The Yankees

Bomber · 12-08-2004, 12:49 AM

Are in the process of having the worst offseason ever. Womack, Wright, and Milton all apparently have been signed.

mckerney · 12-08-2004, 12:52 AM

And mlb.com just stopped selling these:

DaddyTorgo · 12-08-2004, 12:52 AM

Tony Womack!?!?! Congratulations!

Bomber · 12-08-2004, 12:58 AM

Well I was just informed Milton hasn't been signed yet, so there is still some hope. This Wright deal is just insanity. I'm stunned by it.

stevew · 12-08-2004, 01:01 AM

Wright looked like a fairly good pitcher to me. Why do you dislike him so?

Suicane75 · 12-08-2004, 01:03 AM

The Yankees are slowly sliding towards that mid 80's level of mediocrity.

Bomber · 12-08-2004, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Wright looked like a fairly good pitcher to me. Why do you dislike him so?

He's sucked for most of his career and this past year was with Leo Mazzone in the NL, so I doubt he'll be able to repeat. Especially not with Mel Stottlemyre staying on as the Yanks pitching coach.

Bomber · 12-08-2004, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suicane75

The Yankees are slowly sliding towards that mid 80's level of mediocrity.

Slowly? Fuck that, they just did it in one day.

stevew · 12-08-2004, 01:09 AM

Sportsline had him ranked as the #12 starting pitcher in baseball last season FWIW. Granted the year before he was listed among the worst.

Bomber · 12-08-2004, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Sportsline had him ranked as the #12 starting pitcher in baseball last season FWIW. Granted the year before he was listed among the worst.

Like I said Mazzone and the NL. I just don't see why Lieber's option wasn't picked up.

oykib · 12-08-2004, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

I just don't see why Lieber's option wasn't picked up.

It was an $8 million option. He's not worth close to that in today's market. I'd rather have Milton for that amount (even though resigning Lieber on the open market for two plus incentives would've been best).

Crapshoot · 12-08-2004, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oykib

It was an $8 million option. He's not worth close to that in today's market. I'd rather have Milton for that amount (even though resigning Lieber on the open market for two plus incentives would've been best).

Eric "Fly Ball" Milton ? you're kidding right ?

Win Shares:
Leiber: 11.5
Milton: 8

Take into account further that Milton had Polanco and Rollins (along with Byrd) defensively- while Leiber had WilCairo/ "past a Diving Jeter" and Bernie Williams...

MikeVic · 12-08-2004, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

"past a Diving Jeter"

This cracks me up.

Bomber · 12-08-2004, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oykib

It was an $8 million option. He's not worth close to that in today's market. I'd rather have Milton for that amount (even though resigning Lieber on the open market for two plus incentives would've been best).

You see he wasn't worth $8 million a year, and then Kris Benson signed and now he is. Milton is just horrible, you though Javy let up a lot of home runs just wait till Milton gets in there, he let up 43 last year. Unless the Yankees know something about RJ that we don't this pitching staff is just terrible.

Ksyrup · 12-08-2004, 09:32 AM

I'm convinced that George wants Milton back so he can pretend like the Yankees didn't get completely fleeced for Chuck Knoblauch. If only he had room for Guzman...

John Galt · 12-08-2004, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm convinced that George wants Milton back so he can pretend like the Yankees didn't get completely fleeced for Chuck Knoblauch. If only he had room for Guzman...

As an ex-Yankee fan and a current Nationals fan, I'd gladly support any effort to get Guzman back to the Yanks.

FBPro · 12-08-2004, 10:46 AM

I was glad to see MAZZONE help get Wright's career back on track.....however I predict a 6-13 6.47 era season for him w/o Leo.

lynchjm24 · 12-08-2004, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oykib

It was an $8 million option. He's not worth close to that in today's market. I'd rather have Milton for that amount (even though resigning Lieber on the open market for two plus incentives would've been best).

They should have taken the option and I think Leiber is an overrated pile of doo.

lynchjm24 · 12-08-2004, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

Milton is just horrible, you though Javy let up a lot of home runs just wait till Milton gets in there, he let up 43 last year.

Well he is left-handed so moving from Philadelphia which seems to be a good HR park to NY should help him some. Of course facing DH's won't help him much at all.....

Sharpieman · 12-08-2004, 07:45 PM

Just watch out when they buy Pedro, R. Johnson and Beltran...then go out and buy the Oakland A's and intall their pitching staff and send down the rest of the team to AAA. It could happen.

