Government Provides Free Heroin

[Fritz]

Vancouver Tries Free Heroin Program
Well, not the US govt.

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_frien...150076,00.html

Monday, March 14, 2005



VANCOUVER, British Columbia — Just over the United States northwest border, addicts will soon be able to get their fix from the Canadian government in the form of free heroin (search) administered by nurses and doctors on the taxpayer's dime.

"They're using heroin. They'll continue to use heroin. What we're trying to do is prevent them from getting something irreversible like HIV, hep [hepatitis] C and overdose death,” said Dr. Martin Schechter, the director of the heroin program.

Vancouver is the first city to take part in the North American Opiate Medication Initiative, which plans to enroll 470 participants at three sites in Canada. The Toronto and Montreal sites are expected to begin recruiting candidates this spring.

Vancouver Police Chief Jamie Graham (search) is among supporters who say the heroin giveaway will let junkies shoot up without having to resort to theft or prostitution to buy their drugs. Breaking that cycle of crime, they argue, is the first step toward turning an addict's life around.

“I’m not a medical expert, this is not my field. I'm an expert in public safety," Graham said. "And if this will help reduce the crime rate — I'm all for it."

In the program all addicts have to do to get their fix is show up three times a day seven days a week.

Junkies offered different views of the program to FOX News. Some think it's the government's way of killing them, while others say they can't wait for the free dope. But none of them thought it would eventually get them clean.

"I think it would lower the crime rate. Nobody's gonna be robbing each other. Nobody's going to be sick enough to rob each other. All be taken care of. Free dope, woo-hoo,” said heroin addict Olivia Edgars.

Recovered addict Chuck Swesey - who's been clean 20 years - says the program smacks of government drug pushing. He says he knows how he would've ended under a program like this: "I'd be dead ... or I'd be in a jail or an institution."

The $8 million Canadian program is patterned after similar efforts in Europe.

[Ksyrup]

Just bizarre...

So this is meant to reduce the intentional crime rate, but what about the crimes committed while hopped up on goofballs? Or do they lock these people in padded cells until the drugs wear off? What about the effect of this on their lives? Do they really think people can just do drugs for a couple of hours a day and go back to being productive members of society?

What they hell are these people smoking?

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Just bizarre...

So this is meant to reduce the intentional crime rate, but what about the crimes committed while hopped up on goofballs? Or do they lock these people in padded cells until the drugs wear off? What about the effect of this on their lives? Do they really think people can just do drugs for a couple of hours a day and go back to being productive members of society?

What they hell are these people smoking?

Actually, according to the article, the primary purpose of this program is to reduce the occurences of HIV and Hepatitis from sharing needles. It looks like a cost-benefit thing where they are saying that yeah they're addicts, but they would be an even bigger burden to the system (financial and otherwise) if they required treatment for HIV/AIDS. That sounds pretty reasonable to me...

[Fritz]

or they could just die. that is pretty reasonable too.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Fritz

or they could just die. that is pretty reasonable too.

It's the "Terri Schiavo" era in Washington--presumption in favor of life, remember? Or does that only count if you are Terri Schiavo?

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Fritz

or they could just die. that is pretty reasonable too.

Problem is, death by heroin takes a while, and in the meantime the addict is just a drain on the economy. This way they are making them less of a drain.

I guess.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Man, Canada is wack......... What are they going to do next, give little kids to Child Molesters..... The whole situtation is messed up, they need to rethink their beliefs...

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by A-Husker-4-Life

Man, Canada is wack......... What are they going to do next, give little kids to Child Molesters..... The whole situtation is messed up, they need to rethink their beliefs...

Well, this program is a very European way of tackling the issue. As for Canadian beliefs--in many ways they are more European than American, and I am sure they like it just fine...

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by A-Husker-4-Life

Man, Canada is wack......... What are they going to do next, give little kids to Child Molesters..... The whole situtation is messed up, they need to rethink their beliefs...

Its an understanding that the war on drugs is primarily a bunch of horseshit.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by A-Husker-4-Life

Man, Canada is wack......... What are they going to do next, give little kids to Child Molesters..... The whole situtation is messed up, they need to rethink their beliefs...

Will No One Think Of The Children!!!

[Maple Leafs]

In my last year of college I shot a documentary about a methadone clinic, the doctors running it, and the people who used it. My partner and I spent a year working on the project and interviewed dozens of participants.

I tend towards the conservative side of things and this is the sort of story that would normally fill me with the pleasant glow of righteous indignation, but having actually talked to the sort of people who would support or even rely on this sort of program, I'm not convinced it's the wrong approach.

Keep in mind that while heroin is certainly used as a recreational drug, a significant number of addicts actually get hooked as a natural progression from an addiction to painkillers, not because they're looking for something fun to do on weekends. Many of the people I spoke to suffered some sort of serious injury (work-related accidents, car crashes, even a woman who swallowed bleach as a child). Their doctors prescribe them a steadily increasing dosasge of painkillers throughout their lives, then declare them cured and cut off the treatment. These people don't enjoy being high -- rather, being high is the only time they're not in agonizing pain. And the withdrawal symptoms are absolutely horrific.

It goes without saying that providing free heroin is a significant step up from free methadone. But in my direct experience (which I'll grant you is limited but will wager is probably significantly greater than most participants in this thread), the sort of people who will use these programs desparately want to be clean. They are acutely aware of what drugs are doing to their lives and the lives of their friends and family. They spend a lot of time talking about what their life was like before they got hooked. But they will also acknowledge without hesitation that they will lie, cheat, steal or worse to get a fix rather than go through withdrawal. They don't want to, and they don't have to if clinics are available, but they will.

