Arena prices - doubling again?!?!

JAG · 01-16-2005, 09:31 AM

1/16/2005 Increased arena expansion costs
As we have previously mentioned, all costs for expanding arenas will be doubled next season. This will take effect 2005-01-31. The costs per seat as well as the fixed cost (currently €30,000 or equivalent) and the cost for removing seats will all be twice as high as they are today. Then, they will double again a season later, on 2005-05-23.

Holy crap. Even though I won't fill out my already-expanded stadium for some time, I think I have no choice (from an economic point of view) but to expand again.

Mr. Wednesday · 01-16-2005, 10:50 AM

We knew they were going to go up again, they had already announced that, just not by how much.

If it hasn't already been done, I think there needs to be a big complaint thread in global about how unfair this is to new teams who aren't seeing their seed money change. Either their initial stadium needs to be more realistic, or else they need to get some kind of a discount on the first purchase they make.

Ajaxab · 01-16-2005, 11:05 AM

Excellent point, Mr.Wednesday.

I also find this a bit bizarre. Had they announced that stadium construction costs were going to quadruple within two seasons, I would have expanded even more than I have this season. I suppose it's fair to all but the newest teams, but it's still something of a stab in the back.

Desnudo · 01-16-2005, 11:21 AM

Just goes to show that you shouldn't let Europeans manage the economy.

ausonny · 01-16-2005, 11:55 AM

For those who haven't seen, this isn't such a big deal for new teams now, as they only get 100 supporters, so they won't be filling the stadiums quite as fast as in the past.

ausonny · 01-16-2005, 12:00 PM

Dola:

I mean to say that it's not as big a deal as it would have been if they were getting 500 supporters, but it's still a big deal. And it still sucks for the rest of us.

Tellistto · 01-16-2005, 12:15 PM

The main problem for new teams is the ability to actually turn a profit and the start up costs involved in starting a training program. Now it'll be impossible to screw it up, cause if you don't start training asap the chances of staying above -500k is rather slim. This will only be made worse by lowering supporter club size for them. As it is, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to make a two week profit with a 7k starter arena. Throw in a season of training and it gets even worse. Add in that you'll have to sell at around outstanding for most types of training, and no new team from this point on will have anything over a 7k stadium for at least 2 seasons.

I almost think they don't want more people to start playing the game...

Tell

ausonny · 01-16-2005, 12:37 PM

Sorry, this rambles a bit.

One problem here is that there is a significant difference to your financial outlook depending on which country you are in. In Sweden's 9th division, the soft cap is so low that beginning with 500 supporters is actually giving an advantage to the new teams. The average fanclub in Division 9 is 355. Division 10 will be lower.

I wouldn't want to have the job of designing a system that is fair for Sweden and any of the smaller countries, even the US. I'm sure a lot of thought went into this, and you have to look at the changes as a whole, not individually. Tell is right, especially in Sweden, Spain, and the other large countries, a training program is an absolute must or you cannot survive, but I don't know of a better solution that would work any better as a whole. Increased ticket prices means a smaller stadium is needed. Maybe they should increase the soft caps? The changes made to attendance and supporter mood should help new teams as well.

I have said all this, but I don't know why the expansion is going to 4 times the current price. A little more explanation from the HT's would be nice.

robbgmaier · 01-16-2005, 03:10 PM

I'm too lazy to do it, but I wonder if anyone has done an analysis as to how far in the future you have to look to decide how big you should build your stadium before the prices go up and up again. I just went up to 80K, and wouldn't be surprised if I'm supposed to have gone higher even though I'm only in division V and hardly a candidate to sellout even 80K. Going from 80 to 100 K in six months is going to cost over 1.5million......

finkenst · 01-16-2005, 03:23 PM

i just upgraded to 65000 and am about to autopromote to IV (hopefully).

should I have gone bigger?

Cosmicjello · 01-16-2005, 04:10 PM

Take a look at this and decide if you want to promote.

