POKER: Another Tournament hand for Discussion

[Radii]

There are 15 people left in the pokerstars WSOP super-satellite. This was a $25+$2 Rebuy tourney. You have $52 invested, if this matters.

There were 41 entrants. 15 remain. 4th will pay $450, while the top 3 will win a satellite entry into a Sunday WSOP qualifier worth $650.

PokerStars Game #1494459637: Tournament #6681512, Hold'em No Limit - Level VI
(100/200) - 2005/04/09 - 02:27:07 (ET)
Table '6681512 5' Seat #8 is the button

Seat 1: 1eyeJ (3140 in chips)
Seat 3: pelegrine (9335 in chips)
Seat 4: vasellv` (4207 in chips)
Seat 5: 1montanaslim (7585 in chips)
Seat 7: LimeJello (13965 in chips)
Seat 8: El Perrito (20125 in chips)
Seat 9: radii (16215 in chips)
radii: posts small blind 100
1eyeJ: posts big blind 200

I am to the left of the table leader. I am 2nd high at the table and we have been stealing a lot of pots between us. I have played with him/back at him a couple of times. I have not shown down a bluff yet but everyone knows I've been making them since I have been stealing a lot.

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to radii [Js Jd]
pelegrine: calls 200
vasellv`: calls 200
1montanaslim: calls 200
LimeJello: folds
El Perrito: raises 600 to 800
radii: ??

This is an odd hand. 3 open limps, the table has been tight, not going to the flop too often and very rarely seeing a showdown. I face a 4x BB raise with 3 to follow behind me. What do I do with my jacks?

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Radii

What do I do with my jacks?

Go for a high bounce and try to sweep them all.

[QuikSand]

The fact that it's one of the few bigger stacks facing you is bad for your JJ. Early limping can mean any number of things -- including a monster hand. (I have lost in no fewer than four multi-table tournaments in the last few weeks to this exact move - it's like I'm being followed around by guys holding aces under the gun) So, maybe it's my paranoia here, but my inclination is to either cold call the 800, or else double that amount -- but stil remain open to folding preflop if there is a big move elsewhere.

[primelord]

I would just call this and then evaluate your options on the flop. A re-raise likely eliminates the limpers, but then you risk being put all-in and I don't think you can call that. However if you call it's likely the limpers will call as well (at least one or two of them) and the pot will be laying you plenty to try and spike a J or catch a flop of all under cards.

Edit: I didn't mean to quote the original hand.

[Subby]

I like Primelord's line here...

[TLK]

You know better.... you never play JJ

[dixieflatline]

I agree with Primelord folding if a limper reraises.

[Radii]

PokerStars Game #1494459637: Tournament #6681512, Hold'em No Limit - Level VI
(100/200) - 2005/04/09 - 02:27:07 (ET)
Table '6681512 5' Seat #8 is the button

Seat 1: 1eyeJ (3140 in chips)
Seat 3: pelegrine (9335 in chips)
Seat 4: vasellv` (4207 in chips)
Seat 5: 1montanaslim (7585 in chips)
Seat 7: LimeJello (13965 in chips)
Seat 8: El Perrito (20125 in chips)
Seat 9: radii (16215 in chips)
radii: posts small blind 100
1eyeJ: posts big blind 200

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to radii [Js Jd]
pelegrine: calls 200
vasellv`: calls 200
1montanaslim: calls 200
LimeJello: folds
El Perrito: raises 600 to 800
radii: calls 700
1eyeJ: calls 600
pelegrine: calls 600
vasellv`: folds
1montanaslim: calls 600


So, the big blind + two limpers call. pot is ~$4200 if I'm counting right.

*** FLOP *** [8d Jh 7h]
radii: checks
1eyeJ: checks
pelegrine: checks
1montanaslim: bets 6785 and is all-in
El Perrito: raises 12540 to 19325 and is all-in
radii: ???

Easy call or with two all ins do you have to start to fear the nuts?

[QuikSand]

Easy call. You have many outs, even if you are behind the straight.

[dixieflatline]

easy call. If someone has 9T you have lots of outs.

edit: Damn I'm slow.

[QuikSand]

El p looks like he has an overpair... first all-in might be stealing, might have a lower set, or who knows, might have the straight.

Of course, if everything works out for you, there's probably no point in posting it... but good luck. Don't you dare lay that down.

[primelord]

Yup easy call.

[Subby]

montanaslim is on some type of draw, el p has QQ...

I don't think it is humanly possible to call this as fast as is warranted

[primelord]

It's highly unlikely El Perrito has T9. so even if you know for certain montanaslim does have T9 you should call this. You will still finish with more chips from the side pot.

[Radii]

hah, the first part was obviously the more interesting part but as someone who doesn't play enough tournaments to look at anything as too clearly obvious, I wanted to pose the question anyway.

*** FLOP *** [8d Jh 7h]
radii: checks
1eyeJ: checks
pelegrine: checks
1montanaslim: bets 6785 and is all-in
El Perrito: raises 12540 to 19325 and is all-in
radii: calls 15415 and is all-in
1eyeJ: folds
pelegrine: folds
*** TURN *** [8d Jh 7h] [8h]
*** RIVER *** [8d Jh 7h 8h] [8c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
radii: shows [Js Jd] (a full house, Jacks full of Eights)
El Perrito: shows [9s 9h] (a full house, Eights full of Nines)
radii collected 17260 from side pot
1montanaslim: shows [9d Ad] (three of a kind, Eights)
radii collected 24555 from main pot


This hand gave me over 40K in chips and put me at 2x the stack of anyone else in the tournament. I coasted to the last 6, building my stack up to 50K before losing a bit with JJ vs KK(I lost about 15K but was still the chipleader at 35K with 7 left at that point).

And that is what led to my I hate the internet post from Sunday, when I blinded out when my cable died for over a half hour, but I thought this was a pretty interesting pre-flop hand.

[sabotai]

Got ot wonder what the hell 1montanaslim was thinking...long shot flush draw and a straight draw and he pushes all-in. Guess he was just trying to buy it. You'd think that he wouldn't thought he was ahead at that point.

[primelord]

Originally Posted by Radii

but I thought this was a pretty interesting pre-flop hand.

Agreed. I actually don't think many otherwise solid players cold call enough in NL games. It is drilled into everyone so much that cold calling is such an evil in a limit game (which it usually is) that they carry that over into NL situations. However your implied odds are so much better in NL games that it is correct far more often to cold call.