Lawyer Milloy = Idiot

MikeVick7 · 02-10-2005, 08:15 AM

I kinda lost a little interest in the NFL this year...and I want to thank the former Patriots DB for not making me feel bad about it.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/...48/1007/SPORTS

Here's the main portion of the article...

In a radio interview with a Boston radio station, Bills strong safety and ex-Patriots captain Lawyer Milloy came off as a bitter man, chiding his former teammates for drinking coach Bill Belichick's Kool-Aid and buying into his concept of team first.

"Some of those guys, I think, are underpaid," Milloy said. "It's always been a team thing getting thrown around there, but if some of those guys would test the market, being a champion that they've been, they could really go out there and make top dollar. But for some reason, they want to stay. And that's good. But the other part is (making sure) your family is stable after football is all done. You can't feed your family off of Super Bowl rings."

Wow. Talk about wide right. Talk about indigestion.

Is there any wonder why Milloy, who wouldn't agree to an acceptable contract restructuring, was cut by Belichick just days before the season opener in 2003?

Makes you wonder, too, what kind of gospel he's spreading inside the Buffalo locker room, particularly to the young defensive backs that look up to him. "Everybody is saying this is a team thing (in New England), and it's really taking away from the players and the individual accolades and all of that," said Milloy, who really got a roll. "... The more they focus on 'We don't have any stars' and all of that, the more you get overlooked as far as individual accolades and contracts."

moriarty · 02-10-2005, 08:19 AM

Not defending Milloy (I figure a lawyer can defend himself ... rim shot please) but it is possible he's just trying to stir up people on the New England team. Since Buffalo is in the same division, his team would greatly benefit from alot of the Patriots saying, 'heh, maybe it is time to get some for myself and family'.

rkmsuf · 02-10-2005, 08:23 AM

I know it's a recent article but I believe he said that stuff some time ago.

Eilim · 02-10-2005, 08:23 AM

He's pretty much been saying that sort of thing since he was first off the team.

Ragone · 02-10-2005, 08:26 AM

First thing that comes to my mind is that classic line from Patrick Ewing

"We make alot of money, but we spend alot of money too"

KevinNU7 · 02-10-2005, 08:26 AM

obviously you have to think about your family when you make a decision to take less money. But that true decision is for people make the league minimum but they know if they move they can get few million.

That is completely different then someone "thinking about their family" because they are only making $4M a year with the Patriots.

Fritz · 02-10-2005, 08:33 AM

http://www.patscap.com/2005cap.html

2005 Patriots player sals.

Just 12 players witha current over a mil, and less than half the team has a total cap figure over a mil.

rkmsuf · 02-10-2005, 08:40 AM

What's nice about that list is that their cap figures are pretty much in line with their contribution or "worth" outside of maybe Branch and I guess Bruschi is "underpaid" but he did his own contract and at the time wasn't the mythical figure he's become.

BrianD · 02-10-2005, 08:41 AM

Anybody that can't keep their family stable on even the league minimum salary gets no sympathy from me. Pay me $1 million over the course of 3 or 4 years and I'll show you a family that lives very well for the rest of their lives without ever having to work again.

Logan · 02-10-2005, 08:45 AM

I wonder how many of these players properly invest their money. When I say properly, I mean not having a "friend" take care of it who surely wouldn't be trying to screw over the player.

KevinNU7 · 02-10-2005, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

Anybody that can't keep their family stable on even the league minimum salary gets no sympathy from me. Pay me $1 million over the course of 3 or 4 years and I'll show you a family that lives very well for the rest of their lives without ever having to work again.

You are saying you could take $250k a year for 4 years and live weel off for the rest of your life? No Fing way

MikeVick7 · 02-10-2005, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

You are saying you could take $250k a year for 4 years and live weel off for the rest of your life? No Fing way

I'm wondering if he didn't mean $1 mill per year.

Fritz · 02-10-2005, 09:00 AM

I am not saying a guy can;t live on 1M per year, but how much of that do they really see?

Also, I wonder what the average annual post career cost is for former players.

