Wynn's new chips - with chips

QuikSand · 02-11-2005, 08:55 AM

http://news.com.com/Vegas+casino+bet...?tag=sas.email

Vegas casino bets on RFID
Published: February 9, 2005, 4:00 AM PST
By Alorie Gilbert
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

Casino mogul Steve Wynn has pulled out all the stops for his new $2.7 billion mega-resort in Las Vegas: an 18-hole championship golf course, a private lake and mountain, and a bronze tower housing 2,700 plush guest rooms.

But when its doors open in April, the Wynn Las Vegas will have one unique feature that few visitors are likely to notice--high-tech betting chips designed to deter counterfeiting, card-counting and other bad behavior.

The fancy new chips look just like regular ones, only they contain radio devices that signal secret serial numbers. Special equipment linked to the casino's computer systems and placed throughout the property will identify legitimate chips and detect fakes, said Rick Doptis, vice president of table games for the Wynn.

(see link above for multi-page article)

KWhit · 02-11-2005, 08:59 AM

How in the world can this deter card counting???

cartman · 02-11-2005, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

How in the world can this deter card counting???

They could detect betting patterns consistent with card counting.

KWhit · 02-11-2005, 09:02 AM

Read the entire article and found my answer. Sorta.

Keeping a closer eye on table wagers could also help casinos crack down on card counting. Armed with all kinds of data, RFID systems could analyze game activity against statistical models and alert management of a suspicious winning streak. The technology can also be used to catch dealer mistakes, check dealer productivity and deter chip theft.

mhass · 02-11-2005, 09:08 AM

This rings of an attempt to scare counters out of the casino before it's built - building the anti-counter rep preemptively.

RendeR · 02-11-2005, 09:16 AM

Ok, I have to ask, WTF is wrong with counting the cards? I would think thats part of the game, yer playing the odds of what is left in the draw??

If they want to stop card counters, stop using a standard number of decks. Calling someone a cheater and penalizing them for using their brain and studying the game smells of fraud on the casinos' parts to me.

KWhit · 02-11-2005, 11:22 AM

Agreed. But card counting is legal, but it's also legal for a casino to throw out and ban anyone for any reason, including card counting.

Logan · 02-11-2005, 11:30 AM

Saw the hotel being built when I was in Vegas in November. Maybe I missed something...but I didn't see any room for a golf course. I thought maybe it meant that there was a course nearby that would be used exclusively by guests but the website claims the rooms have a "great view of the signature 18th hole."

Desnudo · 02-11-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Ok, I have to ask, WTF is wrong with counting the cards? I would think thats part of the game, yer playing the odds of what is left in the draw??

If they want to stop card counters, stop using a standard number of decks. Calling someone a cheater and penalizing them for using their brain and studying the game smells of fraud on the casinos' parts to me.

What's wrong (for the casino) is that it shifts the advantage from the house to the player.

TLK · 02-11-2005, 01:57 PM

off the topic.... but where did they put an 18-hole championship golf course. Not on the hotel property right?

rkmsuf · 02-11-2005, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLionKing

off the topic.... but where did they put an 18-hole championship golf course. Not on the hotel property right?

It's underwater.

Buccaneer · 02-11-2005, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

Saw the hotel being built when I was in Vegas in November. Maybe I missed something...but I didn't see any room for a golf course. I thought maybe it meant that there was a course nearby that would be used exclusively by guests but the website claims the rooms have a "great view of the signature 18th hole."

Didn't either and we stayed right across the street at TI. They were building something that required deeply-anchored beam between Wynn and Venetian but couldn't tell which property it belonged to.

Pumpy Tudors · 02-11-2005, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RendeR

Ok, I have to ask, WTF is wrong with counting the cards? I would think thats part of the game, yer playing the odds of what is left in the draw??

If they want to stop card counters, stop using a standard number of decks. Calling someone a cheater and penalizing them for using their brain and studying the game smells of fraud on the casinos' parts to me.

A casino will never ever ever call a card counter a "cheater." They will openly admit that you are simply beating their game, and they want you to play something else. They're not hiding anything at all, so there's no fraud. They're the ones running the game, and if they don't want you playing it, there's no reason that they can't ask you to stop. The only reason they don't ask people to stop playing their other games is because the house has a fixed edge on all of them (with the exception of a few slot machines). As long as they come out on top, they don't really care what you play or how you play. Now, when they're not coming out on top, things change.