Crapshoot · 12-08-2004, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Well he is left-handed so moving from Philadelphia which seems to be a good HR park to NY should help him some. Of course facing DH's won't help him much at all.....

Except he gave up more HR on the road last year..

Bomber · 12-08-2004, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpieman

Just watch out when they buy Pedro, R. Johnson and Beltran...then go out and buy the Oakland A's and intall their pitching staff and send down the rest of the team to AAA. It could happen.

We don't want to be like the 2004 Red Sox.

Desnudo · 12-08-2004, 10:49 PM

I really hope Pedro signs somewhere else than Boston, preferably the Mets. Great pitcher in his time, but has a tear in his shoulder, never works out, and is a prima donna.

Crapshoot · 12-08-2004, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I really hope Pedro signs somewhere else than Boston, preferably the Mets. Great pitcher in his time, but has a tear in his shoulder, never works out, and is a prima donna.

Last year- was probably top 5 in the Al. far better than anyone else out there.

Desnudo · 12-08-2004, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Last year- was probably top 5 in the Al. far better than anyone else out there.

And that was last year. To me he's a huge risk. One year older, 200 innings more on the arm and a damaged shoulder. Nevermind that he's a huge clubhouse disruption. If it wasn't for Ortiz, something nuts would have happened this season. I'd rather see them try and get Pavano and someone from the A's staff.

DaddyTorgo · 12-08-2004, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

We don't want to be like the 2004 Red Sox.

Ummmn...sore looser? That quote really...makes no sense Bomber? What were our major acquisitions before 2004?? Schilling? Yeah okay you got us there. Other than that, everyone we signed was a role-player, or marginal-interest free-agent. It's not like we signed Vlad and Schilling and (blanking on the other top free-agents before last year). Not even a legit comparison.

Bomber · 12-09-2004, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Ummmn...sore looser? That quote really...makes no sense Bomber? What were our major acquisitions before 2004?? Schilling? Yeah okay you got us there. Other than that, everyone we signed was a role-player, or marginal-interest free-agent. It's not like we signed Vlad and Schilling and (blanking on the other top free-agents before last year). Not even a legit comparison.

You had Trot Nixon, Jeff Suppan (who played for the Cards), and Schilling (who you acquired) come through your farm system. Plus the first $100 million team to win the WS. If that's not "buying" a ring, what is?

lighthousekeeper · 12-09-2004, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBPro

I was glad to see MAZZONE help get Wright's career back on track.....however I predict a 6-13 6.47 era season for him w/o Leo.

knowing the yankee bats, it'll more like 11-8 6.47 era.

DaddyTorgo · 12-09-2004, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

You had Trot Nixon, Jeff Suppan (who played for the Cards), and Schilling (who you acquired) come through your farm system. Plus the first $100 million team to win the WS. If that's not "buying" a ring, what is?

Yes Nixon, Suppan and Schilling came through our farm system (Suppan and Schilling only so far though). But you're criticizing us for that? Isn't that the Red Sox developing talent (along with Lowe, Varitek, Garciaparra and Arroyo btw) ? Isn't that what we should be encouraging? I guess we'll have to learn with the stigma of "buying" a ring. Oh well, hasn't seemed to adversely affect Yankee fans for all these years so I assume we'll be fine. Regardless, I don't see how you can criticize the Red Sox for having a major part of their team (even more of it if you consider Cabrera and Minky as what we got for Nomar) being "homegrown." Nobody's ever going to win a WS with just players from their farm system, but I think we had a pretty good balance. Still trying to understand what you meant by "we don't want to be the 2004 Red Sox" though? Does that mean you don't want to win? Or that you don't want to win with a large core of homegrown talent (as you're seeming to suggest in the quote above)? Because lord knows you've already bought plenty of rings, so don't let us getting one stop you now.

Desnudo · 12-09-2004, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

You had Trot Nixon, Jeff Suppan (who played for the Cards), and Schilling (who you acquired) come through your farm system. Plus the first $100 million team to win the WS. If that's not "buying" a ring, what is?

I never thought I'd see the day when a Yankees fan accused the Red Sox of buying a ring.

sterlingice · 12-09-2004, 02:38 AM

Wait, wait, wait? Are the Yankees and Red Sox fans arguing about who can buy World Series better?

SI

McSweeny · 12-09-2004, 05:38 AM

all i know is that there are 4 year old kids walking around New York who have never seen the Yankees win a World Series

korme · 12-09-2004, 06:04 AM

funny, but, there are like 80 year olds (and neuqua) walking about Chicago who have never seen the cubbies win a world series

sterlingice · 12-09-2004, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

funny, but, there are like 80 year olds (and neuqua) walking about Chicago who have never seen the cubbies win a world series

*points shorty towards the sarcasam detetctor repair shop*

SI

MikeVic · 12-09-2004, 10:03 AM

Yankees fan complaining about the Red Sox buying a ring? What is this world coming to?

