Anyone heard of this scam?

KevinNU7 · 02-07-2005, 02:56 PM

That is genious

Axxon · 02-07-2005, 02:57 PM

I first heard about it before the internet so I have no idea if it's an urban legend or not but that's really not the point. I think it's a sweet scam. Supposedly the guy got caught in the end when one of his marks turned him in.

Anyway, he writes a letter that says something to the effect that the reader may not remember him but that the reader had helped him when he was down and out and he wants to reward him. He gives him a football pick and says that if the reader is a betting man he should take a shot on the game.

He picks one game and sends half the letters saying pick team A and half saying pick team B.

After the game, he picks the winning half and repeats the same thing. Pretty soon, he's got a small list of people who've won big with him for a while, then he sends a letter telling how he's down on his luck and needs a helping hand and since he's helped them out so far could they spare some of their winnings.

Supposedly he collected a fair amount of coin but as I said, the story goes he was ratted out. I wonder if anyone else has heard of this at all?

gottimd · 02-07-2005, 02:58 PM

Anybody who falls for that should be required by law to wear a bright yellow jumpsuit that has an arrow on their chest pointed at themselves that says "I'm with stupid".

gstelmack · 02-07-2005, 02:59 PM

That was described in my high school sociology class (back in '84 or '85) as the way to convince people you have psychic powers. The point being it doesn't take long before you've got a handful of people that will SWEAR you're omniscient because you've made 5 or 6 calls correct in a row. Works for football games, stock market predicting, etc.

rkmsuf · 02-07-2005, 03:01 PM

That's how those free pick vegas lines work. Half the callers get one pick, the other half the other pick.

Axxon · 02-07-2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

Anybody who falls for that should be required by law to wear a bright yellow jumpsuit that has an arrow on their chest pointed at themselves that says "I'm with stupid".

Why?

If you don't go insane but bet prudently by the end you've made a great profit if you're on his final list. What's wrong with sending a guy some of that whether he is a football genious, very lucky or a con man. He wasn't after all your money just what you want to send him.

That's the beauty of the scheme IMHO.

Axxon · 02-07-2005, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

That was described in my high school sociology class (back in '84 or '85) as the way to convince people you have psychic powers. The point being it doesn't take long before you've got a handful of people that will SWEAR you're omniscient because you've made 5 or 6 calls correct in a row. Works for football games, stock market predicting, etc.

Very interesting and absolutely true. I hadn't thought of it from that angle.

rkmsuf · 02-07-2005, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxon

Why?

If you don't go insane but bet prudently by the end you've made a great profit if you're on his final list. What's wrong with sending a guy some of that whether he is a football genious, very lucky or a con man. He wasn't after all your money just what you want to send him.

That's the beauty of the scheme IMHO.

Because

a. he's not "down on his luck"

b. you could achieve the exact same results picking out of a hat each week.

Axxon · 02-07-2005, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Because

a. he's not "down on his luck"

b. you could achieve the exact same results picking out of a hat each week.

I agree with a. but it's pretty immaterial.

I disagree with b. Not that you couldn't mind you but you wouldn't and by the time the scam hit you, you would have made money.

Sounds like you were the guy who ratted him out.

Joe · 02-07-2005, 03:10 PM

i'm gonna try this scam. what are you guys' email addresses?

rkmsuf · 02-07-2005, 03:12 PM

Considering you the winner in the scam represent 1% of his action I think it a tad irresponsible to further his campaign.

What about the poor saps who aren't as lucky to be in the "final" group.

Maybe they get 3 of 4 in, believe the guy is the man and bet big on what's nothing but a 50/50 proposition.

Axxon · 02-07-2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Considering you the winner in the scam represent 1% of his action I think it a tad irresponsible to further his campaign.

What about the poor saps who aren't as lucky to be in the "final" group.

Maybe they get 3 of 4 in, believe the guy is the man and bet big on what's nothing but a 50/50 proposition.

Hey, I agree with you on this. Maybe since I'm not a gambling man and wouldn't ever bet more than a trifiling to start and maybe double up the winnings, maybe, I don't see it as a big problem. I just don't see removing a fool from his money as being necessarily a bad thing and until the guy asked for a cut, I'm not sure he did anything illegal and again, the guys he's asked for a cut have or should have already won money with him. He didn't hustle the losers; he simply tempted them and pretty weakly at that.

rkmsuf · 02-07-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxon

Hey, I agree with you on this. Maybe since I'm not a gambling man and wouldn't ever bet more than a trifiling to start and maybe double up the winnings, maybe, I don't see it as a big problem. I just don't see removing a fool from his money as being necessarily a bad thing and until the guy asked for a cut, I'm not sure he did anything illegal and again, the guys he's asked for a cut have or should have already won money with him. He didn't hustle the losers; he simply tempted them and pretty weakly at that.