From Hattrix

Quote:

league position bonus:

	1	2	3	4
Top Level	750.000 €	495.000 €	375.000 €	188.000 €
Level 2	550.000 €	360.000 €	270.000 €	135.000 €
Level 3	375.000 €	240.000 €	180.000 €	90.000 €
Level 4	240.000 €	150.000 €	120.000 €	60.000 €
Level 5	150.000 €	90.000 €	75.000 €	38.000 €
Level 6	90.000 €	60.000 €	45.000 €	23.000 €
Lower levels	60.000 €	45.000 €	30.000 €	15.000 €

thealmighty · 01-16-2005, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellistto

...I almost think they don't want more people to start playing the game.

Tell, that was exactly my first thought when I read about this.

ausonny · 01-16-2005, 10:01 PM

I guess everyone has seen that teams now begin with 12000 seats. So that takes care of the first expansion.

Qwikshot · 01-17-2005, 03:35 PM

I upgraded again from 60k to 80k...anyone think I did overkill?

ausonny · 01-17-2005, 03:53 PM

I went from 60 to 80, pulled 70 with overcast skies, so I upgraded again to 90. Now that's overkill!

thealmighty · 01-17-2005, 05:27 PM

Upgraded to 65K. First game was yesterday and it sold out.

With 1800 supporters or so, should I expand again? How big is too big?

Qwikshot · 01-17-2005, 06:22 PM

I'm near 1650...I thought it would be wise to expand with the promise of additional raising after this season coming up.

V.56 looks to be a little bit calmed with the presumed promotion of terrors Riddle. Coming in is supposidly a team called the Suffering Bastards.

I think this season will be one of promise, and one I will finally create a dynasty (AND COMPLETE).

Coming soon (maybe)

As an added bonus I may, (may) have a U-20 American on board...which would be awesome.

finkenst · 01-17-2005, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

I'm near 1650...I thought it would be wise to expand with the promise of additional raising after this season coming up.

V.56 looks to be a little bit calmed with the presumed promotion of terrors Riddle. Coming in is supposidly a team called the Suffering Bastards.

I think this season will be one of promise, and one I will finally create a dynasty (AND COMPLETE).

Coming soon (maybe)

As an added bonus I may, (may) have a U-20 American on board...which would be awesome.

WHOA.. the demotee from iv.19 is joining you, Qwikshot.

I just ent to 65k and got 49k in each of the two matches.. perhaps i should go to 85-90.

01-16-2005, 10:50 AM	#2
Mr. Wednesday Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Bend, IN	We knew they were going to go up again, they had already announced that, just not by how much. If it hasn't already been done, I think there needs to be a big complaint thread in global about how unfair this is to new teams who aren't seeing their seed money change. Either their initial stadium needs to be more realistic, or else they need to get some kind of a discount on the first purchase they make. __________________ Hattrick - Brays Bayou FC (70854) / USA III.4 Hockey Arena - Houston Aeros / USA II.1 Thanks to my FOFC Hattrick supporters - Blackout, Brillig, kingfc22, RPI-fan, Rich1033, antbacker, One_to7, ur_land, KevinNU7, and TonyR (PM me if you support me and I've missed you)

01-16-2005, 12:15 PM	#7
Tellistto College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Whitman, MA	The main problem for new teams is the ability to actually turn a profit and the start up costs involved in starting a training program. Now it'll be impossible to screw it up, cause if you don't start training asap the chances of staying above -500k is rather slim. This will only be made worse by lowering supporter club size for them. As it is, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to make a two week profit with a 7k starter arena. Throw in a season of training and it gets even worse. Add in that you'll have to sell at around outstanding for most types of training, and no new team from this point on will have anything over a 7k stadium for at least 2 seasons. I almost think they don't want more people to start playing the game... Tell __________________ FOOL - Ann Arbor Winged Lingerines FOOLX - Portland Axemen Hattrick - Fizzle United (222968)

