Hall of Fame : class of 2005

[Darkiller]

Ok, this is it.
Tomorow will be announced the 2005 class of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
You certainly know the 15 finalists.
Four 1st-year eligible players are among them : Dan Marino, Steve Young, Derrick Thomas and Michael Irvin.

It is a big thing for me obviously, something I've been awaiting for, for many many years. I'm a Steve Young fanatic and can't even sleep right now as I await decision time. All signs (press articles from around the NFL) point to him being elected on the first ballot tomorow but still, I can't help but fear the upset.

So, can you predict the 2005 Hall of Fame class ?
Here is my guess :

- Dan Marino
- Steve Young
- Art Monk
- Michael Irvin
- Roger Werhli

(I have a feeling they want to induct Irvin and if they do so, they can't -once again- pass on Art Monk so my guess is they'll both be voted in).

[Darkiller]

I can't believe no one seems to care about that....

[Axxon]

I don't think Art gets in but maybe his brother Chip will.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I haven't done any research on this topic, but I would be very surprised if Michael Irvin gets in, at least on his first ballot.

[Ragone]

I think they'll put in Derrick Thomas first ballot.. but thats just a hunch

[miami_fan]

I will type fast before they make the announcement. I don't think Irvin gets in. Here is my thoughts

Definitely IN

Marino
S. Young
Thomas
G. Young

Maybe

Monk

[miami_fan]

And the inductees are:

Benny Friedman
Dan Marino
Fritz Pollard
Steve Young

[rkmsuf]

I pity them having to go in with that a-hole Marino.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I pity them having to go in with that a-hole Marino.

You may be the only one.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

You may be the only one.

That's ok. I'll pick up the slack for the rest of you.

[rkmsuf]

I know, I know. No shots at the great Dan Marino lest the Dolphin faithful get their panties in a bundle.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I pity them having to go in with that a-hole Marino.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I know, I know. No shots at the great Dan Marino lest the Dolphin faithful get their panties in a bundle.

It would go well beyond that, fortunately. You never revealed why you have a personal hatred for Dan Marino. Is this a scar from your childhood?

[Draft Dodger]

I think Dan Marino is an asshole. He's also a bonafide Hall of Famer.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

It would go well beyond that, fortunately. You never revealed why you have a personal hatred for Dan Marino. Is this a scar from your childhood?

Never liked the guy. His whole act on the field was weak to me. Never ever did the guy ever throw a bad pass. It was always on target and the receiver did something wrong.

I swear some of those receivers must have wanted to shove a trout down his throat.

I thought he was a very selfish player and deserves much of the blame for this team's failures.

Great passer yes but in my mind a lousy teammate and one who this day is way over the top full of himself.

I'm sure he's an upstanding citizen and I'll hear about all the great charity work he has done but for my money he is and always will be overrated in terms of the whole package a QB brings.

I will now bend over and await the expected floggings from Marino lovers.


Oh, and I bought a pair of Isotoners once and the things ripped the second time I wore them.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I think Dan Marino is an asshole.

If he's an asshole, guys like Michael Irvin, Troy Aikman, Shannon Sharpe, just to name a few, are something far worse.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

If he's an asshole, guys like Michael Irvin, Troy Aikman, Shannon Sharpe, just to name a few, are something far worse.

well, I don't understand how Aikman gets in there, but hell yes, Sharpe and Irvin are both asshats.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Never liked the guy. His whole act on the field was weak to me. Never ever did the guy ever throw a bad pass. It was always on target and the receiver did something wrong.

How many games did you see? I wouldn't say that every incomplete pass was blamed on a receiver, because it simply is an exaggeration. He did this more often when the receivers were young, or inexperienced, and I bet he was usually right. Wouldn't he know more about what they were supposed to do then you?

I swear some of those receivers must have wanted to shove a trout down his throat.

This is a strange thing to swear about, and something I find difficult to believe. However, you seem pretty sure of it...so maybe...

I thought he was a very selfish player and deserves much of the blame for this team's failures.

Many people have different opinions of players like this. He deserves the blame for the defense? He deserves blame for the lack of a running game? Yes, that is quite logical. You must be right.

Great passer yes but in my mind a lousy teammate and one who this day is way over the top full of himself.

Please find me some quotes. I would love to find that evidence that you have seen. I can't recall reading anything like that. Most players who played with or against him have said quite the opposite.

I'm sure he's an upstanding citizen and I'll hear about all the great charity work he has done but for my money he is and always will be overrated in terms of the whole package a QB brings.

Overrated? I urge you to provide an analysis of his entire career and explain what was lacking. If it is compelling, you might convince me.

Oh, and I bought a pair of Isotoners once and the things ripped the second time I wore them.

Yeah, and I tried Sirius Radio once and had problems with the hardware. Beyond that, the service did not convince me it was worth paying monthly for, even if it was Tom Brady's new favorite receiver.

[oykib]

What's up with the Hall and George Young?

If he's not a HoF executive, then nobody is.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

If he's an asshole, guys like Michael Irvin, Troy Aikman, Shannon Sharpe, just to name a few, are something far worse.

