In hindsight, much better things i could have spent my $24.95(do not buy WreSpi)

[JeffNights]

So, after looking at the previews and reviews for Wrestling Spirit, i am enthralled. Fire up the demo, nice for the one month gameplay and ok cool.

So i decide to WreSpi my Xmas gift to self this year.

purchase, play, BLAH. I am completely not into this game.
Its repetitive and certainly not for the "casual" wrestling fan.

Why cant i just buy every Gindin game that comes out and be at least content with my purchase than try my luck with this crap?

Refund?

[DaddyTorgo]

bought WrestleSpirit for myself. I think I'd like the game a lot better if (as I posted on the boards over there) there was some way to "fast-forward" between days when you had matches instead of the billions of repetitive "Next show" buttons you have to click. Basically, at this point it just sits there cuz I feel like I'm going to just contribute to getting digititis.

edit: and appararently according to Adam, who responded to my question over there (I hadn't checked in a while) skipping ahead "isn't possible." Oh well. Guess this game is just going to sit there until I need the hard-drive space when I'll write down the elicense codes in case I ever get a desire to play, and then get deleted, because clicking through all those empty days is totally maddening.

waste of 24.95...live n learn I guess. I ought to just go back to TNM. Now there's a goddamn solid game!

[JeffNights]

I posted a question about a refund at thier board. Anybody know if Grey Dog does this?

[DaddyTorgo]

i believe the long and short of it is "no refunds." bah. makes sense though. I doubt Jim would give a refund if someone said they bought FOF and didn't like it. Because there's no real way to ensure they havn't...cracked the copy protection and figured out a way to keep it for themselves and not pay.

[JeffNights]

Such a shame, becasue this game could have been nice.

Skipping forward is "not an option"...why would he design the game like that? Every Sports/entertainment sim i know of allowed you to simulate a certain period of time or a "till next" option.

I;d get carpel tunnel in my index finger if i played a career in Wrestling Spirit.

[DaddyTorgo]

don't know why he'd design a game like that. I figured it was something that could be fixed though, or that i was missing. well that and i had the money to spend, which is why i bought it. pretty silly that it's not an option. digitis...carpel tunnel in the finger, same thing basically (though i know the md's on the board will jump to correct me). Basically yeah...it'd hurt too much to play a career in this damn game. It's not even like the buttons you need to click are all close together!! you have to mouse across half the screen to get to them!! byebye WresSpi

[sabotai]

Tried the demo. It sounded good, but one of things I had a problem with was the "next day" over and over again. All in all, it just felt like a much lesser version of ITP for wrestling.

[stevew]

You bought it without trying the demo first?

[DaddyTorgo]

no, i bought it after trying the demo.

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

bought WrestleSpirit for myself. I think I'd like the game a lot better if (as I posted on the boards over there) there was some way to "fast-forward" between days when you had matches instead of the billions of repetitive "Next show" buttons you have to click. Basically, at this point it just sits there cuz I feel like I'm going to just contribute to getting digititis.

edit: and appararently according to Adam, who responded to my question over there (I hadn't checked in a while) skipping ahead "isn't possible." Oh well. Guess this game is just going to sit there until I need the hard-drive space when I'll write down the elicense codes in case I ever get a desire to play, and then get deleted, because clicking through all those empty days is totally maddening.

waste of 24.95...live n learn I guess. I ought to just go back to TNM. Now there's a goddamn solid game!

The not being able to move through the days quicker is one of the reasons I haven't been playing the game much at all.

[Danny]

Guys, in regard to why the game does not have a sim forward option, the game is meant to be an RPG, not a pure management game. When playing other RPG's, they don't let me fast forward the game.

I realize this means the game isn't targeted to some of you, but the demo is not misleading. The demo clearly shows what the game is and what it is not. I am sorry if you do not enjoy the game, but there are quite a few people who do. Instead of bashing the game by saying "do not buy", why not list what you feel is wrong with the game and let others decide for themselves?

Regarding the return policy, there are many problems that occur with an online return policy. The company can't afford to survive with a lenient return policy. If you have further concerns, feel free to contact Arlie.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by JeffNights

Such a shame, becasue this game could have been nice.

Skipping forward is "not an option"...why would he design the game like that? Every Sports/entertainment sim i know of allowed you to simulate a certain period of time or a "till next" option.

I;d get carpel tunnel in my index finger if i played a career in Wrestling Spirit.

In Adams defense - not all sports sims do this, FM doesn't for instance.