01-17-2005, 05:27 PM	#16
thealmighty Pro Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: heaven	Upgraded to 65K. First game was yesterday and it sold out. With 1800 supporters or so, should I expand again? How big is too big? __________________ Check out The Unofficial FOFC Movie Guide Here

01-17-2005, 06:22 PM	#17
Qwikshot Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ...down the gravity well	I'm near 1650...I thought it would be wise to expand with the promise of additional raising after this season coming up. V.56 looks to be a little bit calmed with the presumed promotion of terrors Riddle. Coming in is supposidly a team called the Suffering Bastards. I think this season will be one of promise, and one I will finally create a dynasty (AND COMPLETE). Coming soon (maybe) As an added bonus I may, (may) have a U-20 American on board...which would be awesome. Last edited by Qwikshot : 01-17-2005 at 06:23 PM.

01-16-2005, 11:05 AM	#3
Ajaxab College Benchwarmer Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Far from home	Excellent point, Mr.Wednesday. I also find this a bit bizarre. Had they announced that stadium construction costs were going to quadruple within two seasons, I would have expanded even more than I have this season. I suppose it's fair to all but the newest teams, but it's still something of a stab in the back.

01-16-2005, 11:21 AM	#4
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	Just goes to show that you shouldn't let Europeans manage the economy.

01-16-2005, 11:55 AM	#5
ausonny High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Memphis, TN	For those who haven't seen, this isn't such a big deal for new teams now, as they only get 100 supporters, so they won't be filling the stadiums quite as fast as in the past.

01-16-2005, 12:00 PM	#6
ausonny High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Memphis, TN	Dola: I mean to say that it's not as big a deal as it would have been if they were getting 500 supporters, but it's still a big deal. And it still sucks for the rest of us.

01-16-2005, 12:37 PM	#8
ausonny High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Memphis, TN	Sorry, this rambles a bit. One problem here is that there is a significant difference to your financial outlook depending on which country you are in. In Sweden's 9th division, the soft cap is so low that beginning with 500 supporters is actually giving an advantage to the new teams. The average fanclub in Division 9 is 355. Division 10 will be lower. I wouldn't want to have the job of designing a system that is fair for Sweden and any of the smaller countries, even the US. I'm sure a lot of thought went into this, and you have to look at the changes as a whole, not individually. Tell is right, especially in Sweden, Spain, and the other large countries, a training program is an absolute must or you cannot survive, but I don't know of a better solution that would work any better as a whole. Increased ticket prices means a smaller stadium is needed. Maybe they should increase the soft caps? The changes made to attendance and supporter mood should help new teams as well. I have said all this, but I don't know why the expansion is going to 4 times the current price. A little more explanation from the HT's would be nice.

01-16-2005, 03:10 PM	#9
robbgmaier College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2001	I'm too lazy to do it, but I wonder if anyone has done an analysis as to how far in the future you have to look to decide how big you should build your stadium before the prices go up and up again. I just went up to 80K, and wouldn't be surprised if I'm supposed to have gone higher even though I'm only in division V and hardly a candidate to sellout even 80K. Going from 80 to 100 K in six months is going to cost over 1.5million......

01-16-2005, 03:23 PM	#10
finkenst College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: usually sunny SoCal	i just upgraded to 65000 and am about to autopromote to IV (hopefully). should I have gone bigger?

01-16-2005, 10:01 PM	#13
ausonny High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Memphis, TN	I guess everyone has seen that teams now begin with 12000 seats. So that takes care of the first expansion.

01-17-2005, 03:35 PM	#14
Qwikshot Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ...down the gravity well	I upgraded again from 60k to 80k...anyone think I did overkill?

01-17-2005, 03:53 PM	#15
ausonny High School Varsity Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Memphis, TN	I went from 60 to 80, pulled 70 with overcast skies, so I upgraded again to 90. Now that's overkill!

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