I was thinking about how the "asshole" factor is going to affect future inductions. This is one of the reasons I thought Irvin would not make it in on the first ballot. I was shocked that he even made to the final six. The prevailing thought today IMO is that the majority of the future HOF canidates are "un-saint-like" at best, assholes at worst. I wonder how much thought the voters will put into likeability when electing future canidates.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by oykib

What's up with the Hall and George Young?

If he's not a HoF executive, then nobody is.

This, to me, still the biggest upset of the Hall this year.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

How many games did you see? I wouldn't say that every incomplete pass was blamed on a receiver, because it simply is an exaggeration. He did this more often when the receivers were young, or inexperienced, and I bet he was usually right. Wouldn't he know more about what they were supposed to do then you?



This is a strange thing to swear about, and something I find difficult to believe. However, you seem pretty sure of it...so maybe...



Many people have different opinions of players like this. He deserves the blame for the defense? He deserves blame for the lack of a running game? Yes, that is quite logical. You must be right.



Please find me some quotes. I would love to find that evidence that you have seen. I can't recall reading anything like that. Most players who played with or against him have said quite the opposite.



Overrated? I urge you to provide an analysis of his entire career and explain what was lacking. If it is compelling, you might convince me.



Yeah, and I tried Sirius Radio once and had problems with the hardware. Beyond that, the service did not convince me it was worth paying monthly for, even if it was Tom Brady's new favorite receiver.

Oh if I could "prove" any of my opinions I would.

Personally I believe it's a fallacy that during his entire career the Dolphins were incapable of coming up with a running game. Was it necessary to throw something like 600 times every year? I guess.

I've seen many a game where the guy looks like a jackass out there with his pointing and yelling at guys. Maybe I caught all the bad moments. Dunno.


I can only go on what I've personally read and heard from the guy during and after his career. Opinions will differ I'm sure and obviously I wasn't the clubhouse attendant during the time.

Obviously he's a hall of famer. I don't debate that. I just don't feel he was as great as Dan or all of his ball washers would tell you.

Take it easy. It's not necessary to disect every word like you are in biology class.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Was it necessary to throw something like 600 times every year? I guess.

You think those were all audibles then? Half of them? How many were called by him and how many by the coaches?

Marino said that Shula (and others, later on) called every play. He had the freedom to audible, but he was not calling the original play.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

You think those were all audibles then? Half of them? How many were called by him and how many by the coaches?

Marino said that Shula (and others, later on) called every play. He had the freedom to audible, but he was not calling the original play.

No idea. Nobody will know percent of called plays and audibles.

My hypothesis is that if Dan didn't get the ball enough he'd be an unhappy camper. Fits with my perceived profile of the guy.

I find it strange the team never attempted to strive for balance. Particularly with a bad defense.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I find it strange the team never attempted to strive for balance. Particularly with a bad defense.

I watched the SportsCentury on Don Shula the other day. He said something to the effect of regretting that he was never able to put together a running game to compliment Dan Marino's passing ability. If he admits he failed to do it, is it fair to blame Dan for it? We know that JJ failed to find that runningback, because he tried to bring in a new one just about every year he was there. What happened to the guys that JJ cut? They didn't find success anywhere else in the NFL.

I think they wanted that balance, but failed. The failure is only obvious because Dan stood out. If he had been an average QB, the offense would have just been very bad, like the teams who have no passing OR running game. Despite throwing so much, and everyone seeming to know he would be throwing, they only had one losing season during his tenure.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

I watched the SportsCentury on Don Shula the other day. He said something to the effect of regretting that he was never able to put together a running game to compliment Dan Marino's passing ability. If he admits he failed to do it, is it fair to blame Dan for it? We know that JJ failed to find that runningback, because he tried to bring in a new one just about every year he was there. What happened to the guys that JJ cut? They didn't find success anywhere else in the NFL.

I think they wanted that balance, but failed. The failure is only obvious because Dan stood out. If he had been an average QB, the offense would have just been very bad, like the teams who have no passing OR running game. Despite throwing so much, and everyone seeming to know he would be throwing, they only had one losing season during his tenure.

My guess is that Shula and Johnson are not dummies when it comes to football. Had they set their mind on a running game, they could have come up with a running game. Remember, there was no cap back then. I believe there was significant pressure to "give the fans what they came for" and a "don't f-ck with Marino" sentiment after his phenominal start to his career.

I can understand that but I don't believe for a second Dan was in there pleading to Shula or Johnson to get him help out there and go get an every down back. I honestly think he preferred to be the man whether they were equipped to win in the playoffs or not.

Of course this is just an opinion and I can offer no facts to support this other than my personal observations from miles away.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I haven't even read the posts here; and I hate the Dolphins, and don't particularly like Marino; but the guy is clearly a first ballot hall of famer, and one of the best QBs to play the game (top 10). Anybody who wonders differrently is lacking somewhat in football knowledge. Sorry.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

My guess is that Shula and Johnson are not dummies when it comes to football. Had they set their mind on a running game, they could have come up with a running game.

JJ had a revolving door, despite drafting RBs each year. They didn't land a solid RB until Ricky Williams came to town, and even that blew up.