You might want to suggest to him a 'holiday' mode if he doesn't think a skipping function is possible.

This exists in FM and is like the manager (ie. player) taking a vacation - the game continues until the date you request with all 'human' decisions being made by your assistant using the same code as for the CPU managers.

Hope this helps,

Marc
PS. I think Adams got a lot of potential as a games designer - while you might view it wasted currently your $24 might mean that the next game Adam releases is exactly what you're after, if he doesn't make any money from his current version then simply put their might not be a next one ...

[Arles]

I'll piggy back what Marc Vaughan said. I think the best thing people can do is suggest ideas to developers (like the holliday one). The one advantage people like Marc, Jim, Adam, Gary and myself can do is respond to feedback. While it may not make this version, you can certainly impact features in the next version and potentially the direction of the game as a whole. And, if you have followed Adam's games at all, the one thing he is very good at is taking feedback and improving his game.

As to refunds, Grey Dog does not allow them. What we have tried to do is put out a free, time-independent demo prior to when the game goes on sale to let people try the game and make sure it works on their system before spending their money on the game. The point of a refund is to make sure people don't end up with a game that doesn't work on their machine. And that's the goal of our current policy.

As always, if you guys have any questions on the game or Grey Dog in general, feel free to post on our forums or email me directly ([email protected]).

[JonInMiddleGA]

while you might view it wasted currently your $24 might mean that the next game Adam releases is exactly what you're after, if he doesn't make any money from his current version then simply put their might not be a next one

And then again, it might not mean that either.

I really don't want to come across like I'm beating on Marc here, but since he happened to be the one that said it this time ...

While I understand the logic behind this attitude, I can't help but wonder if I'm the only person that has grown kind of tired of hearing this particular sentiment, or at least hearing it so frequently.

I know, I know, "we've got to support the developers", but at what point do we as consumers get to feel "guilt-free" about calling things like we seem 'em?

Look, if my current biggest client decides he doesn't like the quality of my next project, or the color of paper I use to print reports on, or which side I part my hair on ... well, there might not be a "next project" for us either. And the same thing is true for a lot of small businesses, indepedent contractors, entreprenuers, etc.

But I don't for a moment consider suggesting that I get "mercy business" or that the customer somehow feel guilty about choosing to do something else with their money or telling other potential customers their reaction to the product, and neither do many of the small business people I know either. Yet the textsim gamer sure has heard an awful lot of choruses of this particular song in the past several years.

I'm really not beating on Marc, or any developers in particular here; best I can recall, this is a song that's most often sung by people outside the business instead of inside it. To borrow from the music/radio vernacular, it's just a song that I've really gotten pretty burned out on hearing.

/end consumer mini-rant.

{FTR: Just like I'm not pointing this at Marc directly, it is in no way shape or form directed at Adam, Greydog, or anybody else specifically either. It's pretty much a textsim society-wide thing}

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I ought to just go back to TNM. Now there's a goddamn solid game!

I don't know how much you've kept up with TNM over the past year or so, but FWIW, there's been at least a couple of updates & several new plug-ins released. "Update" probably isn't the right word here, it's really "new version", as in "separate purchase", but I figured it might be worth mentioning.

[spleen1015]

Grey Dog doesn't allow refunds because all of the folks are former .400. TPF generated a lot of refunds and .400 lost money with each refund because ViaTech still got their portion of each sale with each refund.

Not allowing refunds shows me lack of confidence in your product.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Grey Dog doesn't allow refunds because all of the folks are former .400. TPF generated a lot of refunds and .400 lost money with each refund because ViaTech still got their portion of each sale with each refund.

Not allowing refunds shows me lack of confidence in your product.

Grey Dog is setup in a different manner than .400. GDS does not use the whole idea of "preorders". Instead, we have a policy of putting out a fully playable time-independent demo a week in advance before the game even goes on sale. People have the chance to play much of the game for a week before we even allow them to purchase the game. Again, the point of returns is not "buyer's remorse" it's to prevent people from buying a game that is not useable on their PC. We think by letting people play the game for free over a week before we even allow them to buy the game shows a great deal of confidence in our products.

As to Jon's comments, many companies are trying new ideas in this sports game genre (WreSpi, ITP, ..). I think this means that some people will not be used to certain features and/or have us the developers adjust to feedback and other ideas. I think that assuming people will just bare with "inferior" products to get a better future game (thereby giving us a license to make them) is a very dangerous game for us as developers. We do realize that not everyone is going to love each game we make and some may not enjoy some design decisions we make. Still, we want people to enjoy the purchases they make or people will simply stop buying our games. That's why we are quick to respond to feedback, release a demo a week before games go on sale and have a good track record on technical support.