EagleFan · 02-11-2005, 07:48 PM

It's only cheating if you're using a device to count the cards, or using a team to do it.

The casino dislikes card counters because they lose money to them. It's simple as that. What they usually do is attempt to distract them, raise the stakes, deal more frequently and sometimes close a table. They will ask a player to play a different game but they usually try to exhaust the other measures first.

I got busted counting in a single deck game in Vegas a couple months back (single deck tables are a counters paradise). I wasn't confronted but they started witht he distractions (asking if I wanted a player card-quite often, dealer talking to me on a more frequent rate). Eventually they started shuffling after every hand. That's when I took the hint and gave them what they wanted by getting up. I wasn't that far ahead yet but I guess they wanted to nip it in the bud just in case it became something major.

Joe · 02-11-2005, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

It's only cheating if you're using a device to count the cards, or using a team to do it.

The casino dislikes card counters because they lose money to them. It's simple as that. What they usually do is attempt to distract them, raise the stakes, deal more frequently and sometimes close a table. They will ask a player to play a different game but they usually try to exhaust the other measures first.

I got busted counting in a single deck game in Vegas a couple months back (single deck tables are a counters paradise). I wasn't confronted but they started witht he distractions (asking if I wanted a player card-quite often, dealer talking to me on a more frequent rate). Eventually they started shuffling after every hand. That's when I took the hint and gave them what they wanted by getting up. I wasn't that far ahead yet but I guess they wanted to nip it in the bud just in case it became something major.

Cheater.

panerd · 02-11-2005, 08:15 PM

So what if I take a hooker up to my room with one of these chips in my pocket? Will they radio the Las Vegas PD?

EagleFan · 02-12-2005, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd

So what if I take a hooker up to my room with one of these chips in my pocket? Will they radio the Las Vegas PD?

Nope, but the marketing team will know how many chips you paid her with.

Chubby · 02-12-2005, 09:23 AM

shit, if I want to count cards I'll go back to Four Queens and play $5 single deck again and make some money. sheesh.

gottimd · 02-12-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

It's underwater.

Craptacular · 02-16-2005, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLionKing

off the topic.... but where did they put an 18-hole championship golf course. Not on the hotel property right?

I believe they just destroyed the Desert Inn golf course and built a new one in its place, designed by Tom Fazio (who also designed Shadow Creek for Wynn).

JonInMiddleGA · 02-16-2005, 10:11 PM

The $2.5 billion Wynn casino-resort will feature 2,800 rooms and a championship golf course right on the resort property, a first for Las Vegas.
http://nyjobsource.com/wynnlasvegas.html

If you scroll to the bottom of this link
http://www.vegas4visitors.com/accom/frames/wynnfrm.htm
there's quite a few photos of the long process of building the new hotel

I'm guessing (since I'm not a golfer & never paid any real attention to the layout of the Desert Inn course), that the new Fazio course is situated along the "back" of the property, if you consider the side facing The Strip as the "front".

ShaqFu · 02-16-2005, 10:30 PM

The RFID will also make it easier for the casino host to track table play. IIRC, they already have devices that simply track the monetary value, but this takes it one step further.

This will eliminate a common practice by blackjack players looking for comps. When the boss isn't looking, you bet low. When he's looking you bet a little higher. You mix it up in between. Your average is higher than it really is, only because the boss has to manually do the work. This pretty much will tie into the computers already at the tables. No more fooling the boss.

Craptacular · 02-19-2005, 03:20 PM

The course looks pretty close to the hotel. I thought I remember seeing a preview map of the resort (when it was still called La Reve) sometime ago, and that the pro shop was actually in the hotel, with the first tee right nearby. They're obviously not lying about rooms with a view of the 18th hole.

Galaxy · 05-10-2005, 01:44 AM

Kinda an old thread, but I was wondering if anyone visited the new resort? Is the hype worth it?

02-11-2005, 09:08 AM	#5
mhass High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Here	This rings of an attempt to scare counters out of the casino before it's built - building the anti-counter rep preemptively. __________________ Now while I wasn't able to cut everyone I wanted to, I have cut a lot of you. - H.J.S. Last edited by mhass : 02-11-2005 at 09:09 AM.