Anthony · 02-10-2005, 09:25 AM

I gotta say that i somewhat agree with Milloy. let's just say you worked at a job where you made a shit load of money because you had 4 arms and were able to do things others couldn't. your ability to make that much money was dependent on you having use of the 4 arms. now what happens if you injure those extra 2 arms and you lose use of them for life. wouldn't you want to have made as much money as you could while you were a 4 armed worker? why would you have left money on the table just to be a good employee? same thing with athletes. they only have a small window to make this shitload of money - why sacrifice the well being of their family and future generations just so some team can use them while they have the ability and throw them away once that ability is gone?

i mean, seriously - their salaries aren't even guaranteed. all this negative talk is just jealousy. don't pretend that you wouldn't want to make market value if you were in their shoes.

panerd · 02-10-2005, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

You are saying you could take $250k a year for 4 years and live weel off for the rest of your life? No Fing way

Then we must live in different worlds. I make about $40,000 a year and it will take me 25 years of work to reach your "impossible" scenerio. So yes, I believe he could live off $250,000 over 4 years for quite a while.

BrianD · 02-10-2005, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

You are saying you could take $250k a year for 4 years and live weel off for the rest of your life? No Fing way

The average American family makes about $60k/year. Live that way for the 4 years, and you've got $760k saved. At a modest 8% investment interest, that's almost $61k/year. Figure in inflation, and the family would not survive very long.

Take 4 years of league minimum salary:
# Year 0: $225,000
# Year 1: $300,000
# Year 2: $375,000
# Year 3: $450,000
Total is 1.3 mil. After 4 years of living off of the average salary, there would be $1 mil in savings. At 8% investerest, that is $80k/year. That family should be able to live comfortably, between the average 60 and total 80, and still have the increased savings keep up with inflation.

Comfortable isn't the same as living well, so I guess I did exaggerate some, but only a little.

Eilim · 02-10-2005, 09:32 AM

If they want more money, they just have to ask for it. Either they'll get what their asking for or move onto another team. Whats the problem here? Oh yeah, a guy who was being paid more than he was worth at the time was booted and is now bitching about the organization that did it. Would we be hearing this if Buffalo went on to greatness and the Patriots floundered? I doubt it. I have to agree with the original thread topic, this is just sour grapes.

gstelmack · 02-10-2005, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fritz

I am not saying a guy can;t live on 1M per year, but how much of that do they really see?

Also, I wonder what the average annual post career cost is for former players.

For a guy only playing 4 years (barring catastrophic injury to end the career), it's probably pretty small. For guys playing more than 4 years, well they've got more years that are paid above league min for a rookie.

BrianD · 02-10-2005, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

I gotta say that i somewhat agree with Milloy. let's just say you worked at a job where you made a shit load of money because you had 4 arms and were able to do things others couldn't. your ability to make that much money was dependent on you having use of the 4 arms. now what happens if you injure those extra 2 arms and you lose use of them for life. wouldn't you want to have made as much money as you could while you were a 4 armed worker? why would you have left money on the table just to be a good employee? same thing with athletes. they only have a small window to make this shitload of money - why sacrifice the well being of their family and future generations just so some team can use them while they have the ability and throw them away once that ability is gone?

i mean, seriously - their salaries aren't even guaranteed. all this negative talk is just jealousy. don't pretend that you wouldn't want to make market value if you were in their shoes.

I disagree. Money has to be weighed against happiness. Every day in every sector of the workforce, people turn down higher paying jobs to stay where they are happy. Some athletes do the same thing. They take less money to go to a contender rather than bigger money to go to a crap team. It doesn't always happen this way, and you do have to respect the choice to make every penny they can, but happiness is a factor.

Football players know that they can't play football the rest of their lives. They also know that their career could be very short. The ones that aren't dumb understand that they need to invest some of that income for the day when playing football is no longer an option.