[j51]

They oughtta just stick a sign on the door "No Cowboys allowed".

[Honolulu_Blue]

I'm with RK Smurf. I hate Dan Marino. Mainly for the reasons already debated here. Did he have a great career? Yeah. Great stats? Sure. He always seemed like a bitch. A whiny bitch who was quick to point the finger at everyone else whenever shit started going wrong, which it invetibly would.

Never liked Marino.

[gkb]

Just a quick Marino story. I had a friend in high school who got into a motorcycle accident. His brakes locked up while he was riding down a mountain (we live in Colorado) and he was thrown from the bike. He ended up in a coma for a long time. He was a huge Marino fan so his parents wrote to Dan (this was back in 1987 or 1988) and told him the story. Dan sent a signed jersey and also a casette tape that he recorded for him. The tape just told my friend to hang in there, don't stop fighting, wake up, etc etc etc. I thought it was a very nice thing of him to do...and my friend eventually did come out of his coma.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Oh yeah. There was some special on the NFL Network today called "Dan Marino: Heart of a Champion."

First of all, I've been calling Tom Brady "Heart of a Champion" since the Pats play-off run in 2001. Second, how the hell does Marino have the heart of a champion? What did he ever win?

[Leonidas]

I'm really glad to see some of the old timers get their long over-due. However Roger Wehrli really belongs. 5-time 1st Team All Pro, 40 career picks when QBs hardly ever threw to his side. Imagine Deion, only this guy was a good tackler too. From 1970-1975 he was probably the best coverman in the NFL.

And I'm starting to think Art Monk's window is just about closed. His greatest argument is his amazing career stats, but we are starting to see a bunch of guys pass those numbers. They are no longer as unique as they once were.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

What did he ever win?

Oh! It's not a team game. That is news to me.

He did lead Pitt to a national title, whatever that is worth to you.

[j51]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I'm with RK Smurf. I hate Dan Marino. Mainly for the reasons already debated here. Did he have a great career? Yeah. Great stats? Sure. He always seemed like a bitch. A whiny bitch who was quick to point the finger at everyone else whenever shit started going wrong, which it invetibly would.

[korme]

Dude, how the fuck does Derrick Thomas not go in first ballot? That is a disgrace, fabulous LB career cut short due to death and they can't respect that man's legacy on KC?

Fuck you Hall of Fame. Fuck you.

[cthomer5000]

Thomas probably won't make the HOF, and I'm fine with that. He was very good, but not good enough, IMHO.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Thomas probably won't make the HOF, and I'm fine with that. He was very good, but not good enough, IMHO.

His career numbers have to be stacked up against the career numbers of everyone else. You can't change the standards because of his untimely death. That may be what ultimately keeps him out. A lot of very good players don't make it in, and a lot never make it as far in the balloting as he did this year.

[Riggins44]

As I figured, Marino and Young made it because they are still fresh in the voters mind. I suspect Monk won't make it for quite sometime. It's a popularity contest and he's not popular.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Riggins44

As I figured, Marino and Young made it because they are still fresh in the voters mind. I suspect Monk won't make it for quite sometime. It's a popularity contest and he's not popular.

I wouldn't bet money on him ever making it in.

[Darkiller]

JUST : AWESOME.
I was in tears listening to the verdict.

Congratulations to Steve Young, the greatest QB ever to play.

I've been waiting for this day for 15 years and now it comes.
Steve Young is a 1st ballot Hall of Famer !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fantastic.

I'm overwhelmed right now. I could't ask for more.

[rkmsuf]

Now Ray Finkle, him I'm a big fan of.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Darkiller

JUST : AWESOME.
I was in tears listening to the verdict.

Congratulations to John Elway, the greatest QB ever to play.

I've been waiting for this day for 20 years and now it comes.
John Elway is a 1st ballot Hall of Famer !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fantastic.

I'm overwhelmed right now. I could't ask for more.

Rewind to last year. Fixed that for ya.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Rewind to last year. Fixed that for ya.

Ditto


young was a damned good QB, I won't argue that, but he's far FAR from the best ever.

[fantastic flying froggies]

Damn, now you guys have gone and burst DK's bubble...

He genuinely believes Young is the best QB ever...Let him dream on...

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Oh! It's not a team game. That is news to me.

He did lead Pitt to a national title, whatever that is worth to you.

Ahh... Maybe it was about his college years then. I didn't stick around to watch it. A Pitt national title? It's not worth much to me at all really. Good for Pitt though.

Also when I said "he", it's typically meant to infer "what did a team for which he played quarter back for ever win." I didn't think I had to be that literal though. Few people are.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by j51

Yes. Manning is the Marino of this generation...

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Ditto


young was a damned good QB, I won't argue that, but he's far FAR from the best ever.

Hell, he's not even the best QB ever to play for the 49ers.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Hell, he's not even the best QB ever to play for the 49ers.

True True, Blue

[korme]

Originally Posted by fantastic flying froggies

Damn, now you guys have gone and burst DK's bubble...

He genuinely believes Young is the best QB ever...Let him dream on...

Dude, it's his favorite player. Let it go people, god damn.