02-11-2005, 09:16 AM	#6
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Ok, I have to ask, WTF is wrong with counting the cards? I would think thats part of the game, yer playing the odds of what is left in the draw?? If they want to stop card counters, stop using a standard number of decks. Calling someone a cheater and penalizing them for using their brain and studying the game smells of fraud on the casinos' parts to me. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

02-16-2005, 10:11 PM	#21
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	The $2.5 billion Wynn casino-resort will feature 2,800 rooms and a championship golf course right on the resort property, a first for Las Vegas. http://nyjobsource.com/wynnlasvegas.html If you scroll to the bottom of this link http://www.vegas4visitors.com/accom/frames/wynnfrm.htm there's quite a few photos of the long process of building the new hotel I'm guessing (since I'm not a golfer & never paid any real attention to the layout of the Desert Inn course), that the new Fazio course is situated along the "back" of the property, if you consider the side facing The Strip as the "front". __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 02-16-2005 at 10:11 PM.

02-11-2005, 08:59 AM	#2
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	How in the world can this deter card counting???

02-11-2005, 09:02 AM	#4
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Read the entire article and found my answer. Sorta. Keeping a closer eye on table wagers could also help casinos crack down on card counting. Armed with all kinds of data, RFID systems could analyze game activity against statistical models and alert management of a suspicious winning streak. The technology can also be used to catch dealer mistakes, check dealer productivity and deter chip theft.

02-11-2005, 11:22 AM	#7
KWhit Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA	Agreed. But card counting is legal, but it's also legal for a casino to throw out and ban anyone for any reason, including card counting.

02-11-2005, 11:30 AM	#8
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	Saw the hotel being built when I was in Vegas in November. Maybe I missed something...but I didn't see any room for a golf course. I thought maybe it meant that there was a course nearby that would be used exclusively by guests but the website claims the rooms have a "great view of the signature 18th hole."

02-11-2005, 01:57 PM	#10
TLK Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Allen Park, MI	off the topic.... but where did they put an 18-hole championship golf course. Not on the hotel property right?

02-11-2005, 07:48 PM	#14
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	It's only cheating if you're using a device to count the cards, or using a team to do it. The casino dislikes card counters because they lose money to them. It's simple as that. What they usually do is attempt to distract them, raise the stakes, deal more frequently and sometimes close a table. They will ask a player to play a different game but they usually try to exhaust the other measures first. I got busted counting in a single deck game in Vegas a couple months back (single deck tables are a counters paradise). I wasn't confronted but they started witht he distractions (asking if I wanted a player card-quite often, dealer talking to me on a more frequent rate). Eventually they started shuffling after every hand. That's when I took the hint and gave them what they wanted by getting up. I wasn't that far ahead yet but I guess they wanted to nip it in the bud just in case it became something major.

02-11-2005, 08:15 PM	#16
panerd Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: St. Louis	So what if I take a hooker up to my room with one of these chips in my pocket? Will they radio the Las Vegas PD?

02-12-2005, 09:23 AM	#18
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	shit, if I want to count cards I'll go back to Four Queens and play $5 single deck again and make some money. sheesh.

02-16-2005, 10:30 PM	#22
ShaqFu H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: South Florida	The RFID will also make it easier for the casino host to track table play. IIRC, they already have devices that simply track the monetary value, but this takes it one step further. This will eliminate a common practice by blackjack players looking for comps. When the boss isn't looking, you bet low. When he's looking you bet a little higher. You mix it up in between. Your average is higher than it really is, only because the boss has to manually do the work. This pretty much will tie into the computers already at the tables. No more fooling the boss.

02-19-2005, 03:20 PM	#23
Craptacular College Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Mad City, WI	The course looks pretty close to the hotel. I thought I remember seeing a preview map of the resort (when it was still called La Reve) sometime ago, and that the pro shop was actually in the hotel, with the first tee right nearby. They're obviously not lying about rooms with a view of the 18th hole.

05-10-2005, 01:44 AM	#24
Galaxy Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2005	Kinda an old thread, but I was wondering if anyone visited the new resort? Is the hype worth it?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)