Fritz · 02-10-2005, 09:42 AM

and most young people, when handed a wad of cash, store it away for the future

Anthony · 02-10-2005, 09:44 AM

it's not about happiness. why should one athlete on a shitty team make more money than someone on the Patriots who gets Super Bowl rings but is underpaid? the wins themselves don't put food on the table. i don't think any football athlete puts wins over money. sure, if they're good enough they can get their money PLUS weasel their way onto a contender (ie., T.O.), but by and large money buys their mansions and fleet of cars, not trading a 7-9 team for an 11-5 playoff team. don't confuse good PR - the "all i want is to win" rhetoric - with what they're really after.

rkmsuf · 02-10-2005, 09:45 AM

It's a stupid ass comment to make when

a. you are talking about the difference between 5 million a year and say 2 million a year. I'd say most folks would have a hard time relating to that.

b. based on that is it that hard to keep your f*cking mouth shut. Is he really thinking we are gonna somehow feel sorry for him or something.

c. Milloy has already made what 5-10 million dollars at least during his football career.

d. take the money but don't go on about how you were screwed or something. It's fine to go for the money.

I'm sorry but this has asshat written all over it.

rkmsuf · 02-10-2005, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

it's not about happiness. why should one athlete on a shitty team make more money than someone on the Patriots who gets Super Bowl rings but is underpaid? the wins themselves don't put food on the table. i don't think any football athlete puts wins over money. sure, if they're good enough they can get their money PLUS weasel their way onto a contender (ie., T.O.), but by and large money buys their mansions and fleet of cars, not trading a 7-9 team for an 11-5 playoff team. don't confuse good PR - the "all i want is to win" rhetoric - with what they're really after.

That's certainly not an absolute. Take a look at some of these Patriot guys. I wouldn't put many of them in that category.

Is it rare to have a collection of these guys, absolutely.

FrogMan · 02-10-2005, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

the wins themselves don't put food on the table.

That's the stupidest comment I keep hearing over and over, like Milloy saying that superbowl rings don't feed a family. Do you think they will put that much more food on the table with 2 millions than they would with 1 million??? Or even with 4 millions or 8 millions compared to 1 million??? Come on, I'd say 1 million is still plenty to put food on the table... Pats are not underspending their cap, they spread it around. Instead of having 5 players at 5 millions each and a bunch of 300k, you got a whole bunch just under a million... (I have not analyzed the figures, simply think that's how it is now)...

FM

rkmsuf · 02-10-2005, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogMan

That's the stupidest comment I keep hearing over and over, like Milloy saying that superbowl rings don't feed a family. Do you think they will put that much more food on the table with 2 millions than they would with 1 million??? Or even with 4 millions or 8 millions compared to 1 million??? Come on, I'd say 1 million is still plenty to put food on the table... Pats are not underspending their cap, they spread it around. Instead of having 5 players at 5 millions each and a bunch of 300k, you got a whole bunch just under a million... (I have not analyzed the figures, simply think that's how it is now)...

FM

I think the better point is nobody is forcing guys at gunpoint to sign. Either sign of don't but don't be a little p*ssy like Milloy and whine about it. Pats can operate the cap anyway they want. If guys don't choose to sign here so be it.

Crapshoot · 02-10-2005, 10:00 AM

If you're used to a standard of living, its fairly hard to drop back down. ANd they are underpaid by market value - whether you like it or not. Buying into the take less scheme means that someone gets that extra profit- in this case, Kraft and co. I realize that bashing players for making market value is fun, but the "I could survive on it" arguement holds no water- you aren't making that kind of money because no market values the skills as such.

rkmsuf · 02-10-2005, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

If you're used to a standard of living, its fairly hard to drop back down. ANd they are underpaid by market value - whether you like it or not. Buying into the take less scheme means that someone gets that extra profit- in this case, Kraft and co. I realize that bashing players for making market value is fun, but the "I could survive on it" arguement holds no water- you aren't making that kind of money because no market values the skills as such.

What extra profit?

You are way off base here.

I mean you're kidding right? The Krafts build a privately funded stadium and they are manipulating the cap on the cheap to pocket extra change every year.

Not only is this factually wrong, it makes no sense conceptually.

Anthony · 02-10-2005, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I think the better point is nobody is forcing guys at gunpoint to sign. Either sign of don't but don't be a little p*ssy like Milloy and whine about it. Pats can operate the cap anyway they want. If guys don't choose to sign here so be it.

i'll agree with that point. not frogman's retarded "why would anyone want to make $2million when $1million is enough?!?" comment. it's easy to say when you'll never make that much money, but when you gotta pay taxes on your mansion, support your family and all your new "family members", your cars and maintaining that level of lifestyle - yeah, winning a Super Bowl will pay the bills several years down the road.

you and i would know how to spend modestly and save because we're forced to care about finances. you're talking about athletes from the slums of the earth who spent every damn paycheck on another piece of bling or rims for their pimped-out ride while living in a tenement. striking it rich as an athlete just means you can afford to spend more and have more, not necessarily save more.

