which has moved out of the division. Denver has been just another NFL franchise for longer than Broncomaniacs would like to admit. Schottenheimer walked away from the Chiefs after 10 years. "I had a great run in Kansas City and could have stayed there," he said. "But I just felt it was time to give somebody else a chance." Without a doubt, Shanahan has earned the right to determine when and how he wants to leave the Broncos. Respect, however, has ceased to be the issue. How satisfying can sneaking in the back door of the NFL playoffs be for Shanahan? The pain of one loss bleeds into the next defeat, until a coach goes numb. "It will hurt for a while, and we'll see what we can do," said Shanahan, a monotone voice carefully dispensed from a poker face. "You don't know what's going to happen down the road. You can take it a game at a time, and figure it out at the end." As a man obsessed with control, Shanahan understandably hates unfounded rumors and idle speculation about his future. So we offer this as nothing more than a suggestion for a coach who has gone stale: Notre Dame needs to start acting like an elite football program that's willing to pay the price for success. Shanahan could use a new challenge and gratification that money can't buy. While it is conceivable he can discover another 1,000-yard rusher, develop a quarterback who is truly a worthy heir to Elway and maybe lead the Broncos back to the Super Bowl one of these years, the odds are that Shanahan's remaining time in Denver ultimately will end in disappointment. There is absolutely nothing left for Shanahan to say that the Broncos have not already heard. Nothing except goodbye.

12-06-2004, 04:07 PM	#7
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	I don't know. I do know he's never developed a decent QB while he's been there. And he brought in the schizo Jake Plummer who isn't going to get you to the SB unless you're insanely lucky. They have a great running scheme, but what else? Solid defense, but it never seems dominate to me, good teams move the ball on them. And they fade every year. Granted he has the two super bowl wins which is great. But that was working with a talent base brought in by the previous team. I think his inability to develop a QB hurts Denvers playoff hopes every year and is also why they are always so inconsistent down the stretch.

12-06-2004, 04:37 PM	#10
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	Dave Campo?

12-06-2004, 05:51 PM	#13
yabanci College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2003	what a dumb article. It's about a dumb as all of those that declared how Schottenheimer was washed up as a coach and had to move on because the game had passed him by and the Chargers would never win with him.

12-06-2004, 06:00 PM	#14
vtbub College Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burlington, VT USA	Ya know, I've never been impressed with Shanahan as a head coach. He has yet to win a playoff game without John Elway. He wasn't great with the Raiders and has underperformed in recent years. I don't think he's a bad coach like Martz or Haslett, but he's not in Belichek or Reid's league either. I think it's time for him and the Broncos to move on, like as Holmgren's OC in New Orleans next year. __________________

12-06-2004, 08:44 PM	#15
Sharpieman Greatly Missed. (7/11/84-06/12/05) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Palo Alto, CA	I hope Holmgren gets fired by Seattle. Maybe the Niners will pick him up.

12-06-2004, 09:53 PM	#17
Joe Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minneapolis	no way does Shanahan leave

12-07-2004, 08:36 AM	#19
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	He's a great playcaller/game coach but lousy at picking the groceries overall. He has done zero to solve the qb spot or develop a guy. The 2 Superbowls he won were from a previous regimes set of players. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

12-07-2004, 10:07 AM	#20
Samdari Roster Filler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cicero	Nobody making $7 million a year should ever quit their job. __________________ http://www.nateandellie.net Now featuring twice the babies for the same low price!

12-07-2004, 11:56 AM	#21
judicial clerk College Benchwarmer Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland, OR	Getting rid of Shanahan would be a mistake for the Broncos and, as a Raider fan, i hope they do it. Shanahan always fields a competitive team, and I don't think you can ask for more than this from a head coach. Many factors go into winning a superbowl that are beyond a coaches control. Injuries are paramount among these. Andy Reid is one injury away form going .500 for the rest of the season. A coach also needs the ball to bounce his way in the playoffs. The Pats are probably 5 plays away from being a 3 time superbowl loser instead of a two time champion. Shanahan has not developed an all-pro QB, but tell me the coaches who have? Bill Walsh? Mike Holmgren? Belicheck? Superstar QBs are hard to come by and that involves as much luck as anything else. Dungy is a good coach, but he is lucky to have Manning. Same goes for Ried, Tice, and Sherman. If Belicheck knew Brady was going to be such a great QB, he probably wouldn't have waited until the 6th round to draft him and he wouldn't have waited until Bledsoe got injured to play him.

12-07-2004, 12:01 PM	#22
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	is there a coach you don't wat to fire, Kodos? __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

12-07-2004, 12:54 PM	#24
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	Don't worry Kodos, I think that Jim Haslet will be available soon to coach the Dolphins. What better way to entice Ricky back into the fold than to hire his old coach?

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