Galaril · 12-09-2004, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I never thought I'd see the day when a Yankees fan accused the Red Sox of buying a ring.

Bomber · 12-09-2004, 10:46 AM

There was more key homegrown talent on the Yankees WS champs of the 90s than on the 2004 Red Sox. Its a fact. Only Nixon and Nomar were drafted or signed as amateurs by the Sox. Compared to Jeter, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada, and Rivera (which is still the core of the Yankees).

rkmsuf · 12-09-2004, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

There was more key homegrown talent on the Yankees WS champs of the 90s than on the 2004 Red Sox. Its a fact. Only Nixon and Nomar were drafted or signed as amateurs by the Sox. Compared to Jeter, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada, and Rivera (which is still the core of the Yankees).

So? What difference does it make how it's accomplished?

Bomber · 12-09-2004, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

So? What difference does it make how it's accomplished?

It doesn't at all. Its just Sox fans were always so quick to say the Yankees bought their WS rings, when in reality they are far more guilty.

rkmsuf · 12-09-2004, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

It doesn't at all. Its just Sox fans were always so quick to say the Yankees bought their WS rings, when in reality they are far more guilty.

I'd rather see the money they make spent on players rather than into pockets.

It's an asinine arguement either way though.

Suicane75 · 12-09-2004, 11:53 AM

This is the single dumbest argument of all time.

Bomber · 12-09-2004, 12:23 PM

Its not an argument its a fact. Red Sox fans whined for years about how the Yankees only one because of money. Where is the whining when the Sox go and do the same thing?

Desnudo · 12-09-2004, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

It doesn't at all. Its just Sox fans were always so quick to say the Yankees bought their WS rings, when in reality they are far more guilty.

How can you be more guilty? Either you are or you aren't. Typical logic coming from a Yankees fan. Just because Georgy Pordgy's 180 million went to waste this year is no reason to get upset.

JonInMiddleGA · 12-09-2004, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Just because Georgy Pordgy's 180 million went to waste this year is no reason to get upset.

Well, unless your last name happens to be Steinbrenner

Bomber · 12-09-2004, 12:27 PM

The Yankees horrid off-season rolls on has they sign a 35 year old lefty specialist from Japan, Dae-Sung Koo. I'd post his stats, but I'm too embarrassed.

Suicane75 · 12-09-2004, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

Its not an argument its a fact. Red Sox fans whined for years about how the Yankees only one because of money. Where is the whining when the Sox go and do the same thing?

Ok, lemme rephrase that. You are arguing over the dumbest thing ever.

MikeVic · 12-09-2004, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

Its not an argument its a fact. Red Sox fans whined for years about how the Yankees only one because of money. Where is the whining when the Sox go and do the same thing?

The Yankees have been doing it for a few years. Always out-doing themselves. The Red Sox have spent a nice coin this year and won a World Series. There's a difference between shelling out ridiculous money year after year, and shelling out money one year to win a World Series and break a curse/slump.

The former makes you one of the most hated teams in sports, and the later makes baseball fans cheer for you when you finally win.

Bomber · 12-09-2004, 12:43 PM

You're right the Yankees were totally doing that when they were winning World Series. Dumbass.

DaddyTorgo · 12-09-2004, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber

There was more key homegrown talent on the Yankees WS champs of the 90s than on the 2004 Red Sox. Its a fact. Only Nixon and Nomar were drafted or signed as amateurs by the Sox. Compared to Jeter, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada, and Rivera (which is still the core of the Yankees).

only nixon and nomar were drafted+signed (and arroyo IIRC), but lowe+tek were traded for as minor leaguers. Were Jeter, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada and Rivera ALL drafted or signed as amateurs by the Yanks? Cuz if so that's certainly an accomplishment which we'll give you credit for. As for them still being the core of the Yankees...(I can't resist) is that the Yankees team that hasn't won a WS with a payroll north of 100 million (despite the fact it keeps going up), the same one that hasn't won since 2000? I think in reality you could make a strong argument that a large part of the effectiveness of the 90's Yankees teams wasn't "past a diving Jeter" and "Arthritic Bernie" but was rather Paul O'Neil, Knoblauch and Brosius and the like. The "core" that you have now hasn't won anything in 4 years and in fact was hosed by the Florida Marlins 2 years ago and completed the greatest collapse in sports history this past year. Enough of this "argument" though. Yeah we didn't win by using a team with 40 guys that we drafted and had control of for their whole careers. Guess what...NO TEAM IN THE MODERN ERA HAS DONE THAT BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE WAY BASEBALL IS PLAYED ANYMORE!