Crapshoot · 02-10-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

What extra profit?

You are way off base here.

Profit from being able to keep a better team (due to the cap) than if everyone was paid market value- leading to better results - leading to better moolah.

Essentialy, my point is that if someone is underpaid, someone else is overpaid or overcompensated as a result of it in business akin to the NFL. It may not be the Krafts per se, but the result of someone taking less than market value is someone else is benefiting from that action.

FrogMan · 02-10-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i'll agree with that point. not frogman's retarded "why would anyone want to make $2million when $1million is enough?!?" comment. it's easy to say when you'll never make that much money, but when you gotta pay taxes on your mansion, support your family and all your new "family members", your cars and maintaining that level of lifestyle - yeah, winning a Super Bowl will pay the bills several years down the road.

you and i would know how to spend modestly and save because we're forced to care about finances. you're talking about athletes from the slums of the earth who spent every damn paycheck on another piece of bling or rims for their pimped-out ride while living in a tenement. striking it rich as an athlete just means you can afford to spend more and have more, not necessarily save more.

call the argument retarded if you want, but I think that if a guy isn't able to save/invest/"keep for his old days" some money when earning 1 million a year, he won't be able to save more when earning 4 or even 8 millions a year. It's not earning more now that he needs, it's money for when he'll stop playing, and that, I'm of the opinion that he won't have anymore money with 4M than he would if he had earned only 1M. "slums of the earth" defines many of them, maybe not all of them...

FM

rkmsuf · 02-10-2005, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Profit from being able to keep a better team (due to the cap) than if everyone was paid market value- leading to better results - leading to better moolah.

Essentialy, my point is that if someone is underpaid, someone else is overpaid or overcompensated as a result of it in business akin to the NFL.

Ahh, I see your point now.

Anthony · 02-10-2005, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

What extra profit?

You are way off base here.

I mean you're kidding right? The Krafts build a privately funded stadium and they are manipulating the cap on the cheap to pocket extra change every year.

Not only is this factually wrong, it makes no sense conceptually.

the extra profit of not having every penny of your cap tied up in star players. you think the money that is saved in unused cap just floats in the air waiting to be spent? no - it goes back to the source (ie., the team. who owns the team - the owner, Kraft).

rkmsuf · 02-10-2005, 10:11 AM

I'm still mystified at Milloy's whole point to this. He DID get his money. It's not like the Pats cut him and he had to sign for peanuts.

He got 5 million per which is what he wanted.

I'm thinking he is just uber jealous and that's it.

BrianD · 02-10-2005, 10:13 AM

When the discussion comes down to x million or y million, we are no longer talking about feeding your family. At this point we are talking about greed. Players are allowed to be greedy and get as much money as they can, but don't mistake this for trying to feed their family.

FrogMan · 02-10-2005, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

If you're used to a standard of living, its fairly hard to drop back down. ANd they are underpaid by market value - whether you like it or not. Buying into the take less scheme means that someone gets that extra profit- in this case, Kraft and co. I realize that bashing players for making market value is fun, but the "I could survive on it" arguement holds no water- you aren't making that kind of money because no market values the skills as such.

I've not looked at the salary cap number all that deeply, but the Pats are at the cap, or very close to it every year. They are spending just about what they have to spend, they just spread around and are able to field a better team because of players taking less, but Kraft isn't really putting money into his pocket by not paying the players. He's putting money in his pocket because the team is winning, that I agree, but imo, not because players are taking less. At least I don't think so...

FM

rkmsuf · 02-10-2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

the extra profit of not having every penny of your cap tied up in star players. you think the money that is saved in unused cap just floats in the air waiting to be spent? no - it goes back to the source (ie., the team. who owns the team - the owner, Kraft).

I'd suggest you check out the annual levels of unused cap space and tell me if Kraft is up there giggling his ass of about it. What he clears 500 maybe a million a year. They've even been over the cap.

