Nomar Garciaparra & the Cubs

maximus · 03-07-2005, 01:01 PM

I know he is still with the Cubs but how many yeasr did he sign for?

Draft Dodger · 03-07-2005, 01:03 PM

just a 1 year deal

Cuckoo · 03-07-2005, 01:13 PM

Yep, just one year. The thinking is that if he stays relatively healthy this year, he'll get a three or four year deal after the season is over. Hendry has a strict rule of never negotiating extensions during the regular season, but Nomar seems to be very happy in Chicago (so says old Mia as well), so I think he'll be there for a while (provided he stays healthy).

Draft Dodger · 03-07-2005, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Yep, just one year. The thinking is that if he stays relatively healthy this year, he'll get a three or four year deal after the season is over. Hendry has a strict rule of never negotiating extensions during the regular season, but Nomar seems to be very happy in Chicago (so says old Mia as well), so I think he'll be there for a while (provided he stays healthy).

Nomar seemed very happy in Boston too...

Cuckoo · 03-07-2005, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

Nomar seemed very happy in Boston too...

True enough. Until Boston tried to trade him...

Blackadar · 03-07-2005, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

True enough. Until Boston tried to trade him...

Not without justification.

$15m per year for 4 years and he turned it down. I'd trade him too.

rkmsuf · 03-07-2005, 01:27 PM

Nomar is a weird dude.

Cuckoo · 03-07-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Not without justification.

$15m per year for 4 years and he turned it down. I'd trade him too.

Agreed and so would I. But publically attempting to trade a player has a tendency to make them a bit uncomfortable.

I would think that if the Cubs ever began shopping him around, he wouldn't be too happy any longer in Chicago.

KevinNU7 · 03-07-2005, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Yep, just one year. The thinking is that if he stays relatively healthy this year, he'll get a three or four year deal after the season is over. Hendry has a strict rule of never negotiating extensions during the regular season, but Nomar seems to be very happy in Chicago (so says old Mia as well), so I think he'll be there for a while (provided he stays healthy).

If Nomar is productive this season I guarantee you he will not be back. He will without a doubt be playing in California

Cuckoo · 03-07-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinNU7

If Nomar is productive this season I guarantee you he will not be back. He will without a doubt be playing in California

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Anaheim reportedly offered him a multiyear deal that would have paid him on a yearly basis more than what the Cubs offered for just one year, but he chose Chicago. What makes you think he would suddenly change his mind? Now with Sosa gone, he's the big star in Chicago.

rkmsuf · 03-07-2005, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Anaheim reportedly offered him a multiyear deal that would have paid him on a yearly basis more than what the Cubs offered for just one year, but he chose Chicago. What makes you think he would suddenly change his mind? Now with Sosa gone, he's the big star in Chicago.

Again, he's a weird dude.

He's a California boy. My only guess is he's looking for big money based on a productive one year.

QuikSand · 03-07-2005, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Anaheim reportedly offered him a multiyear deal that would have paid him on a yearly basis more than what the Cubs offered for just one year, but he chose Chicago.

Well, there's two ways of looking at this. And I confess, I don't have any details of what offers he received.

Let's say Nomar believes he is a $15m/yr player, who is unfortunately coming off an injury spell, and is a bit under market.

As I recall, his deal with the Cubs is something like $8m for one year. Let's say that Anaheim offered him $10m a year for 4 years.

Nominally, Anaheim's deal is more per year than the Cubs deal was... but from his perspective, if he''s optimistic that he's past his injuries and will get back to his peak level -- then maybe he plays out his one year deal, and is back to a $15m/yr offer again. If he plays the following three years for $15m each, he comes out ahead -- $53m over the 4 years compared to $40 in the original deal.

I'm not saying that I believe he's right to be optimistic. And I won't even speculate on whether he's likely to be affected by "rule changes" this year... or as people are apparently describing it, "a new offseason regimen." But there is some general widson in *not* locking yourself in when your value is at a trough.

Cuckoo · 03-07-2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Well, there's two ways of looking at this. And I confess, I don't have any details of what offers he received.

Let's say Nomar believes he is a $15m/yr player, who is unfortunately coming off an injury spell, and is a bit under market.