Clinics for opiate addicts are among the most depressing places you can imagine being. Nobody will be going there for a good time.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Actually, according to the article, the primary purpose of this program is to reduce the occurences of HIV and Hepatitis from sharing needles. It looks like a cost-benefit thing where they are saying that yeah they're addicts, but they would be an even bigger burden to the system (financial and otherwise) if they required treatment for HIV/AIDS. That sounds pretty reasonable to me...

One coment about HIV issues, the rest is about preventing crime. Re: the health issues, you're essentially trading one method death for another, both of which have costs associated with them that are borne by the government. My problem is that the government is siding with the completely unnecessary method of death - the choice to do drugs - and is encouraging and sponsoring such activity.

[sovereignstar]

Raise your hand if you've ever done heroine!

Didn't think so. Nice shoes you wear.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by A-Husker-4-Life

Man, Canada is wack......... What are they going to do next, give little kids to Child Molesters..... The whole situtation is messed up, they need to rethink their beliefs...

Looks like this thread is going pretty much as planned.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by police chief

Breaking that cycle of crime, they argue, is the first step toward turning an addict's life around.

In my mind, this statement is the real point of debate here.

[ISiddiqui]

Vancouver ::thumbs up::

Now to end this whole "War on Drugs" crap.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

In my mind, this statement is the real point of debate here.

And IMO, that statement is akin to suggesting that if you stop kids from listening to gangsta rap and heavy metal, it's the first step to turning their bad family lives around. They've got the cause-and-effect reversed.

[rkmsuf]

do first times users get a sticker or something from the clinic?

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

One coment about HIV issues, the rest is about preventing crime. Re: the health issues, you're essentially trading one method death for another, both of which have costs associated with them that are borne by the government. My problem is that the government is siding with the completely unnecessary method of death - the choice to do drugs - and is encouraging and sponsoring such activity.

Okay, that is a fair point about it just not being a health but a crime prevention issue.

As for your assertion that the government is trading one method of death for another, yes that might be true from a values standpoint. But from a cost-effectiveness standpoint, I would venture to guess that servicing and regulating the heroin consumption of someone who is already an addict and providing her with clean needles is ultimately more cost-effective than having to treat her for HIV/AIDS and expending police, insurance, and other resources in handling crimes that the addict would otherwise commit.

[A-Husker-4-Life]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

do first times users get a sticker or something from the clinic?

Yeah, I think a Gold Star....

But seriously, Heroin must be some very wicked stuff to get over if the government is willing to go to this extreme...

[rkmsuf]

If I'm in the mood can I substitute herion with cocaine? I mean that seems resonable if I can get either fries, chili or salad as a side item in my value meal.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Raise your hand if you've ever done heroine!

Didn't think so. Nice shoes you wear.

Hah. I fucked Linda Carter. So, yes, I have done a heroine.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Okay, that is a fair point about it just not being a health but a crime prevention issue.

As for your assertion that the government is trading one method of death for another, yes that might be true from a values standpoint. But from a cost-effectiveness standpoint, I would venture to guess that servicing and regulating the heroin consumption of someone who is already an addict and providing her with clean needles is ultimately more cost-effective than having to treat her for HIV/AIDS and expending police, insurance, and other resources in handling crimes that the addict would otherwise commit.

Even if that is true, what about the societal costs that aren't necessarily dollar-driven and can't be priced? For instance, the "cost" to society of raising kids who think it's OK to become heroin addicts, because if they lose control, the government will keep their habit going for them. Isn't this sending the wrong message? Isn't it worth spending a bit more, as a society, to treat people from the health side of things, in order to take a stand against activities that are harmful to oneself and to others? To advocate a lifestyle in which the chances of keeping your job and your family together are not adversely affected?

Or am I crazy?

[Lathum]

I wonder how many addicts will be moving to Vancouver

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Even if that is true, what about the societal costs that aren't necessarily dollar-driven and can't be priced? For instance, the "cost" to society of raising kids who think it's OK to become heroin addicts, because if they lose control, the government will keep their habit going for them. Isn't this sending the wrong message? Isn't it worth spending a bit more, as a society, to treat people from the health side of things, in order to take a stand against activities that are harmful to oneself and to others? To advocate a lifestyle in which the chances of keeping your job and your family together are not adversely affected?

Or am I crazy?

No, you're not crazy.

[Desnudo]

Why not just keep them on large quantities of acid? Much cheaper and the same outcome - used up person.

[Fritz]

Did some other search and I read a BBC story about this program in Switzerland. One of the partispants lauded the program because now (as a user) he could hold a job, pay his bills, and regained custody of his children.

Also, it seems like people were using, and then leaving high.

In another article the WHO posed the (unanswered) question about the source of any success the program had. What it the Free/clean heroin, or was it the suite of services that came along with it.

[Miller Time]

I remember hearing about this clinic a few years ago. From what I understand, a heroin addict cannot just come in, shoot up, and leave. They have to undergo a specific amount of counselling each time they go and if I'm not mistaken, they are required to stay there for a particular time period when they have been given the drug. Also, the people working at the clinic keep track of the amount of heroin you are receiving and try and gradually reduce the dosage so you are not as dependent on it.

I know Vancouver has some real shady drug infested areas, so I can't see the clinic being any worse for those areas than they already are.

Just my two cents.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Hah. I fucked Linda Carter. So, yes, I have done a heroine.

Even if no one else is laughing, I thought it was funny.

SI

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Hah. I fucked Clarence Carter.

Did you put it in his .... woooooooooo.

[Fritz]

dola

Franklinnoble Franklinnoble Franklinnoble
oh, shit Franklinnoble

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Even if no one else is laughing, I thought it was funny.

SI

I didn't think anyone else had noticed.