Come on now. Even you must understand Kraft a bit better than that if you think he's gaming this.

FrogMan · 02-10-2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I'd suggest you check out the annual levels of unused cap space and tell me if Kraft is up there giggling his ass of about it. What he clears 500 maybe a million a year. They've even been over the cap.

Come on now. Even you must understand Kraft a bit better than that if you think he's gaming this.

we typed at the same time, exactly what I mean...

FM

BrianD · 02-10-2005, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

you and i would know how to spend modestly and save because we're forced to care about finances. you're talking about athletes from the slums of the earth who spent every damn paycheck on another piece of bling or rims for their pimped-out ride while living in a tenement. striking it rich as an athlete just means you can afford to spend more and have more, not necessarily save more.

Do you think that these guys figure out their own taxes too? They have to hire accountants to do their taxes for them, and these accountants are going to be talking to them about savings and retirement. This doesn't mean that the players will be saving more, but they will be getting the proper advice.

Barkeep49 · 02-10-2005, 10:33 AM

Winning the Super Bowl has some intrinsic value. I would venture all football players would be willing to forgoe X dollars to win the Super Bowl. Perhaps someone like Milloy would only give 20 bucks but I'd still wager that there is an amount he'd be willing to pay. So are the Patriot players really suckers if they're willing to forgoe a larger amount than Milloy in order to have that competitive chance? To me they are simply have different values which hardly makes them chumps.

MikeVick7 · 02-10-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Winning the Super Bowl has some intrinsic value. I would venture all football players would be willing to forgoe X dollars to win the Super Bowl. Perhaps someone like Milloy would only give 20 bucks but I'd still wager that there is an amount he'd be willing to pay. So are the Patriot players really suckers if they're willing to forgoe a larger amount than Milloy in order to have that competitive chance? To me they are simply have different values which hardly makes them chumps.

I'm just simply amazed that no one cares about winning anymore. If it's all about the dollars that why are we keeping track of wins? Why don't we just see what sports franchise can put together the largest payroll?

Ksyrup · 02-10-2005, 11:07 AM

The problem these guys have, I'm sure, is the same one most of us have, which is living up to (or beyond) your means. On a much smaller scale, both my secretary and I have credit card debt, car loans, mortgages, etc., despite the big difference in our salaries. It's all relative. People making $30K a year wish for the time when they could be making $75K - thinking they'd be debt-free - while people making $100K a year wish they were making $250K.

The problem in the sports world is that your career is short-lived, for the most part. So, while I may not make near the NFL minimum as an attorney, my career is probably going to last 10 times most guys' NFL careers. So they have to deal with not only making a lot of money so quickly, but also with the temptations that we all have about living up to our means. I imagine it would be difficult not to want to live a $2M/year lifestyle. But given the career expectancies of athletes, most of them really can't afford to do that.

Of course, with the insane number of ex-athletes getting TV and radio jobs, I guess they're pretty much all getting an extended career beyond the field anyway...

rkmsuf · 02-10-2005, 11:24 AM

One last question of this relating to the Pats. Who exactly is getting people in a rage that they are getting screwed or something?

Brady?
6th round pick on the books for 10 million next year. Will reup for big dollars.

Law
He was signed to the biggest CB deal in NFL history by the Pats. He's coming up on contract #2 here. I can understand being careful on paying a guy 12 mil per who is sure to slow down.

Dillon?
6 million for a guy when signed had a shady rep

Troy Brown?
5.7 for a guy in his 12 year. They essentially gave him a lifetime achievement contract.

Vrabel?
4 million for a guy signing here as a backup.

Harrison?
2.2 million. Lowish but the Chargers didn't want the guy and he had a major image problem at the time. He got a long deal though till 2008. Nobody else bid for the guy.

Bruschi?
He did his own deal.

I just don't see a guy I can pick out and say he's getting it stuck to him on the cheap.

KevinNU7 · 02-10-2005, 11:49 AM

Bruschi flat out said on Patritos All Access (TV Show here in Boston airing Sunday mornings) a few months ago that he was his own agent because it meant he could accept a deal that was worth 20% less then he "deserved" but he would get the same paycheck because he didn't have to pay 20% in agent fees.