As I recall, his deal with the Cubs is something like $8m for one year. Let's say that Anaheim offered him $10m a year for 4 years.

Nominally, Anaheim's deal is more per year than the Cubs deal was... but from his perspective, if he''s optimistic that he's past his injuries and will get back to his peak level -- then maybe he plays out his one year deal, and is back to a $15m/yr offer again. If he plays the following three years for $15m each, he comes out ahead -- $53m over the 4 years compared to $40 in the original deal.

I'm not saying that I believe he's right to be optimistic. And I won't even speculate on whether he's likely to be affected by "rule changes" this year... or as people are apparently describing it, "a new offseason regimen." But there is some general widson in *not* locking yourself in when your value is at a trough.

Well, that makes complete and total sense, and I don't know all the details of Anaheim's offer either. But I would think that if the Angels wanted him as badly as they seemed to have (according to the rumor mill), wouldn't they have been willing to give him a one year deal as well? And if so, wouldn't it have been better for Nomar to prove himself there for a year and hope to get more money from them?

Again, I don't know all of the particulars, and people clearly have their own opinions of Nomar. I have no idea what he'll do, and only time will tell. But I would guess that if he has a good season, the Cubs will make him a fairly sizable three to four year offer, and he'll stick around.

CentralMassHokie · 03-07-2005, 03:43 PM

Hard to believe Nomar will end up in Southern Cal now -- with Anaheim grossly overpaying Cabrera to be their SS for the next 4 seasons, and the Dodgers probably not having a lot of money to spend.

I've always thought Nomar would end up in Seattle. They're spending loads of money, it's on the West Coast, and I think they get out from under a couple of deals after this season.

Nomar's going to be a huge bargain for the Cubs -- he'll easily be one of the steals of the 2004/5 Free Agent class. And that's coming from someone who isn't a huge Nomar fan because of his desire to not improve his approach to hitting.

McSweeny · 03-07-2005, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CentralMassHokie

Hard to believe Nomar will end up in Southern Cal now -- with Anaheim grossly overpaying Cabrera to be their SS for the next 4 seasons, and the Dodgers probably not having a lot of money to spend.

I've always thought Nomar would end up in Seattle. They're spending loads of money, it's on the West Coast, and I think they get out from under a couple of deals after this season.

Nomar's going to be a huge bargain for the Cubs -- he'll easily be one of the steals of the 2004/5 Free Agent class. And that's coming from someone who isn't a huge Nomar fan because of his desire to not improve his approach to hitting.

[SARCASM]
yep, i agree. His approach to hitting that led to him hittin .372 in 2000 and .322 w/ a .370 OBP for his career reallllly needed to be improved
[/SARCASM]

mhass · 03-07-2005, 03:54 PM

Conventional wisdom is that he wanted one year in a "big market" to draw the money from other teams. Anaheim's offer was rejected because he's looking for the money on the periphery as well and WGN will help him get that. The comment about Sosa shouldn't be discounted either. He liked Cub fans and will really like them until they decide to turn on him too.

Cuckoo · 03-07-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhass

He liked Cub fans and will really like them until they decide to turn on him too.

Yeah, corking your bat, huge drop-offs in numbers, selfishness, and blowing off the team usually makes fans turn against guys, regardless of whether they're Cubs fans.

SoxWin · 03-07-2005, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Agreed and so would I. But publically attempting to trade a player has a tendency to make them a bit uncomfortable.

Depends on the player I'd assume. Manny did just fine last year.

Maple Leafs · 03-07-2005, 05:00 PM

Does anyone else think that Nomar will be one of those players who has an, um, unexplained drop in power this year?

Cuckoo · 03-07-2005, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Does anyone else think that Nomar will be one of those players who has an, um, unexplained drop in power this year?

Man... the Cubs get rid of one guy with steroids rumors around him. Now, Maple Leafs is starting the rumors on another...

CentralMassHokie · 03-07-2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSweeny

[SARCASM]
yep, i agree. His approach to hitting that led to him hittin .372 in 2000 and .322 w/ a .370 OBP for his career reallllly needed to be improved
[/SARCASM]

He didn't need a change in approach before the wrist injury, but he doesn't have the strength or reflexes he did before Al Reyes busted him up.