I'm no legal expert but it seems like the key point here is that he represents himself as an expert. The victims don't know of the true method and if they had their actions may be different.

There are thousands of older folk that fall for the same types of thing every year.

bryce · 02-07-2005, 03:24 PM

i've heard about this scam in relation to the stock market, too.

gottimd · 02-07-2005, 03:26 PM

Like that movie "Boiler Room"?

Axxon · 02-07-2005, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I'm no legal expert but it seems like the key point here is that he represents himself as an expert. The victims don't know of the true method and if they had their actions may be different.

There are thousands of older folk that fall for the same types of thing every year.

That's a good point about the expert thing. Also:

I don't find it that horrible removing money from fools but preying on the elderly is just plain wrong. Not that he did that but yeah, those who'd pull this on the elderly just plain suck.

gottimd · 02-07-2005, 03:30 PM

I have a guy who calls me almost often on my cell phone, and claims to know the guaranteed winner of the game every night, and all I have to do is call him back and pay him mone for the pick. I'm sure he does a similar thing, where he calls a bunch of people and picks a random winner. Its so damn annoying.

Axxon · 02-07-2005, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

I have a guy who calls me almost often on my cell phone, and claims to know the guaranteed winner of the game every night, and all I have to do is call him back and pay him mone for the pick. I'm sure he does a similar thing, where he calls a bunch of people and picks a random winner. Its so damn annoying.

Yeah, but he's an idiot. He should say that if the team wins you owe him money. Otherwise the scam is way too obvious.

gottimd · 02-07-2005, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxon

Yeah, but he's an idiot. He should say that if the team wins you owe him money. Otherwise the scam is way too obvious.

I'm not sure what he does, all I know is that he calls saying he knows the winner and call him back for his pick.

But, how would he be able to collect if the team he picked for you and you bet on wins? Is he gonna go to court for collections?

rkmsuf · 02-07-2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

I'm not sure what he does, all I know is that he calls saying he knows the winner and call him back for his pick.

But, how would he be able to collect if the team he picked for you and you bet on wins? Is he gonna go to court for collections?

Let's just say you ain't going to the People's Court.

Axxon · 02-07-2005, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

I'm not sure what he does, all I know is that he calls saying he knows the winner and call him back for his pick.

But, how would he be able to collect if the team he picked for you and you bet on wins? Is he gonna go to court for collections?

If you entered into a valid contract, written to avoid indemnifying him for losses, why not?

gottimd · 02-07-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxon

If you entered into a valid contract, written to avoid indemnifying him for losses, why not?

An oral contract over the phone involving an illegal activity? So if I buy drugs from a guy over the phone and he sends it to me first, and I don't pay, you're telling me, he could take me to court?

Axxon · 02-07-2005, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Let's just say you ain't going to the People's Court.

If he approaches it like the psychic thing, no representing himself as a football expert but simply providing picks for entertainment value wouldn't it fly? People are still pretty gullible and would see the disclaimers just like any other CYA disclaimers but it wouldn't put much of a dent in their belief factor. That's the thing about people; they want to believe.

Joe · 02-07-2005, 03:42 PM

who bets money on something just because some random guy tells them to? they deserve to lose money.

rkmsuf · 02-07-2005, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxon

If he approaches it like the psychic thing, no representing himself as a football expert but simply providing picks for entertainment value wouldn't it fly? People are still pretty gullible and would see the disclaimers just like any other CYA disclaimers but it wouldn't put much of a dent in their belief factor. That's the thing about people; they want to believe.

I mean the phone guy or bookie type. You agree to pay and Moose and Rocko will be over shortly.

Axxon · 02-07-2005, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

An oral contract over the phone involving an illegal activity? So if I buy drugs from a guy over the phone and he sends it to me first, and I don't pay, you're telling me, he could take me to court?

See my last post. The contract could be written in such a way that it isn't an illegal activity. The question over oral contracts would be tricky but I'm sure if the disclaimer was written well enough and the calls were recorded, then it might be legal. You'd be stupid to agree but that, nor exploiting that, is a crime.

Axxon · 02-07-2005, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I mean the phone guy or bookie type. You agree to pay and Moose and Rocko will be over shortly.

Granted but now I'm talking about trying to set it up legally and then convincing folks to do it legally. I think you'd still find a market though granted it would be preying on the weak.

rkmsuf · 02-07-2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxon

Granted but now I'm talking about trying to set it up legally and then convincing folks to do it legally. I think you'd still find a market though granted it would be preying on the weak.

That's where the shows on tv touting the vegas 800 lines come in. Same concept but legal.