Period. End of...argument/discussion/whatever.

Bomber · 12-09-2004, 01:09 PM

That's fine with me, but just so you know Bronson Arroyo was drafted by the Pirates, and played a few games in the bigs for them from 2000-2002, and yes all of those guys were drafted/signed as amateurs by the Yankees.

12-08-2004, 09:32 AM	#15
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I'm convinced that George wants Milton back so he can pretend like the Yankees didn't get completely fleeced for Chuck Knoblauch. If only he had room for Guzman... __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

12-08-2004, 10:46 AM	#17
FBPro College Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SE	I was glad to see MAZZONE help get Wright's career back on track.....however I predict a 6-13 6.47 era season for him w/o Leo. __________________ GM RayCo Raiders-est. 2004-2012 Charter member of the IHOF-RayCo GM GM Tennessee Titans PFL 2011-2014 GM Tennessee Titans FOWL 2020-2025

12-09-2004, 02:38 AM	#31
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Wait, wait, wait? Are the Yankees and Red Sox fans arguing about who can buy World Series better? SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

12-08-2004, 12:52 AM	#2
mckerney Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	And mlb.com just stopped selling these:

12-08-2004, 12:52 AM	#3
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	Tony Womack!?!?! Congratulations!

12-08-2004, 12:58 AM	#4
Bomber High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2004	Well I was just informed Milton hasn't been signed yet, so there is still some hope. This Wright deal is just insanity. I'm stunned by it.

12-08-2004, 01:01 AM	#5
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Wright looked like a fairly good pitcher to me. Why do you dislike him so?

12-08-2004, 01:03 AM	#6
Suicane75 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ	The Yankees are slowly sliding towards that mid 80's level of mediocrity.

12-08-2004, 01:09 AM	#9
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Sportsline had him ranked as the #12 starting pitcher in baseball last season FWIW. Granted the year before he was listed among the worst.

12-08-2004, 07:45 PM	#20
Sharpieman Greatly Missed. (7/11/84-06/12/05) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Palo Alto, CA	Just watch out when they buy Pedro, R. Johnson and Beltran...then go out and buy the Oakland A's and intall their pitching staff and send down the rest of the team to AAA. It could happen.

12-08-2004, 10:49 PM	#23
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	I really hope Pedro signs somewhere else than Boston, preferably the Mets. Great pitcher in his time, but has a tear in his shoulder, never works out, and is a prima donna.

12-09-2004, 05:38 AM	#32
McSweeny College Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Somerville, MA	all i know is that there are 4 year old kids walking around New York who have never seen the Yankees win a World Series

12-09-2004, 06:04 AM	#33
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	funny, but, there are like 80 year olds (and neuqua) walking about Chicago who have never seen the cubbies win a world series

12-09-2004, 10:03 AM	#35
MikeVic Head Coach Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Hometown of Canada	Yankees fan complaining about the Red Sox buying a ring? What is this world coming to?

12-09-2004, 10:46 AM	#37
Bomber High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2004	There was more key homegrown talent on the Yankees WS champs of the 90s than on the 2004 Red Sox. Its a fact. Only Nixon and Nomar were drafted or signed as amateurs by the Sox. Compared to Jeter, Bernie, Pettitte, Posada, and Rivera (which is still the core of the Yankees).

12-09-2004, 11:53 AM	#41
Suicane75 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ	This is the single dumbest argument of all time.

12-09-2004, 12:23 PM	#42
Bomber High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2004	Its not an argument its a fact. Red Sox fans whined for years about how the Yankees only one because of money. Where is the whining when the Sox go and do the same thing?

12-09-2004, 12:27 PM	#45
Bomber High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2004	The Yankees horrid off-season rolls on has they sign a 35 year old lefty specialist from Japan, Dae-Sung Koo. I'd post his stats, but I'm too embarrassed.

12-09-2004, 12:43 PM	#48
Bomber High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2004	You're right the Yankees were totally doing that when they were winning World Series. Dumbass.

12-09-2004, 01:09 PM	#50
Bomber High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2004	That's fine with me, but just so you know Bronson Arroyo was drafted by the Pirates, and played a few games in the bigs for them from 2000-2002, and yes all of those guys were drafted/signed as amateurs by the Yankees.

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