Since the injury, his line drive % and walk rates have dropped. He is still a phenomenal hitter (and I wanted the Sox to try and get him back for a deal similar to the Cubs deal), but he's never going to be the dominant hitter he was in 99/00 until he starts being a little more patient and waiting for a pitch he can rip.

McSweeny · 03-07-2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CentralMassHokie

He didn't need a change in approach before the wrist injury, but he doesn't have the strength or reflexes he did before Al Reyes busted him up.

Since the injury, his line drive % and walk rates have dropped. He is still a phenomenal hitter (and I wanted the Sox to try and get him back for a deal similar to the Cubs deal), but he's never going to be the dominant hitter he was in 99/00 until he starts being a little more patient and waiting for a pitch he can rip.

oh i know. I agree with you actually. I just hear people bitching about him not being selective enough during his time in Boston and it makes me wonder if they even remember how damn good the pre-injury Nomar was

maximus · 03-07-2005, 09:44 PM

As a Cubs fan I am glad he stayed around but I don't put to much into what Nomar says since he did say that he liked it in Boston too.

KWhit · 03-07-2005, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Does anyone else think that Nomar will be one of those players who has an, um, unexplained drop in power this year?

No. Even if he was roiding in the past, there are still ways to continue to do it and not get caught.

Maple Leafs · 03-07-2005, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWhit

No. Even if he was roiding in the past, there are still ways to continue to do it and not get caught.

Someone should tell Ivan Rodriguez.

Chief Rum · 03-07-2005, 11:18 PM

Overpaid or not, I am plenty happy we ended up with Cabrera. Even a down Nomar is probably better offensively than Cabrera at his best at the plate, but what we really needed was a top notch defensive shortstop to help a staff that relies on a lot of ground ball pitchers (Washburn, Lackey, Byrd). Cabrera is going to open some Angels' fans eyes when they see him go to the hoel where Eck (God bless him) never dwelled, and make long throws from short left field that actually go to the first baseman in a straight line.

There were a lot of rumors about what the Angels offered Nomar, but I never saw $10 M per. I think the top offer I saw was $8-9 M per for 3 years with an option for a fourth. You know how rumors go--we are also supposed to have offered Beltran $17 M for six years at one point.

I do think we overspent for Cabrera, but I think that's going to happen in a free agent market where Renteria gets $10 M, and mediocre pitchers (Millwood? Milton? Benson?) get $7 M-plus.

CR

CentralMassHokie · 03-08-2005, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Overpaid or not, I am plenty happy we ended up with Cabrera. Even a down Nomar is probably better offensively than Cabrera at his best at the plate, but what we really needed was a top notch defensive shortstop to help a staff that relies on a lot of ground ball pitchers (Washburn, Lackey, Byrd). Cabrera is going to open some Angels' fans eyes when they see him go to the hoel where Eck (God bless him) never dwelled, and make long throws from short left field that actually go to the first baseman in a straight line.

There were a lot of rumors about what the Angels offered Nomar, but I never saw $10 M per. I think the top offer I saw was $8-9 M per for 3 years with an option for a fourth. You know how rumors go--we are also supposed to have offered Beltran $17 M for six years at one point.

I do think we overspent for Cabrera, but I think that's going to happen in a free agent market where Renteria gets $10 M, and mediocre pitchers (Millwood? Milton? Benson?) get $7 M-plus.

CR

You're going to be very unhappy when you find out that Cabrera looks a lot better than he actually is.

He just doesn't have a whole lot of range since his back injury. Pretty middle of the road in all of the major defensive metrics.

OCab is a fun guy to watch, but he's just not the Gold Glover that he was before his back injury. Better than Eckstein? Yeah. No doubt.

mhass · 03-08-2005, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Yeah, corking your bat, huge drop-offs in numbers, selfishness, and blowing off the team usually makes fans turn against guys, regardless of whether they're Cubs fans.

Not just Sosa. The fans were completely justified in dumping on him. Chicago fans (and I'm one) love to make heros and tear them down. Remember Ditka's last years? How about Mark Grace? Willie Gault? Dick Jauron? Leon Durham? Lee Smith? I liked all those guys, but lots of people were calling for their ouster. Interestingly, none except Smith had the type of years outside Chicago they had in. Sosa is likely to be the same way, if only for age (and the attention to steroids).