Desnudo · 02-07-2005, 03:48 PM

Hey, how come I can't send you a PM? I have some information for you that could change your life.

gottimd · 02-07-2005, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axxon

See my last post. The contract could be written in such a way that it isn't an illegal activity. The question over oral contracts would be tricky but I'm sure if the disclaimer was written well enough and the calls were recorded, then it might be legal. You'd be stupid to agree but that, nor exploiting that, is a crime.

So lets say, in the phone conversation, he says "Now you know I am only providing this service to you for pure entertainment?", is that considered a disclaimer? And if he did say something like that, why in the hell would I be gambling for pure entertainment? Could I say, sure to his question, and say "and me paying you would be for my entertainment purposes as well". (my disclaimer to him). And if he discusses monetary payments, wouldn't that then constitute a non-entertainment service, thus gambling. And if this were the case, why would any bookie send out henchman to collect when they could easily take them to court to collect or garnish wages.

Axxon · 02-07-2005, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George W Bush

who bets money on something just because some random guy tells them to? they deserve to lose money.

I would but simply because I never bet and don't believe I'd become addicted. I'd know it was likely bs but just the attempt would prompt me to try at an extremly low price. I wouldn't bet more than I could afford or would want to lose.

After that, I'd likely double up if I won simply because I'd still only be in for the initial small amount and I'd be pretty curious. Of course, I'm weird about gambling so maybe not. I once walked away from a table in Vegas after winning 7 straight blackjack hands which people thought was weird. I REALLY don't have the gambling persona.

Axxon · 02-07-2005, 03:50 PM

Keno though, I loved that game but I was a gambling wimp when I played that.

02-07-2005, 02:57 PM	#2
Axxon Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ	Anyone heard of this scam? I first heard about it before the internet so I have no idea if it's an urban legend or not but that's really not the point. I think it's a sweet scam. Supposedly the guy got caught in the end when one of his marks turned him in. Anyway, he writes a letter that says something to the effect that the reader may not remember him but that the reader had helped him when he was down and out and he wants to reward him. He gives him a football pick and says that if the reader is a betting man he should take a shot on the game. He picks one game and sends half the letters saying pick team A and half saying pick team B. After the game, he picks the winning half and repeats the same thing. Pretty soon, he's got a small list of people who've won big with him for a while, then he sends a letter telling how he's down on his luck and needs a helping hand and since he's helped them out so far could they spare some of their winnings. Supposedly he collected a fair amount of coin but as I said, the story goes he was ratted out. I wonder if anyone else has heard of this at all? __________________ There are no houris, alas, in our heaven. Last edited by Axxon : 02-07-2005 at 02:58 PM.

02-07-2005, 02:58 PM	#3
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	Anybody who falls for that should be required by law to wear a bright yellow jumpsuit that has an arrow on their chest pointed at themselves that says "I'm with stupid". __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

02-07-2005, 02:59 PM	#4
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	That was described in my high school sociology class (back in '84 or '85) as the way to convince people you have psychic powers. The point being it doesn't take long before you've got a handful of people that will SWEAR you're omniscient because you've made 5 or 6 calls correct in a row. Works for football games, stock market predicting, etc. __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities

02-07-2005, 03:01 PM	#5
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	That's how those free pick vegas lines work. Half the callers get one pick, the other half the other pick. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

02-07-2005, 03:12 PM	#11
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Considering you the winner in the scam represent 1% of his action I think it a tad irresponsible to further his campaign. What about the poor saps who aren't as lucky to be in the "final" group. Maybe they get 3 of 4 in, believe the guy is the man and bet big on what's nothing but a 50/50 proposition. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

02-07-2005, 03:10 PM	#10
Joe Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minneapolis	i'm gonna try this scam. what are you guys' email addresses?

02-07-2005, 03:24 PM	#14
bryce High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dallas, TX	i've heard about this scam in relation to the stock market, too.

02-07-2005, 03:26 PM	#15
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	Like that movie "Boiler Room"? __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

02-07-2005, 03:30 PM	#17
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	I have a guy who calls me almost often on my cell phone, and claims to know the guaranteed winner of the game every night, and all I have to do is call him back and pay him mone for the pick. I'm sure he does a similar thing, where he calls a bunch of people and picks a random winner. Its so damn annoying. __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

02-07-2005, 03:42 PM	#24
Joe Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minneapolis	who bets money on something just because some random guy tells them to? they deserve to lose money.

02-07-2005, 03:48 PM	#29
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	Hey, how come I can't send you a PM? I have some information for you that could change your life.

02-07-2005, 03:50 PM	#32
Axxon Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ	Keno though, I loved that game but I was a gambling wimp when I played that. __________________ There are no houris, alas, in our heaven.

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