If more guys did this they would play on w9inners and get the money they want.

BrianD · 02-10-2005, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

The problem in the sports world is that your career is short-lived, for the most part. So, while I may not make near the NFL minimum as an attorney, my career is probably going to last 10 times most guys' NFL careers. So they have to deal with not only making a lot of money so quickly, but also with the temptations that we all have about living up to our means. I imagine it would be difficult not to want to live a $2M/year lifestyle. But given the career expectancies of athletes, most of them really can't afford to do that.

Clearly there are challenges for the athletes, and we do hear fairly often about ex-players declaring bankruptcy. My point is that have no good reason to make the claim that they need a higher salary so they can take care of their family, or to put food on their table. Anyone how makes multiple millions of dollars per year, or collects multiple millions of dollars over their career has everything they need to provide for their family. If these guys can't support their family, they have to realize that they are the ones that screwed up.

I have no problem with a player who says he needs more money because he spent all of his. I do have a problem with players who say their salary isn't sufficient to take care of their family.

Franklinnoble · 02-10-2005, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

Bruschi flat out said on Patritos All Access (TV Show here in Boston airing Sunday mornings) a few months ago that he was his own agent because it meant he could accept a deal that was worth 20% less then he "deserved" but he would get the same paycheck because he didn't have to pay 20% in agent fees.

If more guys did this they would play on w9inners and get the money they want.

I don't know why this doesn't happen more often. You can hire an attorney to review your contract at $500 an hour, and still get off much, much cheaper than if you have an agent.

The only thing an agent can do for you is bring endorsements and such - but most players aren't going to see themselves on a cereal box anyway.

stevew · 02-10-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianD

The average American family makes about $60k/year. Live that way for the 4 years, and you've got $760k saved. At a modest 8% investment interest, that's almost $61k/year. Figure in inflation, and the family would not survive very long.

Take 4 years of league minimum salary:
# Year 0: $225,000
# Year 1: $300,000
# Year 2: $375,000
# Year 3: $450,000
Total is 1.3 mil. After 4 years of living off of the average salary, there would be $1 mil in savings. At 8% investerest, that is $80k/year. That family should be able to live comfortably, between the average 60 and total 80, and still have the increased savings keep up with inflation.

Comfortable isn't the same as living well, so I guess I did exaggerate some, but only a little.

Yeah, but its likely that the fellow would pay 600K roughly on taxes and agent fees on that 1.3 million, leaving 700K, which subtracting the 60K per year from would only leave less than 500K. At 8% interest he'd be looking at roughly 35K a year.

MacroGuru · 02-10-2005, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

You are saying you could take $250k a year for 4 years and live weel off for the rest of your life? No Fing way

Give it to me....I can make it work more than likely....

thrym · 02-10-2005, 12:54 PM

Hey...don't have a DAMN thing to add to this but just felt like I needed to say:

This was an enjoyable read...thanks to all and I'm looking forward to the 'more to come' posts!

T

Desnudo · 02-10-2005, 12:57 PM

Lawyer Milloy wants to make a lot of money, good for him. The Patriots' players want to make a lot of money and win Super Bowls, better for them.

sterlingice · 02-10-2005, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVick7

I'm just simply amazed that no one cares about winning anymore. If it's all about the dollars that why are we keeping track of wins? Why don't we just see what sports franchise can put together the largest payroll?

We already do have that. They play baseball in New York, although there's a team in Boston trying to knock them off their perch but they don't quite seem to have enough cash.

SI

02-10-2005, 08:23 AM	#3
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	I know it's a recent article but I believe he said that stuff some time ago. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

02-10-2005, 08:26 AM	#6
KevinNU7 College Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Beantown	obviously you have to think about your family when you make a decision to take less money. But that true decision is for people make the league minimum but they know if they move they can get few million. That is completely different then someone "thinking about their family" because they are only making $4M a year with the Patriots. __________________ Boston Bashers - III.14 - (8347) Last edited by KevinNU7 : 02-10-2005 at 08:26 AM.