Cuckoo · 03-08-2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhass

Not just Sosa. The fans were completely justified in dumping on him. Chicago fans (and I'm one) love to make heros and tear them down. Remember Ditka's last years? How about Mark Grace? Willie Gault? Dick Jauron? Leon Durham? Lee Smith? I liked all those guys, but lots of people were calling for their ouster. Interestingly, none except Smith had the type of years outside Chicago they had in. Sosa is likely to be the same way, if only for age (and the attention to steroids).

I get your point. I've never lived in Chicago. I'm just a Cubs fan because of WGN as a kid.

But I still love Mark Grace and Lee Smith. And I still have a lot of respect for what Sosa did in his years with Chicago. I just thought that after all that happened, it was time for him to move on.

03-07-2005, 01:03 PM	#2
Draft Dodger Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Keene, NH	just a 1 year deal __________________ Mile High Hockey

03-07-2005, 01:13 PM	#3
Cuckoo College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edmond, OK	Yep, just one year. The thinking is that if he stays relatively healthy this year, he'll get a three or four year deal after the season is over. Hendry has a strict rule of never negotiating extensions during the regular season, but Nomar seems to be very happy in Chicago (so says old Mia as well), so I think he'll be there for a while (provided he stays healthy). __________________ Commissioner - North American Football League Dallas Cowboys GM Last edited by Cuckoo : 03-07-2005 at 01:13 PM.

03-07-2005, 01:27 PM	#7
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Nomar is a weird dude. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

03-07-2005, 03:54 PM	#16
mhass High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Here	Conventional wisdom is that he wanted one year in a "big market" to draw the money from other teams. Anaheim's offer was rejected because he's looking for the money on the periphery as well and WGN will help him get that. The comment about Sosa shouldn't be discounted either. He liked Cub fans and will really like them until they decide to turn on him too. __________________ Now while I wasn't able to cut everyone I wanted to, I have cut a lot of you. - H.J.S.

03-07-2005, 05:00 PM	#19
Maple Leafs Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002	Does anyone else think that Nomar will be one of those players who has an, um, unexplained drop in power this year? __________________ Down Goes Brown: Toronto Maple Leafs Humor and Analysis

03-07-2005, 03:43 PM	#14
CentralMassHokie High School JV Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Massachusetts	Hard to believe Nomar will end up in Southern Cal now -- with Anaheim grossly overpaying Cabrera to be their SS for the next 4 seasons, and the Dodgers probably not having a lot of money to spend. I've always thought Nomar would end up in Seattle. They're spending loads of money, it's on the West Coast, and I think they get out from under a couple of deals after this season. Nomar's going to be a huge bargain for the Cubs -- he'll easily be one of the steals of the 2004/5 Free Agent class. And that's coming from someone who isn't a huge Nomar fan because of his desire to not improve his approach to hitting.

03-07-2005, 09:44 PM	#23
maximus Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Where the system is screwed	As a Cubs fan I am glad he stayed around but I don't put to much into what Nomar says since he did say that he liked it in Boston too.

03-07-2005, 11:18 PM	#26
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Overpaid or not, I am plenty happy we ended up with Cabrera. Even a down Nomar is probably better offensively than Cabrera at his best at the plate, but what we really needed was a top notch defensive shortstop to help a staff that relies on a lot of ground ball pitchers (Washburn, Lackey, Byrd). Cabrera is going to open some Angels' fans eyes when they see him go to the hoel where Eck (God bless him) never dwelled, and make long throws from short left field that actually go to the first baseman in a straight line. There were a lot of rumors about what the Angels offered Nomar, but I never saw $10 M per. I think the top offer I saw was $8-9 M per for 3 years with an option for a fourth. You know how rumors go--we are also supposed to have offered Beltran $17 M for six years at one point. I do think we overspent for Cabrera, but I think that's going to happen in a free agent market where Renteria gets $10 M, and mediocre pitchers (Millwood? Milton? Benson?) get $7 M-plus. CR __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

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