So, even if someone doesn't like certain design calls made in WreSpi or TPB, our hope is that they will let us know their opinion and we can try to make the next version a better product from that standpoint (where possible). But, that is not the same as trying to peddle an inferior product with the hopes that people will buy it out of charity.

[condors]

the game may not be for everyone but i certainly think it was worth the money i spent on it

it is a little rough starting out maybe you should take an established guy in swf and only run the north america promotions. Will take away alot of the clicking

i still enjoy building up a guy into a superstar though so to each his own

[JonInMiddleGA]

Something Arlie said made me feel like I needed to clarify/expand on my earlier comments. It may be that nobody particularly cares about the clarification, but I'll feel better if I do it, maybe help avoid any misunderstandings.

I think that assuming people will just bare with "inferior" products to get a better future game (thereby giving us a license to make them) is a very dangerous game for us as developers.

I'm not sure that I believe too many developers have made that assumption ... yet.
I believe it's certainly more prevelant in other genres/platforms than in sports textsims.
But I've seen/heard enough along the lines of the earlier stuff that I can see where that assumption could be made, if not now, then eventually.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I don't know how much you've kept up with TNM over the past year or so, but FWIW, there's been at least a couple of updates & several new plug-ins released. "Update" probably isn't the right word here, it's really "new version", as in "separate purchase", but I figured it might be worth mentioning.

newer than 7? cuz i have 7 pimped out with all the plugins, and back when i was "into" wrestling, TNM was a godsend. I had huge...multi-month arcs, feds with 100+ cards simmed, etc.

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

newer than 7? cuz i have 7 pimped out with all the plugins, and back when i was "into" wrestling, TNM was a godsend. I had huge...multi-month arcs, feds with 100+ cards simmed, etc.

I still get the odd email about it. It's TNM 7 Second Edition, but I haven't really paid any attention because I haven't been looking for a wrestling game.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

newer than 7? cuz i have 7 pimped out with all the plugins, and back when i was "into" wrestling, TNM was a godsend. I had huge...multi-month arcs, feds with 100+ cards simmed, etc.

You can get full details on the additions, new plug-ins, etc. at
http://www.tnm7.com

The current build is TNM 7 SE, Build 3 ($24.95 thru 12/31/04)
New plug-ins ($5 ea.) for it include: Special Move Wizard, Theme Music Wizard, Weight Class Wizard and other recent plug-ins include Visualizer Image Wizard, Tweak Circ 2nd Edition, Database Cleaner 2nd Ed.

[PilotMan]

Senators game is good for quck entertainment. Havn't messed with the Federation Builder yet, but it's good at killing some time.

And its free.

[DaddyTorgo]

the price is always right when things are free!

[TLK]

TNM was my favorite sim for a long while. Through high school, and into college, I had a 400 card ECW fed. I would kill to see those cards now, if nothing else to laugh at them. I can remember always having to minimize it, anytime my then-girlfriend would be around, out of embarrassment. Those were the days....

[KeyserSoze]

My opinions.

Text-sims games are for a minority. You can like it or not, but it´s what it´s. People that makes these kind of games are little companies or 1 man companies. It means good things and bad things.

Bad ones.

- Game build is slow. The first releases has a lot of bugs.
- Sometimes the graphics are... welll ¿¿DOS??

Good ones.

- Usually are people that really want to make real good games, no money makers games.

- Usually they listen the customers.

A long free trial is, IMHO enough to know if I like a game or not. Maybe is absurd to click for 10 minuts to win a combat (as absurd that click a monster in Halflife) maybe not. For $25 dollars I want at least 50 hours of enjoy, and WreSpi it´s good enough for me.


One question? What is TNM7?? I´ve seen the page, but I dont see any images, or description of the game. Multiplayer, text based? You manage one company, are the owner? Some good person, please more information

[JonInMiddleGA]

Keyser - the best suggestion I have regarding TNM7 might be to download the demo & check it out for yourself. I can try to describe it, but I really think it's a game that you sort of need to experience to really understand. The best description I can come up with is that it is a pro wrestling text sim where you play the role of the owner. You can control every single action if you choose to (all hiring, firing, match outcomes, everything) or you can set up the framework (your roster, matches, etc) and let the game determine winners, losers, etc.