02-10-2005, 08:33 AM	#7
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	http://www.patscap.com/2005cap.html 2005 Patriots player sals. Just 12 players witha current over a mil, and less than half the team has a total cap figure over a mil. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

02-10-2005, 08:40 AM	#8
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	What's nice about that list is that their cap figures are pretty much in line with their contribution or "worth" outside of maybe Branch and I guess Bruschi is "underpaid" but he did his own contract and at the time wasn't the mythical figure he's become. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

02-10-2005, 09:00 AM	#13
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	I am not saying a guy can;t live on 1M per year, but how much of that do they really see? Also, I wonder what the average annual post career cost is for former players. __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

02-10-2005, 08:19 AM	#2
moriarty College Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: A negative place	Not defending Milloy (I figure a lawyer can defend himself ... rim shot please) but it is possible he's just trying to stir up people on the New England team. Since Buffalo is in the same division, his team would greatly benefit from alot of the Patriots saying, 'heh, maybe it is time to get some for myself and family'.

02-10-2005, 08:23 AM	#4
Eilim High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Foxboro,MA	He's pretty much been saying that sort of thing since he was first off the team.

02-10-2005, 08:26 AM	#5
Ragone Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kansas City, Mo	First thing that comes to my mind is that classic line from Patrick Ewing "We make alot of money, but we spend alot of money too"

02-10-2005, 08:41 AM	#9
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Anybody that can't keep their family stable on even the league minimum salary gets no sympathy from me. Pay me $1 million over the course of 3 or 4 years and I'll show you a family that lives very well for the rest of their lives without ever having to work again.

02-10-2005, 08:45 AM	#10
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	I wonder how many of these players properly invest their money. When I say properly, I mean not having a "friend" take care of it who surely wouldn't be trying to screw over the player.

02-10-2005, 09:25 AM	#14
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	I gotta say that i somewhat agree with Milloy. let's just say you worked at a job where you made a shit load of money because you had 4 arms and were able to do things others couldn't. your ability to make that much money was dependent on you having use of the 4 arms. now what happens if you injure those extra 2 arms and you lose use of them for life. wouldn't you want to have made as much money as you could while you were a 4 armed worker? why would you have left money on the table just to be a good employee? same thing with athletes. they only have a small window to make this shitload of money - why sacrifice the well being of their family and future generations just so some team can use them while they have the ability and throw them away once that ability is gone? i mean, seriously - their salaries aren't even guaranteed. all this negative talk is just jealousy. don't pretend that you wouldn't want to make market value if you were in their shoes.

02-10-2005, 09:32 AM	#17
Eilim High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Foxboro,MA	If they want more money, they just have to ask for it. Either they'll get what their asking for or move onto another team. Whats the problem here? Oh yeah, a guy who was being paid more than he was worth at the time was booted and is now bitching about the organization that did it. Would we be hearing this if Buffalo went on to greatness and the Patriots floundered? I doubt it. I have to agree with the original thread topic, this is just sour grapes.

02-10-2005, 09:42 AM	#20
Fritz Lethargic Hooligan Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: hello kitty found my wallet at a big tent revival and returned it with all the cash missing	and most young people, when handed a wad of cash, store it away for the future __________________ donkey, donkey, walk a little faster

02-10-2005, 09:44 AM	#21
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	it's not about happiness. why should one athlete on a shitty team make more money than someone on the Patriots who gets Super Bowl rings but is underpaid? the wins themselves don't put food on the table. i don't think any football athlete puts wins over money. sure, if they're good enough they can get their money PLUS weasel their way onto a contender (ie., T.O.), but by and large money buys their mansions and fleet of cars, not trading a 7-9 team for an 11-5 playoff team. don't confuse good PR - the "all i want is to win" rhetoric - with what they're really after.

02-10-2005, 09:45 AM	#22
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	It's a stupid ass comment to make when a. you are talking about the difference between 5 million a year and say 2 million a year. I'd say most folks would have a hard time relating to that. b. based on that is it that hard to keep your fcking mouth shut. Is he really thinking we are gonna somehow feel sorry for him or something. c. Milloy has already made what 5-10 million dollars at least during his football career. d. take the money but don't go on about how you were screwed or something. It's fine to go for the money. I'm sorry but this has asshat written all over it. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales Last edited by rkmsuf : 02-10-2005 at 09:45 AM.*

02-10-2005, 10:00 AM	#26
Crapshoot Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2003	If you're used to a standard of living, its fairly hard to drop back down. ANd they are underpaid by market value - whether you like it or not. Buying into the take less scheme means that someone gets that extra profit- in this case, Kraft and co. I realize that bashing players for making market value is fun, but the "I could survive on it" arguement holds no water- you aren't making that kind of money because no market values the skills as such.

02-10-2005, 10:11 AM	#33
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	I'm still mystified at Milloy's whole point to this. He DID get his money. It's not like the Pats cut him and he had to sign for peanuts. He got 5 million per which is what he wanted. I'm thinking he is just uber jealous and that's it. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

02-10-2005, 10:13 AM	#34
BrianD Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	When the discussion comes down to x million or y million, we are no longer talking about feeding your family. At this point we are talking about greed. Players are allowed to be greedy and get as much money as they can, but don't mistake this for trying to feed their family.

02-10-2005, 10:33 AM	#39
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Winning the Super Bowl has some intrinsic value. I would venture all football players would be willing to forgoe X dollars to win the Super Bowl. Perhaps someone like Milloy would only give 20 bucks but I'd still wager that there is an amount he'd be willing to pay. So are the Patriot players really suckers if they're willing to forgoe a larger amount than Milloy in order to have that competitive chance? To me they are simply have different values which hardly makes them chumps.

02-10-2005, 11:07 AM	#41
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	The problem these guys have, I'm sure, is the same one most of us have, which is living up to (or beyond) your means. On a much smaller scale, both my secretary and I have credit card debt, car loans, mortgages, etc., despite the big difference in our salaries. It's all relative. People making $30K a year wish for the time when they could be making $75K - thinking they'd be debt-free - while people making $100K a year wish they were making $250K. The problem in the sports world is that your career is short-lived, for the most part. So, while I may not make near the NFL minimum as an attorney, my career is probably going to last 10 times most guys' NFL careers. So they have to deal with not only making a lot of money so quickly, but also with the temptations that we all have about living up to our means. I imagine it would be difficult not to want to live a $2M/year lifestyle. But given the career expectancies of athletes, most of them really can't afford to do that. Of course, with the insane number of ex-athletes getting TV and radio jobs, I guess they're pretty much all getting an extended career beyond the field anyway... __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

02-10-2005, 11:24 AM	#42
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	One last question of this relating to the Pats. Who exactly is getting people in a rage that they are getting screwed or something? Brady? 6th round pick on the books for 10 million next year. Will reup for big dollars. Law He was signed to the biggest CB deal in NFL history by the Pats. He's coming up on contract #2 here. I can understand being careful on paying a guy 12 mil per who is sure to slow down. Dillon? 6 million for a guy when signed had a shady rep Troy Brown? 5.7 for a guy in his 12 year. They essentially gave him a lifetime achievement contract. Vrabel? 4 million for a guy signing here as a backup. Harrison? 2.2 million. Lowish but the Chargers didn't want the guy and he had a major image problem at the time. He got a long deal though till 2008. Nobody else bid for the guy. Bruschi? He did his own deal. I just don't see a guy I can pick out and say he's getting it stuck to him on the cheap. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

02-10-2005, 11:49 AM	#43
KevinNU7 College Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Beantown	Bruschi flat out said on Patritos All Access (TV Show here in Boston airing Sunday mornings) a few months ago that he was his own agent because it meant he could accept a deal that was worth 20% less then he "deserved" but he would get the same paycheck because he didn't have to pay 20% in agent fees. If more guys did this they would play on w9inners and get the money they want. __________________ Boston Bashers - III.14 - (8347)

02-10-2005, 12:54 PM	#48
thrym Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Central Arkansas	Hey...don't have a DAMN thing to add to this but just felt like I needed to say: This was an enjoyable read...thanks to all and I'm looking forward to the 'more to come' posts! T

02-10-2005, 12:57 PM	#49
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	Lawyer Milloy wants to make a lot of money, good for him. The Patriots' players want to make a lot of money and win Super Bowls, better for them. Last edited by Desnudo : 02-10-2005 at 12:58 PM.

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